zenpmd Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I hear people moaning about 6d moire and stuff but doesnt magic lantern and shooting raw stop this in its tracks making all the Canon cameras compatible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael1 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Shooting raw does not get rid of moire and aliasing. It just means the sensor data is not compressed. The only want to get rid of it is to oversample a high megapixel sensor, use three chips, or under-sample the sensor in luminance (blur the image).. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenpmd Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 ah...thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 There is a way to get rid of moire on the 6D:http://www.mosaicengineering.com/products/vaf/6d.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxotics Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 There is a lot of moire with the BMPCC, or any RAW cameras. Just in case you don't know, moire is also a naturally occurring phenomenon; that is, our brains/eyes produce it when the detail of lines doesn't fully resolve or blur. Most of the moire in Canon cameras is from line-skipping. You can reduce it by shooting in crop-mode, or by using a filter as Julian pointed out (which just blurs the image just enough to reduce moire without degrading the sharpness--not an easy thing to do). I know a guy who shoots ML RAW on a 50D and does not shoot crop-mode. He says he just makes sure he doesn't shoot in a way that creates moire. I've noticed that I see moire when I take "test" shots of building, say, where the siding is in focus. things like that. But when you're shooting people and you have the background a little bit blurred, moire is not noticeable. IN other words, moire occurs more in test shots, than in what you'd want to shoot. That's my current feeling about it. I even see it on TV, but I have to look for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenpmd Posted March 1, 2014 Author Share Posted March 1, 2014 Ignoring moire, is the video as good ad on the 6d as the 5dm3? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael1 Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 I've noticed that I see moire when I take "test" shots of building, say, where the siding is in focus. things like that. But when you're shooting people and you have the background a little bit blurred, moire is not noticeable. So what you are saying is you want a full frame sensor, and a lot of bokeh. :D Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Remember back in the 1970's when guests on the American TV program "The Tonight Show" would sit at the panel with Johnny Carson while wearing those goofy stripped suits and ties and then end up looking like some kind of visual hypnotizing device? No? Just me? Hey!O! mtheory 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhessel Posted March 1, 2014 Share Posted March 1, 2014 Ignoring moire, is the video as good ad on the 6d as the 5dm3? No the 5D3 is the best for raw as it can record higher resolution continuously than any other camera. It so suffers from rewer problems like moire than the others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxotics Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 So what you are saying is you want a full frame sensor, and a lot of bokeh. :D I know you're just joking, but moire is caused by very sharp (focused) lines moving between pixels in such a way that the right-hand pixel doesn't know what the left-hand pixel is doing ;) When I first started shooting RAW I never noticed moire--because I was shooting people. I don't always want very shallow DOF, but I don't want the background in focus either (or I might as well keep shooting video with a video camera from the 90s!). I start to see moire when I'm testing cameras or comparing them because I usually end up shooting buildings or other exteriors, or even couches, full of patterns. Moire and rolling-shutter (jello) are effects that are certainly annoying, but are generally rare and unnoticed by the viewer if the film-maker is careful. The bottom line is that moire is not a specific problem of Magic Lantern (though Magic Lantern, when shot on a camera with line skipping, like the 50D, or the Ti3, etc, will produce more of it). Even so, the benefits of more tonality and color nuance are worth it for most people--definitely for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael1 Posted March 2, 2014 Share Posted March 2, 2014 I am hoping that in the not too distant future moire and aliasing will be behind us, with higher resolution sensors, and on board processors capable of full sensor processing. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Hughes Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I shoot a lot of bands in the recording studio which seems to be especially problematic for aliasing. Guitar strings and even ridges on cymbals end up looking really gross. In my case, it's definitely not the kind of thing that only shows up in tests. It's actually worse on the 6D than the T3i, I believe because the higher-megapixel sensor ends up skipping more lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxotics Posted March 4, 2014 Share Posted March 4, 2014 I shoot a lot of bands in the recording studio which seems to be especially problematic for aliasing. Guitar strings and even ridges on cymbals end up looking really gross. In my case, it's definitely not the kind of thing that only shows up in tests. It's actually worse on the 6D than the T3i, I believe because the higher-megapixel sensor ends up skipping more lines. Yes, that's correct, the 6D is full-frame and the T3i APS-C. I didn't mean to imply moire isn't a problem, only that in many cases it can be worked around. I can see how a studio, with many hard edges and hard lighting would be a nightmare. If that's the kind of shooting you're going to do it seems to me you'd be better off with a GM1/GX7/GH3/G6 (smaller MFT sensor). Andy shoots a lot of music videos, and has access to RAW video, so that probably figures into his equipment choice. You could still use the 6D for stuff where you need really shallow DOF, but otherwise, like you say, it works against you. The only other fix is to rough up your image in post with film-grain and blurring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick Hughes Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Yes, that's correct, the 6D is full-frame and the T3i APS-C. I didn't mean to imply moire isn't a problem, only that in many cases it can be worked around. I can see how a studio, with many hard edges and hard lighting would be a nightmare. If that's the kind of shooting you're going to do it seems to me you'd be better off with a GM1/GX7/GH3/G6 (smaller MFT sensor). Andy shoots a lot of music videos, and has access to RAW video, so that probably figures into his equipment choice. You could still use the 6D for stuff where you need really shallow DOF, but otherwise, like you say, it works against you. The only other fix is to rough up your image in post with film-grain and blurring. My guy who uses the 6D is actually about to invest in the mosaic engineering filter, which should be nice. NR + film grain does help a good amount- it doesn't eliminate by any means, but makes it much less obtrusive. I'm waiting for wedding season (aka $$$) before I start investing in MFT stuff, but it's definitely on the horizon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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