Nikon 8K mirrorless camera (Sony A1 clone)

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

Looks like that the control scheme is much more D850ish oriented.

[newfoundmass]

That's a beefy boy. 

[MrSMW]

So the next ‘battle’ will be: Sony A1 vs Nikon D9 vs Canon R1?

I’m not shopping for any of them but I think I’d be most interested in the Neek-ohn if I was.

I do wonder if Panny will join the party with an S2H? If so, it better have PDAF or they may as well not bother.

[JurijTurnsek]

I'd like to see Z9 and R1 adopt the regular body like the A1 is sporting. If they won't (looks like Z9 won't), they better blow A1 out of the water.

[herein2020]

On 3/5/2021 at 7:22 PM, Video Hummus said:

I think it will be Panasonics only saving grace, that, and continuing to bring more cinema level features to smaller and more affordable cameras.

S2H: "yeah we don't have good AF... but we got a new organic sensor with 18 stops dynamic range, built in eND, false color, and Varicam color science for $4K with a flip screen and tilt screen!

 

If the conspiracy theorists are correct (I'm one of them) and Sony has in fact banned Panasonic from using CDAF or DPAF with their sensors then this would free up Panasonic to finally make the perfect camera. I know I would without hesitation buy an S2H if it had those features and CDAF or DPAF in it.....and I don't even need an S2H; my purchase would literally just be a way for me to congratulate Panasonic on their success and for me to finally hold in my hands the perfect camera.

[MrSMW]

59 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

....and I don't even need an S2H; my purchase would literally just be a way for me to congratulate Panasonic on their success and for me to finally hold in my hands the perfect camera.

There is a little bit of that in me also.

I will reward someone for a job well done just as much as I will walk away from someone/something that is taking the piss.

I used Fuji for nearly a decade despite it falling short in many areas, because there was 'enough' for my needs and I also felt a certain brand loyalty because as camera companies go, they are one of the best.

I haven't felt that with Panasonic. The tool does the job I want it to do, but their customer service in both the UK and EU has been, "we don't give a fuck". That has not endeared them to me.

The deliberate and artificial over-heating shenanigans of Canon meant that despite their tool possibly being a very high contender for my needs, as a company they can go and do one.

Just this morning, I had an issue with the particular theme of my Wordpress site. I'm not an especially (OK, not very at all) techy person and I needed some help from the theme developer. All I got back all morning was abrupt single line, condescending and somewhat cryptic, " we don't give a fuck" responses and they haven't even bothered to answer my last question. All of which just confirms that they can fuck off and my next site later this year will be Squarespace because it is actually ideal for technical fuckwits like me who just want to add content and that's all.

For every one of us that votes with our feet and wallets, there are 9 others who will not however, either because they can't be bothered, or have not yet experienced the negatives.

All I know is it comes back to one thing and that is if I ran my small business like 90%+ how many others do, I'd be out of business. Or hate the process so much I'd have to shoot myself.

[herein2020]

10 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

There is a little bit of that in me also.

I will reward someone for a job well done just as much as I will walk away from someone/something that is taking the piss.

I used Fuji for nearly a decade despite it falling short in many areas, because there was 'enough' for my needs and I also felt a certain brand loyalty because as camera companies go, they are one of the best.

I haven't felt that with Panasonic. The tool does the job I want it to do, but their customer service in both the UK and EU has been, "we don't give a fuck". That has not endeared them to me.

The deliberate and artificial over-heating shenanigans of Canon meant that despite their tool possibly being a very high contender for my needs, as a company they can go and do one.

Just this morning, I had an issue with the particular theme of my Wordpress site. I'm not an especially (OK, not very at all) techy person and I needed some help from the theme developer. All I got back all morning was abrupt single line, condescending and somewhat cryptic, " we don't give a fuck" responses and they haven't even bothered to answer my last question. All of which just confirms that they can fuck off and my next site later this year will be Squarespace because it is actually ideal for technical fuckwits like me who just want to add content and that's all.

For every one of us that votes with our feet and wallets, there are 9 others who will not however, either because they can't be bothered, or have not yet experienced the negatives.

All I know is it comes back to one thing and that is if I ran my small business like 90%+ how many others do, I'd be out of business. Or hate the process so much I'd have to shoot myself.

 

So very true; I haven't experienced Panasonic's customer service yet and if its that bad I hope I never have to because they are currently the only brand left that I still view favorably.  It does irk me how they ensured the GH5's batteries would not work with their S5 but beyond that (and AF of course), no other brand seems to check as many boxes. I was a Canon fan and had every intention of getting the R5 until the complete overheating fiasco. 

