Sony Product Announcement - 26/01/21

[Emanuel]

Seems the same for compressed XAVC-I.

[Video Hummus]

13 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

I don't like that it has no articulating screen as is much better imo for gimbal like ronin S etc..

I don't mind the non articulating screen that much. Panasonic still has the best screen implementation giving everybody what they prefer in the S1H.

2 hours ago, gt3rs said:

It seems a very solid and interesting release but as always devil is in the details:

- 8k max 30min... 4:2:0 only, this we know
- 4k FF is it oversampled or binned/line skipped? S35 they mention is oversampled from 5.8k but no mention for FF
- 4k 120 FF is 10% crop
- 30fps still shooting seems jpg only, still RAW is max 20fps
- mechanical shutter max 10fps, for sport with LED not great

 

Yes, the fact they didn't mention that the FF 4K is uber-oversampled from 8.4k probably means it isn't. That being said, Sony's pixel-binning has been excellent. Lack of DCI always stings, especially at this price point. All I shoot is DCI now because I've been using 2:1 more and more. The lack of mechanical shutter performance is very, very strange.

I would have liked to seen an internal RAW option. Even though the R5's internal RAW is crippled its vastly better to shoot internal without a stupid external recorder. Last weekend I shot some RAW in freezing rain and snow. Would have had to rigged something stupid up if I had to use an external recorder. Also, why the camera companies don't charge a few more $10 of dollars for a proper, bright OLED rear display is beyond me. It's in the EVFs, put it on the back screen please. Now that is revolutionary!

[IronFilm]

5 hours ago, Elias said:

There is no doubt this is one incredibly amazing camera, and if any vendor could manage to sell something similar under $2,000, they’d own the market.

But at this price point this is way out of most people’s pockets and squarely into the Pro territory it is obviously aimed at.

I wonder if the market is ripe for a new vendor to come in and do something great at an irresistible price point (RED was my hope for that a few years back, then BlackMagic Design)...

Z Cam is doing that, with their Z Cam E2-M4 for only US$1.5K, the E2-S6 etc
BMD isn't shabby either with the value they offer us with the P4K etc

[DWX]

So I can get 30 min 8k raw with the latest firmware on my R5 with crappy heat dissipation and Sony is giving you 30 min with superior heat management, less resolution, 420 and only 400Mbps.  The R5 bitrate is 2600mpbs & 1300 for HEVC, so that lowering the bitrate option should help significantly with the record times.   Really puts in perspective how versatile the R5 is, even though they blew the initial execution.  Glad the Canon pushed the envelope and Sony answered.  Looking forward to see what the new firmware bring...

[Caleb Genheimer]

Still basically only Panny that’s doing real open gate full frame video, don’t understand why nobody else will put those modes in their flagships. Here’s hoping they get their act together whenever the S2H rolls around and it has actual autofocus though. 

[ND64]

8 hours ago, Emanuel said:

There's a big difference to not compete with the R5:

...it's not crippled.

Not completely. 8k HDMI output is 8bit only. Full frame 4k is pixel binned at all frame rates. 

[jgharding]

Since the small fan in the S1H works so well, i do wonder why no other manufacturer does this to alleviate overheating. It adds a little size, but it's a great idea...

[herein2020]

8 minutes ago, jgharding said:

Since the small fan in the S1H works so well, i do wonder why no other manufacturer does this to alleviate overheating. It adds a little size, but it's a great idea...

Probably multiple reasons, not the least of which is the size. The S1H is huge and I get the feeling that the sales numbers were pretty low, probably mainly due to the new lens mount and AF, but the size probably didn't help (the S5 is proof that people are willing to accept limitations as long as the body is smaller).

Also, these cameras are marketed as hybrids, a fan in a hybrid would make it less a hybrid and more a dedicated video body. Let's not forget as well that every other maker still needs to protect their cinema line in some way....only Panasonic seems to really throw every single thing they can into their bodies.

Last but not least, fans add complexity, drain the battery, and affect the weather sealing, none of which hybrid shooters want to deal with.

 

[BTM_Pix]

Still don't understand why they don't just make an optional combined battery grip and fan system for video use.

For a start, moving the batteries out of the main body and into the grip would alleviate some of the internal heat.

