Lenses like the helios 44?

[james d]

Hi guys,

 

I bought a black magic camera last year and had enough left in the budget only for some vintage lenses, from those that I bought was the Helios, which always looks amazing to me against the Nikkors and canon FDs I purchased.

 

Recently I have finally got a mount so I can use it on the speed booster which increases the FOV somewhat but I would really like a full set of of Helios but research leads me to believe that the 58mm version is the only gem out there. To me it's got a lovely creamy/sharp look which I'm not seeing from other lenses.
 

 

Does anyone have a recommendation of glass which has the Helios look so I can begin to build a set to shoot with.

 

Thanks

[andy lee]

yes there are

 

the Carl Zeiss Planar 50mm f1.8 in Rollei QBM mount (the early version that is single coated not the HFT coated version)

 

This lens is great... it is low contrast and flares like crazy like the Helios , and it is sharp

it has a great arty cinematic look to it , the colours are a bit more muted compared to the Contax Carl Zeiss 50mm f1.7 Planar in C/Y mount. the blacks are more gray than black

 

I also pair this up with the Signa 24mm f2.8 Super Wide  II lens , its has a similar colour look to it so works well together. it flares nicely too

when you hit it with light from the front off axis.

 

Tamron 28-85mm zoom f4 has a similar low contrast flares like crazy look and work with the above lenses well

[richg101]

I'm currently developing a pair of front mounted wide angle adaptors for use on the FF58 lens (which Is a renovated helios 44).  

 

the first is a 38mm attachment (4 elements)

the second is a 25mm attachment (6 elements)

 

both are looking like they will be significantly more costly than a helios 44 due to the fact that the optical complexity and that the glass types are about as exotic as they can get.  They are designed to impart as little image degradation to the helios and instead simply widen the fov, maintaining the optical character of the helios44.  dont expect edge softness, ca or other nasties from these optics!

 

when released I will also introduce a 'Classic58' version of the Flare Factory 58, which will simply be a renovated helios 44 with uprated mechanical parts and a fresh external finish.  

 

There are simply no wide options that match the helios44 / biotar look unless you go with the old OCT18 lomo lenses - of which none can be used on a standard ef mount, or with speed boosters.  they're only adaptable to PL mount

[Bioskop.Inc]

The only one that really springs to mind is the Helios 40-2 85mm f1.5 - wide open its dreamy soft & produces the best swirly Bokeh that you'll ever see! Stopped down it is really great & produces a star-like Bokeh shape. The Helios 40-2, the 44-2 & Tair 11a were the only 3 lenses I used to use.

 

I recently discovered that they have halved in price & can be bought brand new (re-released in 2012 or just old new stock) in various mounts (Canon, Nikon or M42). This guy has a ton:

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/moscowStore/_i.html?_nkw=helios+40-2&rt=nc&_dmd=1&_sid=92107522&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14&_vc=1

 

The other usual [Russain] suspects are:

 

Mir 24 35mm f2 (MC in Nikon or M42)

Mir-1b 37mm f2.8

Jupiter 9 85mm f2

Tair 11a 135mm f2.8

 

Also, seen some good things done with the Meteor 5-1 17-69mm f1.9 (a S16mm zoom lens) - anyone got one of these & got more info on its performance?

[Sean Cunningham]

Since the Helios 44 is a copy of a Zeiss Biotar I would think wider Jena lenses would be in the ballpark.  They tend to not be as fast as the 58mm however:

 

CZJ M42 mount:

2,8/20mm Flektogon
4/25mm Flektogon
2,8/28mm or 29mm Pancolar (manufactured in Asia)
2,4/35mm Flektogon
2,8/50mm Tessar or
1,8/50mm Pancolar or
1,4/55mm Pancolar or
2/58mm Biotar
1,5/75mm Biotar or
1,8/80mm Pancolar or
2,8/80 Biometar (Planar design)
2,8/120 Biometar (Planar design) - may only be available in pentacon six (practisix) mount, adapts easily to m42
3,5/135mm Sonnar
4/135 Triotar 
2,8/180mm Sonnar or
2,8/200mm Sonnar
4/300mm Sonnar

 

 

...is it the slower speed or other properties that don't make something like this appealing, Rich?

[james d]

yes there are

 

the Carl Zeiss Planar 50mm f1.8 in Rollei QBM mount (the early version that is single coated not the HFT coated version)

 

This lens is great... it is low contrast and flares like crazy like the Helios , and it is sharp

it has a great arty cinematic look to it , the colours are a bit more muted compared to the Contax Carl Zeiss 50mm f1.7 Planar in C/Y mount. the blacks are more gray than black

 

I also pair this up with the Signa 24mm f2.8 Super Wide  II lens , its has a similar colour look to it so works well together. it flares nicely too

when you hit it with light from the front off axis.

 

Tamron 28-85mm zoom f4 has a similar low contrast flares like crazy look and work with the above lenses well

Thanks

 

Do you think you could post some samples? These options look very interesting checking they're prices on ebay,.

 

[andy lee]

what are you looking for ? are you a flare fanatic or a sharpness pixel peeker ? what style of shot are you wanting!!!

 

what do you like about the helios what characteristic?

