Blackmagic Camera Update Feb 17

[TomTheDP]

The C70 is $3000 more with no RAW of any kind. The built in monitor on the Pocket 6k Pro is also a lot nicer. An optional view finder is quite nice too. 

I doubt you'll get more dynamic range out of a C70 than a P6K. I've heard C200/C300 owners say they don't think the C70 footage is any better. Not saying the C70 isn't great but its not the best by any means especially at its price point. 

10 stop ND's, RF mount, and 3+ hr battery life is awesome tho. 

[SteveV4D]

C70 is a workhorse camera for run n gun, Pocket 6K more a cinema camera.  I liked the C70 but you pay a lot for it, and yes it has more DR, but how often will I need those extra stops.  I rarely clip with the Pocket 4K aside from those situations where even the C70 would have issues with.  The extra range of ND and The AF would be useful, but the trade off. No 6K, smaller screen, ability to record record SSD which I love, BRAW vs H264, a colour science I prefer over Canon and a lot cheaper too.  

Two entirely different cameras for different needs and style of shooting.  The C70 shouldn't be like the Pocket 6K pro and vice versa.  We all need variety not copycats. 

I choose the Pocket 6K Pro.  It's the best choice for me.  Of course the reverse is true for those who buy the C70.

[crevice]

31 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

The C70 is $3000 more with no RAW of any kind. The built in monitor on the Pocket 6k Pro is also a lot nicer. An optional view finder is quite nice too. 

I doubt you'll get more dynamic range out of a C70 than a P6K. I've heard C200/C300 owners say they don't think the C70 footage is any better. Not saying the C70 isn't great but its not the best by any means especially at its price point. 

10 stop ND's, RF mount, and 3+ hr battery life is awesome tho. 

Every time I tell myself to step away, I get sucked back in. Yes you will get more DR out of the C70. Let me tell you straight from the horses mouth. I have owned a C200, pocket 4k, pocket 6k, and ursa mini. I now own a C70 and it has more DR than all of them. The C70 is far superior to my C200, CLOG 2 and color grading 10 bit footage is way better than 8 bit footage or canons heavy raw lite - which is not lite at all. Your statement says C200/C300  users say they dont think the image is better, but that statement itself is confusing. The C300 is the same sensor so of course it isnt any better... The c70 destroys my c200. I am not saying its the best camera for everyone and I am not trying to fanboy all over this thread by saying all other cameras suck. But some of the comments on here are underselling a true workhorse of a camera in the C70 and are kinda downplaying how amazing the DGO sensor is.

[Thpriest]

This does look like a really interesting camera.

2 things for me will be key, reliability and whether ProRes will be available in 6k.

I would have preferred 2 sd slots, or 2 cf slots rather than mix and match. I like dual recording* 

*does anyone know if you can record on both Cf and SD at the same time?

 

[Thpriest]

11 minutes ago, crevice said:

Every time I tell myself to step away, I get sucked back in. Yes you will get more DR out of the C70. Let me tell you straight from the horses mouth. I have owned a C200, pocket 4k, pocket 6k, and ursa mini. I now own a C70 and it has more DR than all of them. The C70 is far superior to my C200, CLOG 2 and color grading 10 bit footage is way better than 8 bit footage or canons heavy raw lite - which is not lite at all. Your statement says C200/C300  users say they dont think the image is better, but that statement itself is confusing. The C300 is the same sensor so of course it isnt any better... The c70 destroys my c200. I am not saying its the best camera for everyone and I am not trying to fanboy all over this thread by saying all other cameras suck. But some of the comments on here are underselling a true workhorse of a camera in the C70 and are kinda downplaying how amazing the DGO sensor is.

I think many pros would love a C70 but it's expensive. So 2 BM 6K pros probably makes more sense

 

[tupp]

1 hour ago, Video Hummus said:

I’m wondering if the new design is part of a future FF EF mount model with internal ND?

Not sure how that makes sense nor how that would even work, as it appears that they would have to retool the camera body to do so.