An exhaust system could then be incorporated into the connecting stork of the battery grip that opens up an aperture in the battery chamber of the camera with fans in the grip taking care of cooling.

That would maintain the weather sealing and satisfy stills shooters who don't want to pay for any extra video oriented features that they will rarely use, particularly ones that add bulk and noise.

And of course, anyone who is using this camera for video is going to need all the battery power they can so its a win win for them.

Of course, when I say I don't understand why Sony don't do this, I mean from the customer's perspective but from their own point of view I think its pretty obvious why they don't.

[Nerv]

More than a C70 or Komodo...which of the 3 would you chose for video work...

[SteveV4D]

4 minutes ago, Nerv said:

More than a C70 or Komodo...which of the 3 would you chose for video work...

Those going for this camera, I imagine are hybrid shooters.  I'm not one, so I won't go anyway near it.  I'm impressed by it, though it has some key video deficiencies.  As expected for a hybrid camera.  Then again, the C70 can't output RAW, which this camera can, so its give and take.  

For video only work, it would seem silly to invest this much in a hybrid.  My personal thoughts, but maybe others will feel differently.  

I would welcome manufacturers looking at more smaller video only cameras, rather than hybrids.  BM has the Pockets, Canon has the C70.  Panasonic have done a box camera, but something more like the C70 would be a winner for me if done to the same standards as the S1H.  I'm not sure I see Sony offering something like the C70, but maybe....

[JurijTurnsek]

16 hours ago, gt3rs said:

It seems a very solid and interesting release but as always devil is in the details:

- 8k max 30min... 4:2:0 only, this we know
- 4k FF is it oversampled or binned/line skipped? S35 they mention is oversampled from 5.8k but no mention for FF
- 4k 120 FF is 10% crop
- 30fps still shooting seems jpg only, still RAW is max 20fps
- mechanical shutter max 10fps, for sport with LED not great

 

30 fps is lossy compress raw. Seems like they could've done RAW video in some limited form. I wonder why they even designed the sensor to capture 8.6K and not a simple 8K image like Canon did. Seem counter-intuitive.

[gt3rs]

54 minutes ago, JurijTurnsek said:

30 fps is lossy compress raw. Seems like they could've done RAW video in some limited form. I wonder why they even designed the sensor to capture 8.6K and not a simple 8K image like Canon did. Seem counter-intuitive.

From the spec:

[ii] “Hi+” continuous shooting mode. In focus modes other than AF-C, effective at 1/125 sec. or higher shutter speed. In AF-C mode, effective at 1/250 sec. or higher shutter speed, and the maximum continuous frame rate will depend on the shooting mode and lens used. 20 fps max. when shooting Uncompressed or Lossless compressed RAW.

[JurijTurnsek]

1 hour ago, gt3rs said:

From the spec:

[ii] “Hi+” continuous shooting mode. In focus modes other than AF-C, effective at 1/125 sec. or higher shutter speed. In AF-C mode, effective at 1/250 sec. or higher shutter speed, and the maximum continuous frame rate will depend on the shooting mode and lens used. 20 fps max. when shooting Uncompressed or Lossless compressed RAW.

Yes, the 30 fps is LOSSY compression not LOSSLESS. That is the compressed RAW that all Sonys did until now (A1 is the first with LOSSLESS compressed RAW).

[Video Hummus]

12 hours ago, DWX said:

So I can get 30 min 8k raw with the latest firmware on my R5 with crappy heat dissipation and Sony is giving you 30 min with superior heat management, less resolution, 420 and only 400Mbps.  The R5 bitrate is 2600mpbs & 1300 for HEVC, so that lowering the bitrate option should help significantly with the record times.   Really puts in perspective how versatile the R5 is, even though they blew the initial execution.  Glad the Canon pushed the envelope and Sony answered.  Looking forward to see what the new firmware bring...

Yeah, same story here. I've been exhausting multiple CFExpress cards 8K HEVC before any overheating. Granted, this is 4C to 5C weather at the moment. Really looking forward to the new firmware update...soon.

[Video Hummus]

5 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

Still don't understand why they don't just make an optional combined battery grip and fan system for video use.

For a start, moving the batteries out of the main body and into the grip would alleviate some of the internal heat.

An exhaust system could then be incorporated into the connecting stork of the battery grip that opens up an aperture in the battery chamber of the camera with fans in the grip taking care of cooling.

