Fuji X-T4 10bit compared to Pana S5 10bit

[mopixels]

I have an X-T3 and largely love it, but need IBIS so I'm looking into either the X-T4 or the S5.  Does anyone have direct knowledge of the durability in post of the Fuji 10bit (intra and long-gop) vs the S5's 10bit long-gop. Fuji bit rates are higher than the S5, but I've found Panasonic's encoding to be generally great and higher bit rate doesn't necessarily mean better. Thanks for posting hands on experience if you've had the chance to use both.

-Russ

Sorry if I posted this in the wrong place, please move and leave a trail if so. 🙂

[Stathman]

Fuji's 10bit is 4:2:0 vs 4:2:2 on the S5.

This means better color information in the S5's files.

Although 4k50p is 4:2:0 on the S5 also.

Ibis on S5 is significantly better. 

I don't know if intra vs long gop makes a big difference in this case. 

[deezid]

The S5 also has the advantage of way better dynamic range and low light.
Colorwise the S5 does much better in terms of tonality but F-Log and V-Log themselves are super similar. Same Bt.2020 primaries and a very similar gamma curve.

[mopixels]

Thanks for the input guys.

[josdr]

Fuji has superior colour science to Panasonic, not even something to argue about here. You do not need 4:2:2 unless using a green screen but people like to repeat it because a YouTuber said so. You can do 4:2:2 externally if you use green screen extensively.  You have the best app-c mirrorless available for video, use it.

Influence your shooting environment , deny the gear acquisition syndrome.

 

Invest in a Meike cine lens if you must buy something 🙂, the 25mm is butter coupled with the x-t3.. If you like the video look, go with Panasonic

 

[TomTheDP]

A used Panasonic S1 is a great deal and the IBIS is lovely. I never found Fuji AF reliable enough to rely on it so switching to Panasonic was no loss for me. 

You'll find the S1/S5 to be one of the best low light performers on the market. It also has some of the best dynamic range and IQ of any camera at its price range. It definitely punches above its weight. I like to think of it as a poor man's FX9. 

Fuji's 120fps beats Panasonic though. Fuji color is also nicer though not as much if you are shooting log. 

The XT3 is very capable but if you really need IBIS there is no better option than a Panasonic S1 IMO, at least in the 2k price range. 

[josdr]

He can buy an X-T4 I suppose if he really must have IBIS. With the latest firmware updates, X-T3 AF is quite good actually, I do not know up to what firmware Tom may have had difficulties (there were some). Panasonic AF, the less said the better, they are committing suicide each time, but seriously manual is the canon of the day if creatively shooting.

A used S1 is a good proposition as well, no doubt about that although if you must have Full frame the S5 seems better to my eye in the cost/performance analysis, paired with a ninja v and raw capabilities ,just to satisfy your gas demons.

Nevertheless the original point remains, do you get as much from your gear as you can? 

A new S1 may be nice and shiny for a while but are you going to lust after a RED after a while? We have all been there 🙂  

You do have a lot of choice. Factor in lenses and costs of going to another system altogether..

[TomTheDP]

7 hours ago, josdr said:

He can buy an X-T4 I suppose if he really must have IBIS. With the latest firmware updates, X-T3 AF is quite good actually, I do not know up to what firmware Tom may have had difficulties (there were some). Panasonic AF, the less said the better, they are committing suicide each time, but seriously manual is the canon of the day if creatively shooting.

A used S1 is a good proposition as well, no doubt about that although if you must have Full frame the S5 seems better to my eye in the cost/performance analysis, paired with a ninja v and raw capabilities ,just to satisfy your gas demons.

Nevertheless the original point remains, do you get as much from your gear as you can? 

A new S1 may be nice and shiny for a while but are you going to lust after a RED after a while? We have all been there 🙂  

You do have a lot of choice. Factor in lenses and costs of going to another system altogether..

Panasonic announced the S1 will get internal 10 bit 4k 60p as well as RAW out. Better deal as it has full hdmi.

I always found Fuji to have pulsing issues as well as just moments of randomly losing focus. It works great sometimes just not reliable like Sony and Canon's best implementations.

[deezid]

On 3/6/2021 at 5:12 PM, josdr said:

Fuji has superior colour science to Panasonic, not even something to argue about here.

Actually there is, the internal chroma NR on the Fuji does hurt tonality and hue separation by quite a lot while it's barely an issue on the S Series which still has too much chroma NR internally to be fair - at least there's a workaround by using PRR.

Also like I said F-Log and V-Log are very similar. Apart from the different white point and saturation differences the color coordinates and gamma are almost the same. 

[josdr]

19 hours ago, deezid said:

Actually there is, the internal chroma NR on the Fuji does hurt tonality and hue separation by quite a lot while it's barely an issue on the S Series which still has too much chroma NR internally to be fair - at least there's a workaround by using PRR.

Also like I said F-Log and V-Log are very similar. Apart from the different white point and saturation differences the color coordinates and gamma are almost the same. 

I cannot disagree with you about the log comparison but I am unsure on whether it will make much difference in the final product. In my eyes at least Panasonic is not there yet in colour interpretation. There is someone with great s5 footage in the forum but despite his best efforts he could not really avoid the video look , a problem with most cameras of course

[josdr]

On 3/7/2021 at 6:58 PM, TomTheDP said:

Panasonic announced the S1 will get internal 10 bit 4k 60p as well as RAW out. Better deal as it has full hdmi.

I always found Fuji to have pulsing issues as well as just moments of randomly losing focus. It works great sometimes just not reliable like Sony and Canon's best implementations.

Sony and Canon af is top of the food chain, no question about that.. Fuji vs Panasonic is not a contest though as long as Panasonic keeps at its antiquated af practices. Fuji is very finicky with lenses and af settings unfortunately. In the OP's case as far as AF is concerned I would think that Panasonic AF would definitely be a step back. Personally after I bought a couple of cine primes, I never bothered with AF again but of course it depends on what you shoot.

[TomTheDP]

2 hours ago, josdr said:

Sony and Canon af is top of the food chain, no question about that.. Fuji vs Panasonic is not a contest though as long as Panasonic keeps at its antiquated af practices. Fuji is very finicky with lenses and af settings unfortunately. In the OP's case as far as AF is concerned I would think that Panasonic AF would definitely be a step back. Personally after I bought a couple of cine primes, I never bothered with AF again but of course it depends on what you shoot.

Panasonic is behind Fuji but for me Fuji wasn't good enough to be relied on so going back to Panasonic wasn't an issue as I was opting to manual focus with the Fuji. It might not be a coincidence that the only two companies with excellent AF also make their own sensors. 

[rosco]

Why not just buy a gimbal or steadicam ?
I would go S5 all the way for the ibis, Anamorphic, full frame stills, and cinema features.  It's almost close to the same price, $250 difference.  Color from both cameras look good to me. 

[TomTheDP]

12 minutes ago, rosco said:

Why not just buy a gimbal or steadicam ?
I would go S5 all the way for the ibis, Anamorphic, full frame stills, and cinema features.  It's almost close to the same price, $250 difference.  Color from both cameras look good to me. 

I mean its a $500 difference as the XT4 can be had new for $1500.