MrSMW Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 Are we now there? The new Sony has got me thinking. Not only is it the most capable all round hybrid ever made, but are we now at the point where we could simply extract the stills from the video? I am thinking as someone who provides hybrid capture at weddings without strobes. Shoot 4K 120p clips throughout the day (as I do but at 60p at present) and 1/240th of a second. I don’t shoot log but try to get the best SOOC image for minimal post editing. With the Sony, probably the S-Cinetone. What am I missing/overlooking? If I could do this, I could reduce my kit down to a single camera and single (zoom) lens instead of my current 2 bodies + 4 primes. I dismissed the Sony A1 as being above my needs and budget, but actually as a ‘one and done’... I would still need/have another body for static full length ceremony & speeches. No way round that, but for the more ‘artistic’ wedding film and the photography? Interesting (to me anyway) at the very least... I’m thinking body + battery grip + Tamron 24-75mm f2.8 indoors and Tamron 70-180mm f2.8 outdoors, my focal length needs being typically in the 50-150mm range. Comfortable with my Sony ZV1 as back up in my bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Members BTM_Pix Posted January 30, 2021 Super Members Share Posted January 30, 2021 5 hours ago, MrSMW said: Are we now there? For the specific way you are describing how you would shoot where you can keep the shutter speed high-ish (which has always been the bugbear of this if you were respecting the 180 rule) then, with the caveat that you aren't making massive prints, we might well be. The practicalities of the heat, battery life and media usage when shooting 4K120p all day with this camera are still unknown with this particular camera so that is the major potential fly in the ointment but as you are in no particular rush to get one then you can watch how that unfolds when people start using them. As for whether the quality stands up, again, it won't be long before people will start posting downloadable clips from it in its different modes. The picture profile is the other factor but, based on what I've seen of it in their other cameras, the S-Cinetone has certainly got the potential to make that moot(ish). MrSMW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omega1978 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 5 hours ago, MrSMW said: Are we now there? The new Sony has got me thinking. Not only is it the most capable all round hybrid ever made, but are we now at the point where we could simply extract the stills from the video? I am thinking as someone who provides hybrid capture at weddings without strobes. Shoot 4K 120p clips throughout the day (as I do but at 60p at present) and 1/240th of a second. I don’t shoot log but try to get the best SOOC image for minimal post editing. With the Sony, probably the S-Cinetone. What am I missing/overlooking? If I could do this, I could reduce my kit down to a single camera and single (zoom) lens instead of my current 2 bodies + 4 primes. I dismissed the Sony A1 as being above my needs and budget, but actually as a ‘one and done’... I would still need/have another body for static full length ceremony & speeches. No way round that, but for the more ‘artistic’ wedding film and the photography? Interesting (to me anyway) at the very least... I’m thinking body + battery grip + Tamron 24-75mm f2.8 indoors and Tamron 70-180mm f2.8 outdoors, my focal length needs being typically in the 50-150mm range. Comfortable with my Sony ZV1 as back up in my bag. I do this for the shooting with the couple, in 4K50p 1/100 and export direct from the cam screenshots. But it on Lightroom mobil and next day they have a couple of pics as gift, that i can post on FB.. When you go faster with the shutter, you lose the the motion blur for the film. Maybe 4K100p with 1/100 is an option, but at the end of day this are big files to storage and overheating is problematic. Had a discussion with my buddy weeding filmaker recently about photo(from film) and film, but we think that a photographer frames and use focal lengths differently as a filmmaker and pics indoors without flash from dance etc. are not nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 49 minutes ago, omega1978 said: we think that a photographer frames and use focal lengths differently as a filmmaker I’m the opposite and want my stills and video to match as close as possible. I’m going to try some 4K 50p 1/100th with my S5 using my tweaked version of the Natural profile. I’m thinking this approach could be perfect for my needs and with twice the resolution, double the frame rate and shutter speed combined with the best AF in the business... Potential overheating is a consideration then but there aren’t really any other contenders other than Sony as the fast shutter is key for stills. It will give me a project in these shitty times if nothing else! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omega1978 Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 This are some of this screenshots in cam processed with Lightroom mobil. 