I know what you mean about Wordpress too, I've been running my websites on Wordpress for years now and can count on one hand the number of times the developers were actually helpful (twice to be exact); the rest of the times they completely blamed me for problems with their themes...to this day I am stuck with a theme that will not do certain things that I need because the developers refuse to fix the issue.

 

Unfortunately it will only get worst as society's expectations get lower and lower; everything is disposable and quantity is more important than quality. If you buy something that lasts 3yrs it is "high quality" and you recommend it to all of your friends because it lasted "so long".

[Borbarad]

Äh what Sony did sort out the ergonomics and usability? WTF? Techs are great but bodies are rubbish. Just try using the with gloves in freezing conditions ... no thanks.

Sorry, you could argue a lot for the A1 but the Z9 will be from an ergonomics and usability point in a different league. 

Actually, I don’t think Sony did themselves a favour here. The A1 is clearly aimed at the 1DX /D6 market which is basically the Wildlife, Nature Sport, Press market that relies on speed, reliability, usability and tank like build.

This is a close Circle where’s lot of money, loyalty, prestige involved... I haven’t seen that Sony even caused a dent..

Sony has gained a lot , absolutely, but that market is still elusive.
 
But. I Don’t have either  but a Olympus EM1X 

B

[pixelpreaching]

This is very strange and bizarre post.

Nikons are basically rebadged Sonys? Why would you shoot with a Nikon since Sony has a bigger (native mount) lens system? Are those serious questions? Like you don't understand why anyone would do that? Would you not say that of Canon since they don't use a sensor and EVF (maybe, I don't even know if they make the EVF, could be from Sony) from Sony? All you're talking about here is the sensor really.

You could literally apply that whole thing to Panasonic, Leica, Fuji, etc.

You do know that the manufacturer has a significant part in what the sensor will spit out and what ends up on your memory card even if they're using the same sensor, right? You like colors from Fuji? How did they do that with a Sony sensor?? You once praised the colors from the Leica SL2. I assume then the S1R has the same colors then? Why is the S1 so prone to aliasing compared to the Z6 and a73? The Z7 has a base ISO of 64 - a 2/3 stop difference from any Sony sensor (except the a7SIII).

Also, elephant in the room.... the body of the Z9 is a world apart from the a1. Maybe that's not for you. Not everything has to be.

Quote

The traditionally weak areas for Sony are pretty much now overcome. Colour science, ergonomics, menus and the ‘consumer electronics’ feel – these are not criticisms you can level at the A1, or indeed the A7S III. In fact, menus aside, even last year’s A7R IV is already much improved from where Sony where 3 or 4 years ago. What reasons will Nikon give us to invest $6K in the Z9 that are unique?

Yeah, Sony has improved things on a couple models. I can still certainly level color, ergonomics, and UI complaints at the a1. But you don't see that anyone would (possibly very strongly) prefer Nikon's ergonomics over Sony? Even though the Z9 body is entirely different? Again, would you say these things about Panasonic, Leica, Fuji, etc.? Probably not.

I don't get it at all.

[Andrew Reid]

53 minutes ago, pixelpreaching said:

I don't get it at all.

Well that much is evident!

[pixelpreaching]

27 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Well that much is evident!

So.... explain it to me? Or is it just yet another example of not applying your standards equally across the board?

[Andrew Reid]

Well the Leica SL2 brings a unique thing to the table over the Panasonic S1R tech donor. Better 10bit codec, 5K anamorphic, more video features, better EVF optics, not to mention Leica's high-end build quality, superb minimalism, impressive ergonomics, clean German design, sexy looks, that incredible brand - so it is absolutely top of the range and a very different experience to the S1R. Colour science is fantastic but Panasonic ain't bad either.

Does the Z9 look anything like an SL2 to you? If the SL2 is a Jaguar E-type then this is your Lexus from 2017. It's perfectly high-end and probably reliable but you know it's very derivative and 'of a type'. An executive saloon camera 🙂

What are you getting your pants into a twist about anyway? It's just my opinion.

You have a lot of much more interesting and original tech on the market than the Z9.

GFX 100S, 1D X III, SL2, S1H, A1, it is all quite original and unique.

This isn't.

[IronFilm]

7 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Just this morning, I had an issue with the particular theme of my Wordpress site. I'm not an especially (OK, not very at all) techy person and I needed some help from the theme developer. All I got back all morning was abrupt single line, condescending and somewhat cryptic, " we don't give a fuck" responses and they haven't even bothered to answer my last question. All of which just confirms that they can fuck off and my next site later this year will be Squarespace because it is actually ideal for technical fuckwits like me who just want to add content and that's all.

That's an issue you had with your theme though, not with WordPress. 
And was it a paid or free theme? Even if a paid theme, most of them are dirt cheap, so there isn't built into their pricing the ability to provide substantial support. 