 

Furthermore, there is no technical reason to have a permanent EF mount to incorporate "internal" filters.  The camera could have an established shallow mount or a shallow interchangeable lens mount flange.  One could then use one of the existing third-party EF adapters with internal NDs and/or use a more integrally designed adapter offered by Blackmagic.  None of these options could make the camera any uglier.

[TomTheDP]

30 minutes ago, crevice said:

Every time I tell myself to step away, I get sucked back in. Yes you will get more DR out of the C70. Let me tell you straight from the horses mouth. I have owned a C200, pocket 4k, pocket 6k, and ursa mini. I now own a C70 and it has more DR than all of them. The C70 is far superior to my C200, CLOG 2 and color grading 10 bit footage is way better than 8 bit footage or canons heavy raw lite - which is not lite at all. Your statement says C200/C300  users say they dont think the image is better, but that statement itself is confusing. The C300 is the same sensor so of course it isnt any better... The c70 destroys my c200. I am not saying its the best camera for everyone and I am not trying to fanboy all over this thread by saying all other cameras suck. But some of the comments on here are underselling a true workhorse of a camera in the C70 and are kinda downplaying how amazing the DGO sensor is.

Have you compared the two side by side? I was speaking of the C300 mk2 not mk3. I would hope the C70 destroys both those older cameras. 

 

[crevice]

Just now, TomTheDP said:

Have you compared the two side by side? I was speaking of the C300 mk2 not mk3. I would hope the C70 destroys both those older cameras. 

 

C200 and C70? Yes I have

[Mark Romero 2]

4 hours ago, crevice said:

Last I checked the C70 has a 16 stop DGO sensor found in a $10k cinema camera.

Are there any real scientific tests of the actual DR of the C70? If so, can you link to them? 

Gerald Undone used a Xyla chart and came up with 13 stops of DR, which put it pretty much in line with an a7S 3 or a Panasonic S1 / S1H / S5.

I am truly hoping that it is NOT 16 Stops of DR because I really don't want to spend all that money for one.

 

[independent]

The a7s3 gets its dynamic range number w/ noise reduction - artificially boosting the S/R of 2, which CineD (and Gerald later adopted). The c70 is 13+ stops at that S/R if I recall correctly, better than the a7s3--or the fx6 (below 13), which makes sense because of the c70's dual gain sensor. Only the Alexa is better.

[IronFilm]

On 2/13/2021 at 12:04 PM, majoraxis said:

I think there is room between the USRA Mini Pro 4.6k G2 and the USRA Mini Pro 12k for an USRA Mini Pro 8k for $7,500 that is basically the USRA Mini 12k that restricts the resolution to a downsampled 8k image. This could also be upgradable for $3,500 to 12k including installing the 12k enabling board at a local Blackmagic dealer

Nah, BMD should forget about anything above 6K resolution. 

They already have their "HEY LOOK AT US" cameras with the UMP 12K (and the cheap cheap Pocket 6K camera). 

I'd like a URSA Micro Pro, put the existing UMP G2 body into something close to FX6/FS5 sizing/weight. 

Remember how the URSA line up originally was meant to have the option for a swappable sensor? I think the URSA cooling was overengineered so it could handle a sensor swap out for an 8K one, so perhaps a small URSA body with a smaller heat sink and whatever other advances they've figured out since then to miniaturize could result in an URSA Micro Pro 4.6K (wouldn't be very "Micro", just like the Pocket isn't "pocket sized", but would be FS5/FSX6-ish sized). 

 

 

On 2/13/2021 at 12:04 PM, majoraxis said:

I would like to see the Pocket 6k sensor with M4/3 mount in a Micro Cinema Camera body with SDI output and dual micro XLR microphone inputs for $2495.

I would like to see a 6k global shutter sensor with M4/3 mount in a Micro Cinema Camera body with SDI output and dual micro XLR microphone inputs for $2995.

I wold like to see a Pocket 6k with M4/3's mount for $1995. I assume there is very little research and development that is required to create this product variation.

