SONY FX3 new camera to be announced

[TomTheDP]

1 hour ago, Lux Shots said:

You should consider a used S1 body and a used S1H.  I had the S5, and as beautiful as the footage is, having limited internal 10-bit 4K recording ended up biting me in the ass on the first job I used it on. I traded it for a used S1 after Panasonic announced the S1 getting 5.9K support and timecode (hopefully over the PC Sync port, so I can sync my S1H with the S1). Same batteries, and mostly the same media. Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll add ProRes RAW support to the Ninja V. It's nice to have the ProRes RAW option, but to be honest, I only used it twice with my S1H and I could have done the job just as good with straight 10-bit V-Log. Where the ProRes RAW shines is in the 5.9K capture, as it's miles better than Panasonic's H.265 codec. Hundreds of miles!

Prores RAW is coming to the S1 with the new firmware update. The internal codecs are great but definitely start to show their limitations when paired against something like REDraw. I am really interested to see what Prores RAW is like though whenever that firmware update comes along. 

 

2 hours ago, EphraimP said:

I'd say that's a bit of an overstatement. You may not need any of this year's new offerings, or last years. But you have no idea what other professionals are shooting on, or what equipment will make their jobs easier or what will help them book more jobs or sell more productions or help them boost their rates.

If you don't like the way the market's trending, awesome! Vote with your wallet. I won't be getting an FX3, or a A7SIII for that matter, or an FX6, a Pocket 6K Pro, or an R5 or an R6. But I'm not going to pretend that just because these cameras, or Panasonics offerings or any number of other cameras out there don't work for me, are not the right camera for someone else.

The whole idea of individual shooters determining what other people need is quite silly. Yes, the market might offer a whole lot of choices a whole lot more quickly than it did in the past. Some of it is pure marketing, as the FX3 seems to be. But a fair amount of it is due to more rapid technical innovation, some of it is due to market disruptors like BMD and the new breed of Chinese cine camera companies forcing the big dogs to compete on price and features. And some of it is camera companies scrambling to see what features and body styles will get a shrinking market excited.

In the end, we actually benefit from these new releases, if we're smart enough to weigh the options carefully and only buy what we as individual shooters need and can swing. That's the way I see it, anyway.

I never said the fast paced market is a bad thing. Doesn't really effect me. Cheaper and higher quality gear is only good for me. 

As to it being an overstatement I would say hardly but to each his own opinion. 

[dkovie]

4 hours ago, EphraimP said:

But you have no idea what other professionals are shooting on, or what equipment will make their jobs easier or what will help them book more jobs or sell more productions or help them boost their rates.

Shoot Arri, get more jobs, sell more productions, boost your rates. Simple.

[MrSMW]

4 hours ago, Lux Shots said:

You should consider a used S1 body and a used S1H.  I had the S5, and as beautiful as the footage is, having limited internal 10-bit 4K recording ended up biting me in the ass on the first job I used it on. I traded it for a used S1 after Panasonic announced the S1 getting 5.9K support and timecode (hopefully over the PC Sync port, so I can sync my S1H with the S1). Same batteries, and mostly the same media. Maybe I'll get lucky and they'll add ProRes RAW support to the Ninja V. It's nice to have the ProRes RAW option, but to be honest, I only used it twice with my S1H and I could have done the job just as good with straight 10-bit V-Log. Where the ProRes RAW shines is in the 5.9K capture, as it's miles better than Panasonic's H.265 codec. Hundreds of miles!

Not really... My use case is low-key hybrid photographer/filmmaker and cameras the size of the S1/H + Ninja on top etc are OTT.

Having said that, I am looking at getting a used S1H as my main workhorse for hybrid work with a bias towards the video capture and using my S5 also as a hybrid, but with more of a bias towards the stills side.

Why? Anti-aliasing filter and potentially the 6k etc, but only ever internal. External recording just is not an option for me. Or a requirement.

In an ideal world, ie, one without Covid, I think right now, I'd go with a pair of S1H's actually as I'm over the size of it (as a unit without grip, cage or anything but a lens) especially now that the AF has been updated.

Compared with an FX3...

I think if I had the money, in this 'ideal world of mine that does not exist', I'd go with a pair of FX3's over S1H for the size and AF.

