Coronavirus survey part 2 - how are work & incomes going?

[Tim Sewell]

32 minutes ago, Eric Calabros said:

Its like saying poor people in developed countries shouldn't call themselves poor, because some kids somewhere in India are dying because there is no enough food.

No. It's like saying free people in a country built on genocide and slavery, who daily benefit from that history, shouldn't call themselves enslaved when they're asked to temporarily change their lifestyles in order to save the lives of their neighbours.

 

34 minutes ago, Eric Calabros said:

Slavery is about a situation where a person or a group of people, commonly known as master, decides how you should live. Some people have legitimately concluded that they're in that situation right now. The mathematical measurements of misery is not the subject.

No. Slavery is a situation where a person or a group of people are forced to labour for no recompense. Some people have concluded that they're in that situation right now because they're too spoilt and entitled to countenance a temporary disruption to their lives in order to save the lives of their neighbours.

[fuzzynormal]

Luckily, I've lined up a few gigs for the next quarter that'll keep me occupied and making a living.  Not a lucrative one, mind, but a living nonetheless. Pay the bills at least.

I tend to believe that when the slow finish of the pandemic is actually behind us, the pent up desire to get back to "normal" will be an over-compensation and we'll go through a period of inflated-spending in the market...so, might be good for folks like us.

Imagine tourism will be bananas for awhile.

[ND64]

7 hours ago, Tim Sewell said:

temporary disruption to their lives in order to save the lives of their neighbours

"Temporary" was a lie.

"Its just a disruption" was manipulation of public opinion. Its not a disruption anymore. Its ruining people.

"Save the lives" was wishful thinking. It wouldn't work with that level of state incompetency, and it didn't, as expected. Vietnamese didn't have to live in prison and gradually become financially destroyed to save the lives of their neighbors. 

You still talk in a way like there is two side, the science side and denier side. Sorry, that fake duality expired many months ago. The "know what to do" side have no idea what its doing:

 

[newfoundmass]

10 hours ago, Eric Calabros said:

Its like saying poor people in developed countries shouldn't call themselves poor, because some kids somewhere in India are dying because there is no enough food.

Slavery is about a situation where a person or a group of people, commonly known as master, decides how you should live. Some people have legitimately concluded that they're in that situation right now. The mathematical measurements of misery is not the subject. 

There are fewer things I hate more than false equivalency. You've confirmed everything I've said though, so thanks? 

[newfoundmass]

10 hours ago, Eric Calabros said:

Its like saying poor people in developed countries shouldn't call themselves poor, because some kids somewhere in India are dying because there is no enough food.

Slavery is about a situation where a person or a group of people, commonly known as master, decides how you should live. Some people have legitimately concluded that they're in that situation right now. The mathematical measurements of misery is not the subject. 

There are fewer things I hate more than false equivalency. You've confirmed everything I've said though, so thanks? 

[newfoundmass]

2 hours ago, Eric Calabros said:

"Temporary" was a lie.

"Its just a disruption" was manipulation of public opinion. Its not a disruption anymore. Its ruining people.

"Save the lives" was wishful thinking. It wouldn't work with that level of state incompetency, and it didn't, as expected. Vietnamese didn't have to live in prison and gradually become financially destroyed to save the lives of their neighbors. 

You still talk in a way like there is two side, the science side and denier side. Sorry, that fake duality expired many months ago. The "know what to do" side have no idea what its doing:

 

None of us live in a prison. None of us are slaves. If you think otherwise you lack perspective and, again, display your privilege. 

Those that think the efforts didn't work don't know how to read and interpret data. In the United States the states that acted quickly did significantly better than those that didn't. The top ten states that had the lowest number of infections per million all faired better than the states that didn't, regardless of the size and population, because they mandated masks, limited gatherings, put caps on how many people can be in stores, etc. This idea that it didn't save lives is absolute fiction. 