 

these lenses are cheap

you can get the Zeiss Rollei QBM Planar on ebay -

 

this is the version you want single coated

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Carl-Zeiss-PLANAR-50mm-F1-8-Germany-made-Rolleiflex-SL35-mount-/161250022923?pt=AU_Lenses&hash=item258b40160b

 

the Sigma 24mm goes for under $50

[animan]

I loved the Helios 44 on a APSC but was a bit dissapointed to see a lot of the 'swirliness' cropped out on m43..

 

If you like swirls and centre sharpness theres some good sharp C mount lenses, including 'SLR Magic' modified versions, the 35mm f1.7 is great (but the original C mount if you know which one might be even cheaper)

[richg101]

Main things that make the Helios 44 so good:-

 

Double Gauss design dates back from the 1930's when computers were not used in the design process

 

Front optic / aperture size are slightly mismatched - the optic should be slightly bigger than it is - resulting in quite heavy vignetteing when used wide open on full frame.  the barrel distortion / swirly bokeh is so obvious on full frame sensors and can be traced back to this attribute since if the optic were wider then less of the lower quality edges of the optic would be used.

 

the helios 40 looks like a oversized helios 44.  planar design, front optic unable to accommodate the huge f1.5 aperture without using the whole front surface of the optic.

 

the only way to obtain this beautiful look is to use a planar / double gauss design.   Wides are all boring, hence why after lots of time and effort looking for a nice wide lens, its become apparent a high spec wide angle adaptor is the only way to go.

[andy lee]

Century (Schneider) make superb wide adapters I have a bunch of them , the glass is pin sharp .

They are big and heavy 72mm rears

[richg101]

Century (Schneider) make superb wide adapters I have a bunch of them , the glass is pin sharp .

They are big and heavy 72mm rears

 

I have to say, I took your advice on these - trying numerous different types.  I found none can quite deliver on full frame.  - even the huge multi element ones.  

 

what sensor are you using these on?  

[andy lee]

micro 4/3 so it only uses the Center part of the lens!!  no distortions

they are very good almost optically neutral .

 

Most of the Centurys are made for Sony Pro Video cameras so they are optimised for smaller sensors not full frame .

 

Schneider Magna Com is absolutly stunning , this a a vaiable focal length reducer used in Cinama Projection lenses

the glass is high end industial , practically optically neutral .

[andy lee]

I do really like your idea of a Helios with different wide adapters on it ,

 

I would like to see the 25mm version , as that my standard lens focal length on micro 4/3

[Cinegain]

Maybe take a look at http://www.vintagelensesforvideo.com .

 

I've got the following vintage/legacy glass myself: Pentax-M Asahi 50mm f/1.4 / Minolta MD Rokkor 50mm f/1.7 / Minolta MD 28mm f/2.8 / Zenit Helios-44M-4 58mm f/2 / Zenit Industar-50-2 50mm f/3.5 & Beck 135mm f/2.8 .

[andy lee]

I have to say, I took your advice on these - trying numerous different types.  I found none can quite deliver on full frame.  - even the huge multi element ones.  

 

what sensor are you using these on?  

 

 

so Im intrigued how have you made these wide angle adapters and can I use them on other lenses , is this your new design!! it sounds cool . especially the 25mm version - that must be a x0.45 widener to get that  focal length.

[richg101]

so Im intrigued how have you made these wide angle adapters and can I use them on other lenses , is this your new design!! it sounds cool . especially the 25mm version - that must be a x0.45 widener to get that  focal length.

 

it's a bit cloak and daggers at the moment, but they are completely new designs I've been working on with a well known optical wizard. the 38mm front is slightly stronger than .7x and the 25 is slightly stronger than .45x.  

it was the only option since no existing product like this exists for the full frame format.  Manufacturing is happening as we speak.  assembly will be undertaken here in the UK.  Schott glass.  Uk metalwork, proper job:)

[Sean Cunningham]

What would the light loss be, if any, from the adapter?

[richg101]

What would the light loss be, if any, from the adapter?

 

Less than that from an iscorama 36.  this will be measured, but it's expected to be less than 1/3rd of a stop.  The glass surfaces are designed to accommodate more light transfer than a f2 aperture requires.  the only loss will be from optic reflections, but being modern multi coated this wont be much.  One of the main criteria in the brief is for the sections to deliver similar optical degradation to what you would expect from a rama 36.  - which even on full frame, the degradations are almost nil

[Quirky]

Does anyone have a recommendation of glass which has the Helios look so I can begin to build a set to shoot with.

 

Thanks

 

Well, other than a decent copy of a Helios F2/58mm, I wouldn't bother too much about the other old Soviet era lenses. 

But to name some favourite legacy lenses like that, the old Planars and Distagons, Biogons, Schneider Curtagons  and some Pentax Takumars come to mind, in the 25mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 58mm and 135mm range.

Personally I've got a soft spot for some Minolta Rokkors, too, but they don't really look like the Helios, and they need a different adaptor. But nice vintage lenses, anyway, and not too expensive. Same goes for many Rollei and Contax/Yashica mount lenses. Fortunately even the better adapters aren't ridiculously expensive.

[andy lee]

it's a bit cloak and daggers at the moment, but they are completely new designs I've been working on with a well known optical wizard. the 38mm front is slightly stronger than .7x and the 25 is slightly stronger than .45x.  

it was the only option since no existing product like this exists for the full frame format.  Manufacturing is happening as we speak.  assembly will be undertaken here in the UK.  Schott glass.  Uk metalwork, proper job:)

Schott glass wow sounds superb!! nice one Rich