I think they are really neat looking and though not really a 'cinema camera', I'd class it as a hybrid like the A7Siii but slightly more video-centric (and less photo-centric).

IBIS or internal ND...?

Tough one as I'd prefer both.

I think I'd have to go in favour of IBIS 51 to 49% for my specific case use.

I think any of the current Sony's could pair up well actually such as FX6 on tripod for pure video capture whilst using either an A7Siii or FX3 handheld for stills and video.

But I don't have the cash and won't for at least a year or two and even then, I'm going to be happy for a while with either a pair of S5's or an S5 paired with an S1H.

[Lux Shots]

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

...I'd go with a pair of S1H's actually as I'm over the size of it (as a unit without grip, cage or anything but a lens) especially now that the AF has been updated....

Don't waste your energy, as the AF is still garbage unless you shoot interview type work at f/11. Even 75mm f/4 is out of the question in a talking head scenario.

[Lux Shots]

4 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

Prores RAW is coming to the S1 with the new firmware update. The internal codecs are great but definitely start to show their limitations when paired against something like REDraw. I am really interested to see what Prores RAW is like though whenever that firmware update comes along...

ProRes RAW is fantastic on my S1H, so hopefully they don't time limit the capture. I got this off of Panasonic's website, and unfortunately, they won't have jam sync timecode on the S1. 😢

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

18 hours ago, Anaconda_ said:

How would you ever stabilise in post without crop?

This basically has the SteadXP built in. Something all camera's could do with, and Blackmagic previously suggested would come for their cameras, but so far never has. Maybe now it'll start to become a standard.

I agree with you. But since one of the full frame users preferences over smaller formats is that is easier to work with wide angle shots, it is an important factor.

[Trek of Joy]

More choices are better. Kinda makes the C70 look a little overpriced.

Man how quickly everyone throws shade. If this was released before the a7s3 it would be hailed as the greatest thing ever. Personally I like it, even though I love the EVF on the a7s3. The only thing I don't like is the lack of a convenient way to mount a monitor to the handle. If you're going that route, the a7s3 and a cage makes more sense. If you're all internal recording without a monitor, I'd probably go this route for something smaller.

I do wish it had the internal ND's. If I get another video-centric Sony it will be the FX6, mostly for that and the ability to ditch NR. If the a1 and the FX6 were around before the a7s3, I may have gone that route for my hybrid shooting solution, my niece can get me the EDU discount LOL! I may still make that move if a few freelance opportunities come through, but I'll wait for the a74 before doing anything.

Chris

[SteveV4D]

1 hour ago, Trek of Joy said:

More choices are better. Kinda makes the C70 look a little overpriced.

Man how quickly everyone throws shade. If this was released before the a7s3 it would be hailed as the greatest thing ever. 

Greatest thing ever without ND, DCI 4K, shutter angle, waveform etc; 🤔 I think not.  

If the FX3 was before the A7sIII, then the latter would have received with less welcome instead, especially the low 12mp sensor for a hybrid camera.  We'd be saying they just cannibalised the FX3 sensor and added the evf and took away the audio attachment.  

Issue is that after the A7sIII, some were hoping for more for the FX3.  

[Django]

2 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

More choices are better. Kinda makes the C70 look a little overpriced.

C70 is a real cine cam though with built-in ND's, TC, DCI 4K, shutter angle, waveform etc. Basically all the things people were expecting from FX3 and that are missing.

That said yeah it's not a bad cam per se, pretty awesome even for a mirrorless, just not really worthy of the FX line imo.

[mrtreve]

You can see how this product came into existence. The internals of the A7S III gave a good framework for a more video-focused design, but all of the meaningful additions edged the price too close to the FX6, so it ended up being a tarted-up A7S III. 

There is something cool (but superficial) about having a fleet of the grey Cinema Line cameras... it sort of suggests they all play nicely together. Even though there's really no difference to the A7S III.

It's just a real shame they had to lose the EVF. It's one of the best things about the form factor.

[SteveV4D]

26 minutes ago, mrtreve said:

 

It's just a real shame they had to lose the EVF. It's one of the best things about the form factor.

A plus to the Pocket 6K Pro is that although an EVF isn't included, there is a dedicated unit that covers that function.  I will no doubt purchase this at some point and I wonder if something similar could be offered to the FX3. Making it an optional extra would be a better option than third party solutions, which I am using for the Pocket 4K.