Take a look for yourself, you can sort everything by the numbers: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Countries like Vietnam faired much better because those countries have always practiced things like wearing masks because they've experienced outbreaks before. Even before the pandemic you'd see many people wearing masks in public in Asian countries. People point to these countries and make foolish statements like "Vietnam didn't have to live in a prison" without even looking into what they actually did do. Firstly Vietnam set up quarantine centers where hundreds of thousands of people were forced to quarantine. Secondly if you actually look at what those countries did, you'd realize that most of it was the same stuff people here in the US and Europe complain about: aggressive testing, aggressive contact tracing, and quarantine. Source: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-exemplar-vietnam

In short, aside from using false equivalency, you really have no clue what you're talking about and simply read stuff from other people that also don't know what they're talking about and then repeat it. 

[Tim Sewell]

10 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

In short, aside from using false equivalency, you really have no clue what you're talking about and simply read stuff from other people that also don't know what they're talking about and then repeat it. 

Kudos to you for taking the time to respond to someone who is providing, as a citation, a post from someone called wank_666 - I really couldn't summon the energy.

[IronFilm]

14 hours ago, Eric Calabros said:

"Temporary" was a lie.

"Its just a disruption" was manipulation of public opinion. Its not a disruption anymore. Its ruining people.

"Save the lives" was wishful thinking. It wouldn't work with that level of state incompetency, and it didn't, as expected. Vietnamese didn't have to live in prison and gradually become financially destroyed to save the lives of their neighbors. 

You still talk in a way like there is two side, the science side and denier side. Sorry, that fake duality expired many months ago. The "know what to do" side have no idea what its doing:

 

Remember the lie of "flatten the curve" we were sold back in 2020? 

[Tim Sewell]

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Remember the lie of "flatten the curve" we were sold back in 2020?

How was it a lie? That was certainly what happened here in the UK. Without lockdown measures the curve would have been steeper and the peak a hell of a lot higher (a nice way of saying a lot more people would have suffocated to death).

[IronFilm]

At least here in New Zealand, they engaged in the sleight of hand of swapping "flatten the curve" for "elimination strategy". 

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

58 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

At least here in New Zealand, they engaged in the sleight of hand of swapping "flatten the curve" for "elimination strategy". 

Man, I wish that I was there now (my best friend lives in Wellington).

Here in Brazil will be probably the most tragical month in the last decades. The Amazon corona variant looks VERY deadly and transmissible - we had the first 200.000 deaths in the first 11 months, and the next 50.000 in...two months.

Cities around here with 200.000 to 300.000 people had already collapsed - there are no more ICU units available. Zero. People are starting already dying waiting for a ICU unit.

I live in São Paulo, the biggest city here (12 million people), and there are no more ICU units it the 5 biggest private hospitals of the city. Public hospital will have no more units soon too. The death rate of 30-40 year old people (with no comorbities) are climbing steadily. Only in the past week, 4 relatives of friends of mine had died of Covid.

Vaccination? EUA is giving around 2 million shot per day. We have 6 million...since Jan 17th.

And our president continues to sabotage any big vaccination effort. The most available vaccine that we have is the chinese Coronavac, but it refuses to buy too much of it because it is made by a state facility from the local governor, which is his political adversary (and another SOB). It refuses to get the Pfizer one too.Only moved to get 20 million doses fron Indian Covaxin because...the negotiation have a middle company the is involved in various cases of corruption. And only shows in public without masks (even getting children in his lap), saying that masks causes "suffocation" and don't prevent Covid.

The result: Brasil is becoming an open field to Covid evolve, due to the lack of vaccination - with a low percentage of people vaccinated, it becomes easier to the virus to evolve by natural selection. We will become a threat, and probably will become pariahs in the world.

I just want to be alive in 2022, since is almost certain that I will not be vaccinated in 2021 (i'm almost 50 years old).

[MrSMW]

@Marcio Kabke Pinheiro that is really shit.

