Directional lavs?

[Benjamin Hilton]

Hey there,

I am running a small home studio with several different weekly shows using Rode Procaster mics. For one of the shows we just started (two person conversation), aesthetically it would look better to use lavs instead of the Procasters. I tried setting up with my Countryman b3s, but because of the room acoustics and phasing of two mics it's sounding pretty bad. The room is fairly decent acoustically, decent enough to sound great with the Procasters. Other than completely sound proofing the room, is there anything I can do to get better audio with lavs? Wondering if a cardioid lav or something would work better. It should be possible since they use lavs in news rooms conversations and it sounds pretty good, couldn't imagine their studios are super acoustically dead either.

 

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, Benjamin Hilton said:

Wondering if a cardioid lav or something would work better.

Too many downsides to a cardioid lavs, they're incredibly rare/niche items. 

[Benjamin Hilton]

Any suggestions as to what would help?

 

[MrSMW]

I would have thought the new Rode Wireless Go II would be well suited to this kind of thing?

It may not be the absolute ultimate in audio quality, but would otherwise be perfect with a lav mic each and hidden transmitters.

[Mark Romero 2]

QUESTION: Would putting the LAVs under the clothing of the talent help cut down on reverb / phase issues?

[jpleong]

What happens when you flip the phase of one of the mics?

Situations like this with omni lavs:

1) Position the mics as far apart as possible. Usually on the shoulders/lapels farthest from the other speaker.

2) In post, mute automate (or cut) the non-speaker's audio. Gating sometimes works.

It's tricky because they're almost completely facing each other so the omni lavs are acting like boundary mics. Do you have the budget for some booms? Like, ME64/66?

 

JP

[IronFilm]

21 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

QUESTION: Would putting the LAVs under the clothing of the talent help cut down on reverb / phase issues?

No.

20 hours ago, jpleong said:

Do you have the budget for some booms? Like, ME64/66?

Please don't. 
The bare bare minimum should be the Deity S Mic 2. 

[jpleong]

6 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Please don't. 
The bare bare minimum should be the Deity S Mic 2. 

?
(I've never used anything from Deity) what's the problem with the ME64 or 66?

[IronFilm]

Doesn't sound as good.

I started with a NTG2, then I "upgraded" (it wasn't!) to a ME66, then I got a Sanken CS3e / CS1e (and many others since!). Should've just skipped those first two and gone to something decent.

[Phil A]

5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Doesn't sound as good.

I started with a NTG2, then I "upgraded" (it wasn't!) to a ME66, then I got a Sanken CS3e / CS1e (and many others since!). Should've just skipped those first two and gone to something decent.

It's pretty difficult to know what is decent by looking at YouTube reviews with all the different opinions. On one hand I assume I have trashed ears because I often don't hear the differences they mention, on the other the microphone is only one piece in the whole chain. People say they love mic xyz but their frame of reference is not spending more than 300€ while the next person says it's trash and favors something else but it's 1k and out of the first person's budget (and maybe needs). Do you go into an interface or a field recorder? How much gain do you need? Do you stream live or can you carefully EQ, etc. in post?

Anecdotal: I wanted a mic for indoor dialog because a lot of social media content I record can utilize that, so I wanted an upgrade from the Rodeo Video Mic Pro and I tried to kill two stones by also using it for video conferencing. So I bought an Oktava 012 (my voice isn't very deep so I liked the accentuation) that I use via a Focusrite Scarlett Solo (3rd Gen). But even 30cm away from the mic I need ~90% gain on my interface so I'm a bit concerned about booming.

[independent]

Yes, you have to take mic recommendations with a bag of salt, especially from people who have strong opinions about what microphone is the greatest. That's nonsense, because a microphone's particular qualities compose only a subset of factors among many others, including the recording environment or, as you mentioned, the talent's voice. 

As you see in YouTube reviews, microphone comparisons are often not that helpful, because they're limited to that location, speaker, etc. And even then, you'll get different opinions about what sounds better.

Microphones have different pickup patterns, frequency responses, sensitivities, etc., that make one more suitable than others. All things being equal, if you're considering mics with similar characteristics, very few will be able to tell the difference between brands or models. 

This is why real sound guys aren't gear heads. There's no magic mic. Skill and knowledge are 99% of it. They'll look at the space, see what needs to be treated, look at the script, microphone placement, and pick the mic that makes sense. This is why they have a variety of mics in their bag.

Beware of any sound guy who talks too much about gear or who pimps a specific mic. He does so to make up for skill or knowledge. 

[jpleong]

This is veering a bit off-topic, so apologies OP.

Experience is the best way to review something. I'm pretty done with YouTube/Influencer reviews unless they've got a body of work to show for it. I also don't trust the NKOTB: I got burned on investing in Oktava MC-012s when they first arrived in the West as the hot-new-thing twenty-some years ago (when I should have just bit the bullet and scoured for used KM84s) and it's taken me just as long to finally accept RODE as a legitimate contender in the pro audio world after they lost credibility in the broadcast space. As a result, I take people raving/recommending Deity or other new (to me) brands with a grain of salt. But I also think that's to my detriment, too, as I'm apparently missing out on some really good new affordable kit.

To expand on my suggestion, all the ME 62/64/66s I've bought, used, or otherwise deployed are still working capturing good sounding audio over a decade after I got them. They're better sounding than the ME20/40s they replaced but nothing compared to an MKH 416 (nor do I expect them to be). They're workhorses and I recommend them with the same enthusiasm as I would an SM58 for stage vocals.