[Trek of Joy]

26 minutes ago, Django said:

C70 is a real cine cam though with built-in ND's, TC, DCI 4K, shutter angle, waveform etc. Basically all the things people were expecting from FX3 and that are missing.

That said yeah it's not a bad cam per se, pretty awesome even for a mirrorless, just not really worthy of the FX line imo.

Well that's the FX6, I don't think anyone expects a shrunken FX6 that undercuts its price by that much. Though I think they could have pushed the price point a higher and included all that. IMO that's the problem with the rumor mill, it creates crazy expectations with all the bullshit, and then things come crashing down with actual specs or prices. 

Cheers

Chris

[mrtreve]

3 minutes ago, SteveV4D said:

A plus to the Pocket 6K Pro is that although an EVF isn't included, there is a dedicated unit that covers that function.  I will no doubt purchase this at some point and I wonder if something similar could be offered to the FX3. Making it an optional extra would be a better option than third party solutions, which I am using for the Pocket 4K.

Good point, it could be an add-on at some point. That would be great for people who need it. It's kind of rare that any hardware add-ons are ever released after the fact though. They're usually caught up in making the next product.

I agree, third party evfs never really work on cams this small.

[TomTheDP]

1 hour ago, Trek of Joy said:

Well that's the FX6, I don't think anyone expects a shrunken FX6 that undercuts its price by that much. Though I think they could have pushed the price point a higher and included all that. IMO that's the problem with the rumor mill, it creates crazy expectations with all the bullshit, and then things come crashing down with actual specs or prices. 

Cheers

Chris

Yes but why include it in the FX line if it doesn't have cinema camera features. 

[Trek of Joy]

1 hour ago, TomTheDP said:

Yes but why include it in the FX line if it doesn't have cinema camera features. 

Because if it were called the a7sIIIc, it wouldn't sell at $3800 😂 There's an interview on Dpreview, its their drone cam among other uses. Sony is building out an ecosystem which is good since DJI seems to have forgotten about their entire line above the Mini/Air's. I think people are getting too hung up on the word cinema. Bloom makes fun of that in his FX3 video. IMO, rather than create a new line they dropped it below the FX6. 

Cheers

Chris

[TomTheDP]

41 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

Because if it were called the a7sIIIc, it wouldn't sell at $3800 😂 There's an interview on Dpreview, its their drone cam among other uses. Sony is building out an ecosystem which is good since DJI seems to have forgotten about their entire line above the Mini/Air's. I think people are getting too hung up on the word cinema. Bloom makes fun of that in his FX3 video. IMO, rather than create a new line they dropped it below the FX6. 

Cheers

Chris

I don't know the A7S3 sold fine. I just think it's a lame release. Could be of interest if they don't have the nasty NR that the a7s3 has but it looks like its still there. Still hoping they'll disable it on a firmware update for the S3.

Having features like TC in would make sense and I don't think people looking at a FX6 would go down to the FX3 just for timecode. But what do I know. 

[Llaasseerr]

Possibly dumb question, but does this camera do true 24P with ProRes Raw? If you check the official Sony page, all the frame rates for the internal codecs list 23.98. But under the raw specs, it says 24P and also emphasises that you can crop to DCI from 4.2K. I don't think they would say that unless they could fully support the DCI spec with true 24P.

https://www.sony.com/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras/ilme-fx3/specifications#features

 

[androidlad]

8 hours ago, Llaasseerr said:

Possibly dumb question, but does this camera do true 24P with ProRes Raw? If you check the official Sony page, all the frame rates for the internal codecs list 23.98. But under the raw specs, it says 24P and also emphasises that you can crop to DCI from 4.2K. I don't think they would say that unless they could fully support the DCI spec with true 24P.

https://www.sony.com/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras/ilme-fx3/specifications#features

 

It's all 23.98P, for internal, external, compressed and ProRes RAW

[SteveV4D]

16 minutes ago, androidlad said:

It's all 23.98P, for internal, external, compressed and ProRes RAW

So no DCI, no true 24p, no waveform... even the GH5 offers this... maybe we should call the GH5 a cinema camera. 😄

[Llaasseerr]

2 hours ago, androidlad said:

It's all 23.98P, for internal, external, compressed and ProRes RAW

Gotcha.