4k50p 1/100 natural profil only 8bit kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 I just grabbed some stuff from one of my recent commercial shoots. It has completely changed how I look at this kind of thing. Going to explore it some more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Sewell Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 2 hours ago, MrSMW said: I’m the opposite and want my stills and video to match as close as possible. I’m going to try some 4K 50p 1/100th with my S5 using my tweaked version of the Natural profile. I’m thinking this approach could be perfect for my needs and with twice the resolution, double the frame rate and shutter speed combined with the best AF in the business... Potential overheating is a consideration then but there aren’t really any other contenders other than Sony as the fast shutter is key for stills. It will give me a project in these shitty times if nothing else! I can see the potential, but I wouldn't want to risk it for the various money shots through the day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveV4D Posted January 30, 2021 Share Posted January 30, 2021 Stills are a good supplement to Photography, a replacement.... maybe for those who don't need a full Photograpjy service. How do you accommodate Flash into video stills or shooting vertical. There is an art to Photography that stills from video can't duplicate. That said, I offer video stills as part of my Wedding Services. However I always make it clear that it a service that is not a replacement for Photography. Grimor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted January 30, 2021 Author Share Posted January 30, 2021 I never shoot portrait format and haven’t shot flash in over 5 years! Just my ‘style’. My video work has always been essentially a mirror of my stills, ie, I shoot video as a photographer. It’s been a steady evolution for 10 solid years with the previous 10 being I shot stills and my brother shot the video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Romero 2 Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 Just mentioning that the S1 (and I think S5) has a kind of obscure 6K photo mode, where you are actually shooting a video and it lets you "extract" a still from the video (at least as far as I can tell). I think it works with all the various picture profiles, but the video file ends up being recorded as an h.265 instead of h.264 file... Also I am not sure the aspect ratio is still kept at 16:9 or whether it is changed to 3:2 Anyway, I think it gives a slight bump in resolution compared to shooting in 4K. The downside is that it is limited to 10 minutes (in the S1... don't know about other cameras), and again, not sure on the aspect ratio. Also, although it is called 6K photo mode, I have heard that it is actually only 5K. My math is too bad to confirm either way about this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWX Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 We've been at this point. I've been doing this with my NX1 for the last 5 years. Beats having to switch back and forth between stills & video mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elgabogomez Posted January 31, 2021 Share Posted January 31, 2021 As someone who does stills as a hobby/family memories, the idea of browsing through video to get a still is not desirable, I think of photography as “freezing the moment “ and video as “getting the mood” so the shutter speed is a tool that video capture doesn’t do for me in the same vein as deliberately hitting the button in the exact moment. If I were doing event photography I might think different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt3rs Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Not sure what kind of revelation is this. Also not sure why the A1 bring something new here, actually on some canon body you get RAW so you have almost zero quality loss in taking still from video, I only wish there would be an open gate mode. The only thing that really change is the shutter speed but there sometime you get cool panned shoot if you are 1/50 vice versa for other scenes you could optimize more for the photo. New gen care less about the shutter speed as with games and gopro/phone video is all very high shutter speed stuff. Advantage of taking still from video is that you have more choice, sometime you capture moments that you would not have anticipated and pressed the shutter button and of course you have the whole video. Disadvantage is the workflow and shutter speed. I use a lot of remote camera, I trigger them with pocketwizard with an additional button mounted on the lens barrel so for hockey net remotes is great you don't want to record 60 min and scroll through to find the righ moment. But for sport that are more predictable like horse showjumping now I start the record maybe 20 sec before it reaches the obstacle and stop 20 sec after so I don't need to worry. In some key phases I have just turn on recoding before it starts. Sill from video at higher shutter speed: Mini 2 Canon R5 Insta360 1 inch Insta360 dual lens At 1/50 MrSMW, leslie, TomTheDP and 2 others 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thpriest Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 You are going to spend a long time looking for "photos" in the video files. I did this as a favour for a couple who's uncle (retired photographer) was the photographer. His camera jammed just as the dance begun. Wouldn't start again. My shots looked fine as video but as photos they lacked detail. They were 4K from GH5. It just takes ages picking out frames. I think maybe 6k FF would work better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveV4D Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 Again, I feel stills are no match for great Photography, and having offered my clients this, I know the difference. There is a different mind set for genuine great Photographer that video stills lack. Yes, some of my stills make for great photos, but its 1 shot put of 1000s frames. Others are just what they are, stills from a video. I think they look very good, but having worked with some superb Photographers and seen their work, they are a poor cousin. I am planning to use the Pocket 6K for Wedding work when it resumes, partially due to grabbing great stills. The resolution is there to make some detailed images. But the 1/50 shutter I use for video, the aspect ratio and focus on creating great video, will mean my lovely and detailed stills will still be video stills. Not Photographs. True Photography can't be replaced by Video stills. Nor it should be. Why can't both professionals be allowed to be true to what they are? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomTheDP Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 I think it just comes down to being able to do two jobs at once, which saves money. But yeah the backend up picking out a good still from hours of video would be a pain, though probably not that bad if you do it while you edit the video. Now if you were just taking stills I'd see no point in shooting video for most situations. Depends on the situation. If you need tact sharp high shutter speed photos its just not going to work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herein2020 Posted February 1, 2021 Share Posted February 1, 2021 On 1/30/2021 at 1:48 AM, MrSMW said: Are we now there? The new Sony has got me thinking. Not only is it the most capable all round hybrid ever made, but are we now at the point where we could simply extract the stills from the video? I am thinking as someone who provides hybrid capture at weddings without strobes. Shoot 4K 120p clips throughout the day (as I do but at 60p at present) and 1/240th of a second. I don’t shoot log but try to get the best SOOC image for minimal post editing. With the Sony, probably the S-Cinetone. What am I missing/overlooking? If I could do this, I could reduce my kit down to a single camera and single (zoom) lens instead of my current 2 bodies + 4 primes. I dismissed the Sony A1 as being above my needs and budget, but actually as a ‘one and done’... I would still need/have another body for static full length ceremony & speeches. No way round that, but for the more ‘artistic’ wedding film and the photography? Interesting (to me anyway) at the very least... I’m thinking body + battery grip + Tamron 24-75mm f2.8 indoors and Tamron 70-180mm f2.8 outdoors, my focal length needs being typically in the 50-150mm range. Comfortable with my Sony ZV1 as back up in my bag. I for one have never delivered stills from video. I work pretty heavily in the fashion and modeling industry and stills from video isn't even remotely comparable to the type of quality that my clients expect. It would be great actually if I could deliver stills from the video but the difference is too great at least for what I do. Real estate is another area that I shoot and its definitely not possible there. The main difference for my particular use case is the extensive lighting setups that I use for photography that would not work for video. I think now that we are in the cellphone era stills from any video shot with a camera better than a cell phone will be good enough for most clients but not in the areas that I typically work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzynormal Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 On 1/29/2021 at 10:48 PM, MrSMW said: Shoot 4K 120p clips throughout the day (as I do but at 60p at present) and 1/240th of a second. What am I missing/overlooking? My opinion is that video shot at that frame rate and shutter speed looks unappealing, but if you're trying to offer a bonus service, it might be worth the tradeoff. I wouldn't claim that I'd be providing "photographs," but "stills-from-video" as there's a big difference. I suppose it depends on how discriminating you and your clients are, but I would never try to pass off video shooting as photography shooting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Romero 2 Posted February 2, 2021 Share Posted February 2, 2021 Well... I have actually used a couple of stills from video for some of my real estate clients, simply because on the day that had me shoot stills the skies were overcast / dreary, and on the day they had me come back and shoot video, the sky was a lot nicer. Also another client had re-planted flowers in the backyard and they didn't tell me to take a new shot of the backyard, but I was able to grab a frame or two from video for the agent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted February 3, 2021 Author Share Posted February 3, 2021 A couple more questions because I am not very techy and don’t mind admitting I don’t know the answers and these are: Are all 4K screen grabs basically the same size, regardless of whether the screen grab is from a 4/3, APSC or FF sensor? Or is there an advantage to using a larger sensor and say a 50mp over say a 24mp? 6k mode on my S5 is rubbish. OK, to be fair, it does make very nice pics, but in regard to AF tracking, it’s worse than in video mode. In normal stills mode, it’s very good however. 6k video would obviously make for better stills however and 8k even more so, but I tend to shoot for slow motion and 6k 60p might exist (?), but 8k is probably pushing it for me in many ways. So the question is now not whether you can or should...because I have proved to myself that the results from my S5 screen grabs are indistinguishable from Jpegs from raw files...for today’s ‘normal’ use, but which cameras might excel at it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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