Sorry for you.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

@Marcio Kabke Pinheiro that is really shit.

Sorry for you.

Thanks. We will take care (even much more now).

In the meantime, one hospital in the south of the country bought refrigerated containers to put the dead bodies - it's morgue is already full. Another south state, Santa Catarina, have 200 people waiting for a ICU bed and 16 died today.

Will become worse, here.

[IronFilm]

On 2/26/2021 at 12:27 PM, TheDudeAbides said:

I delivered to a lady a couple months ago who hadn't been outside since March 2020. I couldn't do that. In other words, to hell with the paranoia, I would rather die free than be enslaved to my house. Said differently, I would rather live and risk dying, than survive and risk never living. As I said before, and politely I might add, that's me. Not everyone will agree.

(bolding mine)
That's not healthy at all! 
What are going to be health consequences due to many people being short of Vitamin D? 
And because they've got less physical exercise due to not going outdoors as much?
The mental health consequences due to being lockdown for months on end?

The MSM/politicians/"experts" will have a lot to answer for due to their feeding of this paranoid hysteria. 

[newfoundmass]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

(bolding mine)
That's not healthy at all! 
What are going to be health consequences due to many people being short of Vitamin D? 
And because they've got less physical exercise due to not going outdoors as much?
The mental health consequences due to being lockdown for months on end?

The MSM/politicians/"experts" will have a lot to answer for due to their feeding of this paranoid hysteria. 

If someone hasn't left their house for nearly a year they've probably got issues that extend beyond the "paranoia hysteria" that came with the COVID-19 pandemic. No one has suggested you don't leave your house, they've suggested you wear a mask, wash your hands, and maintain a distance of 6 feet. 

Regardless, you live in a country where 26 people have died of COVID-19. We're in a country where over a half a million people have died of it. It's easy to sound off and claim its paranoia when you're a world away and haven't experienced it first hand. 

[IronFilm]

6 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

If someone hasn't left their house for nearly a year they've probably got issues that extend beyond the "paranoia hysteria" that came with the COVID-19 pandemic.

People have been made to be terrified of each other. 

6 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

No one has suggested you don't leave your house, they've suggested you wear a mask, wash your hands, and maintain a distance of 6 feet. 

What I'm saying, is there hasn't been a balance in the messaging. Telling people to still go outside where they please, and enjoy the sunshine and life. 

[newfoundmass]

9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

People have been made to be terrified of each other. 

What I'm saying, is there hasn't been a balance in the messaging. Telling people to still go outside where they please, and enjoy the sunshine and life. 

The media you consume might be saying that but it doesn't match the reality that I live in every day. 

And people are going outside in nature. Last summer bikes were difficult to buy in stores because there was a rush of interest in biking and used bikes were selling for much higher prices than usual for the same reason. Here in Vermont it has been difficult to find snow shoes for the same reason. They've been telling people it's fine to do this since last spring. 

[ND64]

On 3/2/2021 at 1:25 AM, newfoundmass said:

Firstly Vietnam set up quarantine centers where hundreds of thousands of people were forced to quarantine. 

That was at its borders. But you intentionally remove the word "border" to make it support your Vermont narrative. 

[newfoundmass]

4 hours ago, Eric Calabros said:

That was at its borders. But you intentionally remove the word "border" to make it support your Vermont narrative. 

Not at all, otherwise I wouldn't have linked right to the article discussing it. They literally created quarantine centers where hundreds of thousands of people were made to quarantine, which contradicts your original point. Instead of acknowledging that fact you've decided to try and play semantics which doesn't even help your argument anyway. 

I don't even need to push a "Vermont narrative", the facts and statistics speak for themselves. 

[ND64]

On 3/9/2021 at 5:22 AM, newfoundmass said:

I don't even need to push a "Vermont narrative", the facts and statistics speak for themselves.

Your statistics doesn't tell us what Vermont did that NYC and north east states didn't. Massachusetts is state of science believers I guess.