A Canon video camera for the rest of us outside Hollywood

[Andrew Reid]

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Do you work for Paramount Studios? If the answer is no then Canon do not any more have an appealing interchangeable lens video camera for you (or even the consumer market) under $15,000.

Forget Ron Howard. This needs fixing first.

[url="http://www.eoshd.com/content/7919/a-canon-video-camera-for-the-rest-of-us-outside-hollywood/"]Read full article[/url]

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[gene_can_sing]

I find it really perplexing that Canon is obsessed with Hollywood.

Apple took the exact opposite direction. As a long time user of the Mac, I find Apple to be very frustrating in that they USED to be a Pro oriented company, and now they've shifted away drastically from the Pro Market.

Why?

Because the pro market make NO MONEY. It's the low to mid-range users that you make a ton of cash from. Does Arri and RED post huge profits? Hell NO. Because they only cater to the Pros. Which is strange that Canon is going after the Pro market so much because Canon is about 1 thing only, and that's making money. However, the strategy will backfire this time.

I think the one thing that can turn the 5D3 around is Magic Lantern and some type of cottage industry to remove the Low Pass filter.

I'm still on the fence about getting a 5D3. I'm torn right now between the FS-100 and the 5D3. The Metabones adaptor is hard to get and I have mainly Canon lenses. I'm thinking if Alex can get Magic Lantern working and tweak the codec a bit, along with a Low Pass filter mod, the 5D3 could be a GREAT camera.

But that's a lot of IFs. I'm going to wait a few weeks to see how things pan out.

Also, ANDREW, can you do an article where you further explore the 5D3 with the Low Pass filter removed? Maybe compare it to an un-altered 5D3.

[MichalGajdos]

Finally, an article showing truth of new present canon. A corporate being which we dont like. But thats just unfortunate for those who didnt want to buy canon anyway. I just hope prices of substitues such as sony, panasonic and god forgive me but little of olympus too cameras wont rise dramatically.

Live long and prosper  :)

[cameraboy]

it will be so funny if magic lantern guys find a way to unlock EOSRAW in 5d mark III ...

[Giovanni Bertani]

So... Under $ 10.000 looks like Sony is the new champion with FS-100 & FS-700 producing cameras with features that people really want & need at the right prices. Just little more than one year ago Sony was totally out from this market.

Competition is good & Lens adapters are great so we can still decide & switch.

[sanveer]

I COMPLETELY agree with Andrew. Canon should just give up on making Video Cameras. They should stick to still cameras. The entire 'C' series is bad. I guess, its High Time canon threw out its ENTIRE Design Team, and got some people with competence.
Either you do it, or don't do it. At All.

[Andrew Reid]

[quote author=sandy link=topic=579.msg3909#msg3909 date=1334331969]
I COMPLETELY agree with Andrew. Canon should just give up on making Video Cameras. They should stick to still cameras. The entire 'C' series is bad. I guess, its High Time canon threw out its ENTIRE Design Team, and got some people with competence.
Either you do it, or don't do it. At All.
[/quote]

Sorry Sandy but this is a ridiculous reaction to my article, which was about a lack of options at the low and mid end of the market not the high end. The Cinema EOS line are superbly designed cameras.

[tobyloc]

I would eat the largest hat I could find, perhaps a sombrero, if Canon made a $5k, 4k sensor, 1080p camera with HDSDI, even without EOSRAW or 60P this year. It's basically the exact spec of the C300, they've made their bed with the C300 spec and they won't cannabilise it until this website is called SONYHD. They are not listening to consumers, prosumers or low budget commercial, music or indie film makers. They just announced a 4k DSLR, available for my future children to preorder, clearly aimed at low/medium budget film makers for $15,000 and it doesn't shoot 25P in 4K mode for god's sake. It wouldn't surprise me if RED had a dragon sensor scarlet before that comes out, which will negate it's only advantage over it - low light ability, every other measure it falls drastically short.