[Andrew Reid]

And when are Nikon going to stop styling their Z series cameras after their 1 series consumer mirrorless range (RIP) in particular the viewfinder hump from the front.

Looking at the D6 next to it, and it's just so much nicer looking and professional.

[pixelpreaching]

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Well the Leica SL2 brings a unique thing to the table over the Panasonic S1R tech donor. Better 10bit codec, 5K anamorphic, more video features, better EVF optics, not to mention Leica's high-end build quality, superb minimalism, impressive ergonomics, clean German design, sexy looks, that incredible brand - so it is absolutely top of the range and a very different experience to the S1R. Colour science is fantastic but Panasonic ain't bad either.

Does the Z9 look anything like an SL2 to you? If the SL2 is a Jaguar E-type then this is your Lexus from 2017. It's perfectly high-end and probably reliable but you know it's very derivative and 'of a type'. An executive saloon camera 🙂

What are you getting your pants into a twist about anyway? It's just my opinion.

You have a lot of much more interesting and original tech on the market than the Z9.

GFX 100S, 1D X III, SL2, S1H, A1, it is all quite original and unique.

This isn't.

Wait. The SL2 is sexy German design, fine. But doesn't it use Sony parts (sensor, EVF, etc.). Your complaint about Nikon was that they're doing.... exactly that.

Yeah, you have better video options on the Panasonic S cameras (at least we assume, we know nothing about the video specs of the Z9). But you have worse video specs on an a7III or any Sony that's not a7SIII or a9.

Color science you mention. But they're the same sensor, I thought that was the issue?

Your complaint was literally "rebadged Sony" is what Nikon makes now. Not interesting tech, which is a nebulous term anyway.

So, from what I gather now... "uniqueness" is the problem. That's what you value. Many people - especially pro photographers and not gear heads - don't give a hoot. If they like Nikon's body, color, lenses, performance, whatever... then they'll use it. Uniqueness isn't a metric that working photographers ever use.

Yes, it is your opinion. As this is mine. My issue is you consistently fail to apply the same standards across the board. For example, your love of the Sigma Fp but disdain toward Blackmagic and the Pocket 4K/6K, despite all of your complaints of the latter being true (and often even worse) on the Fp.

[pixelpreaching]

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

And when are Nikon going to stop styling their Z series cameras after their 1 series consumer mirrorless range (RIP) in particular the viewfinder hump from the front.

Looking at the D6 next to it, and it's just so much nicer looking and professional.

Nikon, the only mirrorless cameras with viewfinder humps.

You know that's not like wasted space right? Almost all center-EVF mirrorless cameras have a hump, if not all. My X-T4 does. There's a reason for that....

This is what I mean about inconsistent complaints.

[ND64]

Well everybody is buying Sony sensors.. its like saying there is no differences between android phones because the cpu inside all of them is made by TSMC!

A1 sensor has its own downsides.. the big amount of data it handles has moved the noise floor. Z7ii is now the cleanest high resolution senor in ILC market. Top notch quality is kinda originality. There is a chance they apply some tweaks they used for Z7ii to A1 sensor. Also there is a chance its not Sony-made at all. Actually its Sony semi that is losing its uniqueness. First Quad pixel AF introduced by Omnivision, highest density sensor, best in class in-sensor HDR, dual ISO at any exposure, deep trench isolation, and many other features are all developed and delivered by Samsung. 

[MrSMW]

7 hours ago, IronFilm said:

That's an issue you had with your theme though, not with WordPress. 
And was it a paid or free theme? Even if a paid theme, most of them are dirt cheap, so there isn't built into their pricing the ability to provide substantial support. 

Yes I am aware it’s a theme issue and it is a bought and paid for theme...and it’s no el cheapo one either, PLUS I paid extra for support which was a cost option.

It’s flippant/dismissive 1 line responses to very succinct, clear and polite questions that irritate me.

[pixelpreaching]

1 hour ago, Eric Calabros said:

Actually its Sony semi that is losing its uniqueness. First Quad pixel AF introduced by Omnivision, highest density sensor, best in class in-sensor HDR, dual ISO at any exposure, deep trench isolation, and many other features are all developed and delivered by Samsung. 

While I don't think the first sentence is true at all, Sony does a hell of a lot of unique things sensor-wise, it is true and worth remembering that many of their unique tech has come from others - camera manufacturers too, who design sensors or modifications to existing Sony sensors.

[IronFilm]

4 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Yes I am aware it’s a theme issue and it is a bought and paid for theme...and it’s no el cheapo one either, PLUS I paid extra for support which was a cost option.

It’s flippant/dismissive 1 line responses to very succinct, clear and polite questions that irritate me.

Have you tried posting to user support forums for WordPress? As there is a great community behind WordPress supporting it.