I would purchase any of the above 6k M4/3 configurations if and when available.

Yes, all of that. 
More Micro Four Thirds cameras from BMD please!
 

7 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Two XLR inputs, that's nice too. 

They're Mini XLR connections. 
 

[IronFilm]

7 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Unless you need auto focus it's hard to justify getting the C70 over this. There's A LOT of value in this. $2,500 for all of that is a tremendous value. 

It's killed the C70, only reasons to get a C70 now are:
1) autofocus
2) desire for a shall mirrorless mount (damn you BMD, give us a MFT Mount! Or even E Mount)
3) belief in the magical "Canon color science"
4) irrational hatred of BMD (we know many of those people exist!)

(as for DR, am always ultra skeptical about manufacturer claims, have we seen a head to head shoot out in a controlled manner between a C70 and P6K? As for battery life, once you slap a V Mount on it, this hardly matters)

7 hours ago, tupp said:

Yet another Super35 camera from Blackmagic with an EF mount.

Wonderful!

Do I detect sarcasm? It would be sarcasm if I wrote it! ha

  

4 hours ago, crevice said:

The c70 destroys my c200.

Yes, but the C200 is known for having a bad old sensor in it. 
No surprises there that it out performs the C200.

[TomTheDP]

4 hours ago, crevice said:

C200 and C70? Yes I have

No the Pocket 6k. It has amazing highlight retention and shadows not far off from an Alexa. 

[Emanuel]

Horses for courses. Best bang for the buck, no other cameras rival BMD offer for the price or similar, picture-wise :- )

[kye]

Literally, the first thing underneath the name of the camera is:

HANDHELD.....

I carefully read the page looking for IBIS, but no mention of it.  So, it's handheld for the same reason that any other camera under 3Kg is handheld.  Excuse me while I sip my handheld coffee, contemplate all my handheld lenses and handheld memory cards and type this on my handheld laptop.

I'd like to see them create the GH5 successor.  It's an entirely different market, but within reach.

People loved the GH5 for video because:

• IBIS
• reliability, no overheating, and battery life
• good codecs
• anamorphic and slow-motion modes
• flippy screen
• MFT lens mount can adapt most other lens mounts
• compact and light for hand-held and gimbal use
• low price for the features (at the time)

The BM cameras meet quite a lot of these, but for many including myself, the P4K is a mixture of things I don't want/need and the absence of things I use all the time.  I own a Micro, their cheapest current camera, and it's nothing like the GH5 in terms of usability - apart from being cheap it has almost nothing in common with the GH5 or how I shoot for that matter.  I'm aware that the GH5 is a hybrid, but I suspect many users don't care about stills, and besides, BM don't seem to understand that the P6KPro isn't a hybrid.

I think there's room in their lineup for a more video-centric camera that fits into the above spec, and it wouldn't be cannibalising much of their existing customer base, as not many GH5 fans could use a P4K, and not many P4K fans could use a GH5.  

There seems to be an entire market segment of wedding videographers, music video creators, social media influencers, who are faced with the choice of a camera that can shoot how they want (reliable in the field and fast to work with) and what they want (RAW and high-bitrate/bit-depth codecs) but there aren't many cheap offerings that span this gap.  These people are doing comparisons like A7S3 vs Komodo vs C70 and the like.  

These comparisons always have the tone of Lamborghini vs Hummer vs Mercedes S-Class - all great performers but for vastly different tasks and if these things are being directly compared then there is something wrong.  Oh, and nothing is remotely affordable.  This seems like a gap in the market to me.

[TomTheDP]

43 minutes ago, kye said:

Literally, the first thing underneath the name of the camera is:

HANDHELD.....

I carefully read the page looking for IBIS, but no mention of it.  So, it's handheld for the same reason that any other camera under 3Kg is handheld.  Excuse me while I sip my handheld coffee, contemplate all my handheld lenses and handheld memory cards and type this on my handheld laptop.