On the other side, Sony have announced an insanely well spec'd and future proof camera for much less that addresses every single quibble users had with the FS100, forget the crazy slow motion and 12 bit 4K HD-SDI future output...it has BIGGER BUTTONS because about 8 people thought they were too hard to press while filming in oven gloves. The mentality between the two is stark.

There are so many 5DMarkII owners, desperate to upgrade, that have been waiting for 3 years, that have saved or can now afford or justify spending $5k-$10k on their next level up camera and speaking as one, we're just having to accept it won't be a Canon. Canon have gone a different way (high end tv and cinema) and that's their perrogative that's not where the market explosion is and if I were a betting man I'd put all my chips on Sony's side as to who will make more money from video cameras in the next 2 years.

[Tzedekh]

I might add that the camera should support 10-bit over the HDMI and 3G-SDI, and 12-bit raw. Otherwise it's old tech. The difference in component prices can't be any more than a few dollars. Let's move on from 8-bit 4:2:0 already. But I think the C100 will never happen.

[gene_can_sing]

I think the only way to get the last laugh is through hacks such as Magic Lantern.

Hey Andrew, since you are friends with both Vitality and Alex, could you suggest that they work together on a Mark 3 hack?

I would be the first to pitch in if that happens.

I think the 5D3 actually has huge potential, but it's just going to take someone to unlock it. When the GH2 came out, it was pretty ordinary, but Vitality took it to the next level.

[pixnvid]

Canon is doing all this Hollywood stuff to try to take the market away from Red and Arri. That's all this is about. And the whole 4K thing is just foolishness. It has no use beyond Hollywood productions at the moment and for the lower-end user - and let's face it, that's what most of us are - 4K is grotesque overkill. For web and TV, 1080 is all that's needed. Anything beyond that is just wasted time and expense.
NAB is for the high-end users with a few tidbits tossed to the masses. That's who Canon is aiming at right now. They need to make a mighty noise and get noticed. When all the dust clears they'll probably only end up selling maybe a thousand or so of their C and C500 cameras, a molecule of water in the huge Canon bucket. They make their money from consumer-level cameras, not from their high-end gear.
The 7D and 60D and their cousins will get upgrades, probably sooner than later. And versions of all the things Canon has put in their Hollywood stuff will trickle down to the consumer level. Of course, that will kick off another round of rage and indignation.
In the meantime, why don't we all just go shoot something and calm down. It's April, spring is in the air - or autumn down south -and the light is magical. And the cameras we have still work just fine.

[jpbelanger]

Congrats Andrew, your article explains every bit of tech specs we would need right now. But there's one more thing: I've been working in customer service for over 10 years and if there's one single customers can't stand is feeling they are not heard.

Canon can bring every piece of high tech gear they want; if the people who actually BUY their products feel they don't care about them anymore, they will look somewhere else. Like someone else mentionned; look at Apple, selling pro products for 20 years and now they're clearly focussing on mass production instead of creating products people are asking for. And it didn't took so long for pros to get back to building PCs and looking at alternatives like Avid and Premiere.

Hey Canon, people actually get tired of waiting. Fix it or we will go somewhere else, I'm not joking.

[Stronz]

I think it's funny that, for the most part, these are the features people were asking for 4 years ago from the 5D and its other variants in the EOS line. It amazes me that after 4 years $2500 still buys you pretty much the exact same camera.

I think it's just a testament to the fact that Canon really screwed themselves over by introducing video into the 5DmkII. I don't think they've ever wanted to improve video at that price point. It completely undercut their "Pro" cameras and they've been trying to recover ever since. Time will tell but from their product releases it appears that Canon has no interest in the indie/low budget film market.

Sony, however, seem to be pushing ahead full steam. Panasonic seems like they are on the fence and don't know what to embrace.

[Max]

Cant wait forever for a large sensor camera with in body image stabilization,continues autofocus and true 1080p.

Canon? their upcoming mirrorles camera  will probably not  have the combination of  in body image stabilization with true
1080p.