That would maintain the weather sealing and satisfy stills shooters who don't want to pay for any extra video oriented features that they will rarely use, particularly ones that add bulk and noise.

And of course, anyone who is using this camera for video is going to need all the battery power they can so its a win win for them.

Of course, when I say I don't understand why Sony don't do this, I mean from the customer's perspective but from their own point of view I think its pretty obvious why they don't.

Well as we have seen, even a small copper heat sink change in the R5 pushes past A7SIII overheating performance. We have heat pipe technology...

Maybe someday when I'm not afraid of bricking my camera and CFExpress is super cheap I'll do a DYI heatsink upgrade like @Matt Perks did and shoot 8K RAW 24 hour livestreams.

[Trek of Joy]

4 hours ago, Nerv said:

More than a C70 or Komodo...which of the 3 would you chose for video work...

As a run and gun shooter that's 50/50 stills/video I'd get the a1 over the others without hesitation. Maybe the c70 and a R5 for photos, definitely not the Komodo. But I'm sticking with the a7sIII for video work and a7III for photos and a video backup, its a beast and I prefer the sIII flippy screen over the a1's. If I want more mp with photos I can just get a used a7rIV at about $2k and still have 2 bodies to cover everything. My a7sIII is my second photo body for now.

Cheers

Chris

[Trek of Joy]

23 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Not for me, but all tech trickles down eventually so good for us all. Dont care about 8k though.

I'm thinking the same thing. The a7III got a dumbed down version of the original a9's tech, makes me think the a7IV will be 50mp, 10 fps, 4k60p, same AF array - with another shitty EVF and LCD. They could bump the price a couple hundred dollars and still continue crush everything in the $2000-2500 range.

Chris

[gt3rs]

18 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

As a run and gun shooter that's 50/50 stills/video I'd get the a1 over the others without hesitation. Maybe the c70 and a R5 for photos, definitely not the Komodo. But I'm sticking with the a7sIII for video work and a7III for photos and a video backup, its a beast and I prefer the sIII flippy screen over the a1's. If I want more mp with photos I can just get a used a7rIV at about $2k and still have 2 bodies to cover everything. My a7sIII is my second photo body for now.

Cheers

Chris

I'm curios to see why a a1 is better than an R5 for video. Both have limits in 8k, both can do 4k FF without overheating but not oversampled so where is the difference? Actually the R5 can do 8k RAW and also 4:2:2 and DCI and 4k FF oversampled although time limited, better lcd for gimbal work. I see nothing in a1 for video that is better other than oversampled S35.

Maybe the a1 image quality is was better than the R5 but I doubt.
 

[herein2020]

4 hours ago, SteveV4D said:

Those going for this camera, I imagine are hybrid shooters.  I'm not one, so I won't go anyway near it.  I'm impressed by it, though it has some key video deficiencies.  As expected for a hybrid camera.  Then again, the C70 can't output RAW, which this camera can, so its give and take.  

For video only work, it would seem silly to invest this much in a hybrid.  My personal thoughts, but maybe others will feel differently.  

I would welcome manufacturers looking at more smaller video only cameras, rather than hybrids.  BM has the Pockets, Canon has the C70.  Panasonic have done a box camera, but something more like the C70 would be a winner for me if done to the same standards as the S1H.  I'm not sure I see Sony offering something like the C70, but maybe....

I'm a hybrid shooter but I'm not going anywhere near it either and not just because it is Sony. You could literally get a great stills camera AND a great video focused camera for the price of this one. I think this camera is literally targeted at the hybrid sports shooter if such a thing exists.  I'm with you, I think the quest for the perfect hybrid camera might be overrated and dedicated video cameras are more realistic.

Personally I'm starting to give up on the idea of a hybrid camera. I keep thinking that a hybrid camera would make my life easier on a hybrid shoot (less gear to carry) but then when I'm on a shoot there's so many differences between the photography portion of the shoot and the video portion (lighting / audio / camera settings / movement / etc) that I feel like I will always need two camera bodies. Even when it comes to the body, for photography I need a remote flash trigger attached and a battery grip with a vertical shutter release button so that I can shoot portraits, for video I need an audio module attached and can't use a battery grip because of the camera cage.