I'd like to see them create the GH5 successor.  It's an entirely different market, but within reach.

People loved the GH5 for video because:

• IBIS
• reliability, no overheating, and battery life
• good codecs
• anamorphic and slow-motion modes
• flippy screen
• MFT lens mount can adapt most other lens mounts
• compact and light for hand-held and gimbal use
• low price for the features (at the time)

The BM cameras meet quite a lot of these, but for many including myself, the P4K is a mixture of things I don't want/need and the absence of things I use all the time.  I own a Micro, their cheapest current camera, and it's nothing like the GH5 in terms of usability - apart from being cheap it has almost nothing in common with the GH5 or how I shoot for that matter.  I'm aware that the GH5 is a hybrid, but I suspect many users don't care about stills, and besides, BM don't seem to understand that the P6KPro isn't a hybrid.

I think there's room in their lineup for a more video-centric camera that fits into the above spec, and it wouldn't be cannibalising much of their existing customer base, as not many GH5 fans could use a P4K, and not many P4K fans could use a GH5.  

There seems to be an entire market segment of wedding videographers, music video creators, social media influencers, who are faced with the choice of a camera that can shoot how they want (reliable in the field and fast to work with) and what they want (RAW and high-bitrate/bit-depth codecs) but there aren't many cheap offerings that span this gap.  These people are doing comparisons like A7S3 vs Komodo vs C70 and the like.  

These comparisons always have the tone of Lamborghini vs Hummer vs Mercedes S-Class - all great performers but for vastly different tasks and if these things are being directly compared then there is something wrong.  Oh, and nothing is remotely affordable.  This seems like a gap in the market to me.

Handheld is very doable with a lens that has OIS tho. 

[KnightsFan]

In my opinion, this looks like an absolutely wonderful camera for people who want good images without complex rigs. Most of us here are very tech minded and love adapters, and external rig parts, but I don't think this style camera is aimed at us. No adapters, no front-of-lens ND filters, no rigged batteries (if you use the grip), no external monitor or recorder. I'm sure many schools will be buying these. Simple enough for intro classes, don't need to teach students how to rig it up just to use it, but still makes great images.

IBIS would make it more handheld-friendly in some cases, sure, but would also increase cost. I suspect IBIS requires more engineering, R&D, and QC than any feature Blackmagic has. Add IBIS and the price goes up. For any planned shoot, a gimbal does a better job anyway. Even a wide set of handles with good balance makes up for it.

[newfoundmass]

It's not IBIS but throw this on a cheap shoulder rig and you can definitely get great handheld footage. 

[BenEricson]

3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

It's killed the C70, only reasons to get a C70 now are:
1) autofocus
2) desire for a shall mirrorless mount (damn you BMD, give us a MFT Mount! Or even E Mount)
3) belief in the magical "Canon color science"
4) irrational hatred of BMD (we know many of those people exist!)

I’ll add to this. I own the C70. It’s a great little camera. Really fun to use. The BMD color looks great but I think the Canon gets you there a bit quicker and easier. The Canon seems to do better in mixed / poor lighting conditions.

Battery Life (7 hours with the a60)

Dual Slot record. Dual slot to proxy or duplicate backup.

Full frame FF with adapter

RF to PL lens options

Reliability. (Some trust BMD 100 percent. We know many of those people exist.)

Matching to other Canon Cinema Cameras.

Netflix Approved (whatever.)

Noise. The C70 is REAL clean in the shadows.

Extended ND to 10 stops? I couldn’t find documentation but it looked like the pocket only goes to 6.

The attachable EVF is genius and Canon is absolutely blowing it by not including that on the C70.

Black Magic is killing it, but the workhorse cameras have their place for reliability. I’ve shot with the C300ii all over the world, in pretty much every condition and it’s never skipped a beat. Never lost a frame. Black Magic... any owner who is honest will have a long list of quirks.

[IronFilm]

3 minutes ago, BenEricson said:

Reliability. (Some trust BMD 100 percent. We know many of those people exist.)

touché