Olympus? OM-D E-M5 have in body image stabilization but interlace video. Yes, interlace for 50 years old tube TV!!

Panasonic? Good video in GH but no in body image stabilization :(

Sony? click click click  :P

I will by the Sony Cyber-shot DSC-HX20V  until the GH3 or NEX-5N replacement. 

[Axel]

Very thorough thoughts on where our low budgets won't be spent. To some of the EOS HD members $15.000 (actually more) may be no issue, but surely this is not the majority. A pity, because it all startet so promising, with the EOS VDSLRs, then with Scorsese praising the C300 as the perfect tool for indie filmmakers. I believe without proof that the C500 or the new 1D are fine cameras, but not for me. My (and other former Canon purchasers) envy may make Canon proud. Will Hollywood sell their Epics and Alexas now?

Another point: All these cameras are prototypes in a way (the 4k thing). Always prototypes are expensive, and always the next generation is technically [i]much[/i] better and [i]much[/i] cheaper. And this is like buying a 4k TV panel now, when we struggle to receive 720p or 1080i broadcasts (and will continue doing so for at least another decade). Or like buying a hydrogen fuel cell car right now with no hydrogen stations around. Hollywood? Yeah, Peter Jackson bought 48 Epics, and he shot in 5k. If that teaches you, that one 4k camera will pay off - for cinemas that are and will remain 2k, for films that need to amortize within two weeks and then disappear  - then you must buy these beta-cams.

[mike_tee_vee]

I am more concerned about Panasonic.  The AVC Ultra announcement isn't anything exciting, and there's no real clear direction on where they are headed.  Will the next AG AF camera be micro 4/3?  The photo and video deparments seem to be independent of each other.  The 12-35 and 35-100 mock ups are nice, but when will we see the retail versions, and who are the targeted towards? 

The GH2 is amazing tool, I just hope it doesn't end up being an "accidental revolution" like the 5D mk II was.  I can easily see the GH3 being just as re-hased as the mk III. 

Without compelling alternatives under $5000 from Panasonic to supplement offers from Sony, Canon will not feel the pinch.

[Bruno]

These are high end Cinema cameras that Canon is announcing, they're meant to compete with Red and Arri, I see absolutely nothing wrong with it. For years film cameras cost way over 100k, and I don't remember people demanding they put out sub 5k USD cameras. Even RED, who promised everyone such a camera, that never existed and that they never knew how to make, got away with it easy, so why point the finger at Canon now, who came out with the HDSLR video revolution in the first place, allowing us all to make great work with them, while RED kept pointing the finger at all their downsides without ever managing to come up with an alternative.

If you look at this Cinema 1D, it's a hi-speed 4k full frame camera, there's nothing like it out there, no matter what.
You crank up the speed on a RED camera and it crops the sensor the higher fps you go.

It's true most their DSLR cameras are due for updates, specially on the video side, but they were never video cameras in the first place. They already have cameras on the price range you mentioned, wait for new versions of the 7D, 60D, etc...
The current 7D came with some improvements on the video side when compared to the 5D mkII, let's hope they do that again and smooth out some of the less appealing glitches with the 5D mkIII, but I don't get all this fuss against them wanting to get into a new market as well.

[Axel]

@Bruno

You are right. So many changes. It will take time to see through.

[bwhitz]

I would be surprised if some of canon's Hollywood consultants (who pretend to be on the side of democratizing toolmaking tools) specifically persuaded canon to price these out of reach of the masses to keep their "professional" edge. You can't have 20-somethings learning 4k cinematography and putting you out of business now can you?

[Chad]

What's funny is that i don't even really want much. I don't need 4k. I probably don't even need super high frame rates. I'm astounded that they haven't offered some kind of a large sensor VIDEO camera with interchangeable lenses for around $7k!

Maybe they're working on a C-100, who knows. Maybe they don't want to cut in to their XF-300 or XF-100 sales? But it's a whole different kind of camera.