Firmware update turns Panasonic S1 into an S1H (albeit with record-time limit in demanding modes like 6K)

[Andrew Reid]

Panasonic has announced a big firmware update today.

It's especially good news for S1 owners.

Also - BRAW / anamorphic goodies coming for S1H shooters (via HDMI).

New blog post:

https://www.eoshd.com/news/firmware-update-turns-panasonic-s1-into-an-s1h-with-record-time-limit-in-demanding-modes-like-6k/

 

[Lux Shots]

So, now that I just stretched the legs of ProRes RAW on a job today, Panny goes and makes me make more choices! 😀
I think I will stick with ProRes RAW, since I can record it with my S1 and S1H.

But is there a significant quality difference between ProRes RAW and BRAW? I've heard the nightmares about stability with the BM external recorders. Has those issues been fixed yet?

[Andrew Reid]

Surprised at the S1R too...

5K... 10bit.... HGL! Practically gone and done a Leica SL2!

Release dates for downloads here:

https://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/lumix/firmware_update.html

[Jimmy G]

Thanks for the news, Andrew, I've been continually checking for this update since Panasonic announced it was coming! Woot! 😄

Most looking-forward-to the 6K, 5.9K, 5.4K modes as they'll greatly enhance my wide-angle shooting allowing for 4K punch-ins for regions-of-interest and for added post-shoot 4K panning...it'll be a good day! That, and I'll be curious if manual control over the Dual-ISO capabilities offers any benefits over the current auto-switching that occurs (i.e. can one select ISO 1600 from High-Gain 4000 ISO setting? And does it offer a better result than setting 1600 from the base ISO?) Kudos, Panasonic, for your commitment to your customers with these fabulous updates!

On the downside, however, I suppose I'll have to eat some crow, though, and invest in a Ninja V (for the time-being) to find out what 12-bit recording will offer...[BEGIN MINI RANT] Panasonic so needs to embrace internal recording (either on current models and, most definitely, on future models) at these higher bit rates for those of us who need to travel light on the trails and can't be incurring the extra weight, attachments and dangerous snag points from extraneous gear. I mean, really Panasonic, if the Ninja V uses media recording to AtomX SATA drives at Read/Write 540/500 MB/s, but you already gave us S1 owners an XQD/CFExpress PCIe card slot that can handle R/W at 1500/1700 MB/s, I'm truly not "getting" what the issues might be to dump those same dang 10-/12-bit V-LOG data bits to the internal cards?! [END MINI RANT] Um, Firmware 2.5?! Haw!

Happy (mostly) in NY, 😉

Jim

 

[JR Lipartito]

1 hour ago, Lux Shots said:

But is there a significant quality difference between ProRes RAW and BRAW? I've heard the nightmares about stability with the BM external recorders. Has those issues been fixed yet?

at fairly equal compression I think you’d be hard pressed to find much difference in quality between BRAW and Prores Raw.

BRAW’s advantage is having several lower-bitrate options, with the lowest 12:1 @4K compression lightweight enough to be recorded to fast SD cards. Some people might have got higher modes to work with certain cards too. And 12:1 still holds up very well to post-production abuse, even chroma key.

The real problem for BRAW though, are the BM Video Assists themselves. To the built-in SD card slots you’ll only be able to record that lowest bit rate option (as far as I know). For anything better you’ll have to connect an SSD to the Video Assist over USB c...that’s just one too many points of contact where things can go wrong.

So I wouldn’t get too excited about this update until BM puts out a View Assist with better internal recording media.

 

 

[Lux Shots]

1 hour ago, JR Lipartito said:

at fairly equal compression I think you’d be hard pressed to find much difference in quality between BRAW and Prores Raw.

BRAW’s advantage is having several lower-bitrate options, with the lowest 12:1 @4K compression lightweight enough to be recorded to fast SD cards. Some people might have got higher modes to work with certain cards too. And 12:1 still holds up very well to post-production abuse, even chroma key.

The real problem for BRAW though, are the BM Video Assists themselves. To the built-in SD card slots you’ll only be able to record that lowest bit rate option (as far as I know). For anything better you’ll have to connect an SSD to the Video Assist over USB c...that’s just one too many points of contact where things can go wrong.

So I wouldn’t get too excited about this update until BM puts out a View Assist with better internal recording media.

 

 

Yeah, I think that is a hard pass for me right now. Media is cheap (1 TB WD Blue SSD cost $100), and the Ninja V is cheaper than the BM Assist, not to mention the need for a USB-C hard drive feels janky as hell. For the life of me, I don't know why they didn't simply add M2 slots at best or the old reliable 2.5 " SSD drives.

Anyone know how BRAW support is in Premiere Pro?

[HockeyFan12]

For BRAW, is the color Panasonic V Log or Black Magic Gen 5? 

[Robert Patts]

6 minutes ago, HockeyFan12 said:

For BRAW, is the color Panasonic V Log or Black Magic Gen 5? 

I assume VLOG, as the review I read stated "V-Log or V709 will be selectable on the Live View monitor during RAW output.".

It does not matter...as Raw is Raw...and a simple CST node will get you where you need to be. No?

[HockeyFan12]

3 minutes ago, Robert Patts said:

I assume VLOG, as the review I read stated "V-Log or V709 will be selectable on the Live View monitor during RAW output.".

It does not matter...as Raw is Raw...and a simple CST node will get you where you need to be. No?

I'm not great with Resolve, but in my experience color space transforms don't turn the look of one camera into the look of another. I like Black Magic's color more and have been dreaming of a FF P6K-type camera.

[MrSMW]

I’m still very tempted to get an S1H as my more video-centric hybrid over my S5 that I would move to being my more photo-centric hybrid.

But then I have been offered by a friend pro photographer a mint, 1 job, S1R for 1600 euros.

The Leica SL2 is my ‘dream’ camera in every single regard except lack of a tilt screen.

A used but like new S1R at 1600 euros is like a 1/3rd cost SL2 isn’t it and I should snap his hand off?

The S5 firmware was a bit disappointing I have to say, limited to some function to switch off vertical orientation in video mode or something, but then I wasn’t really expecting anything.

 

[zerocool22]

Have to agree the S5 firmware update is disappointing. I would love BRAW from the S5 though, but not through a bulky monitor recorder, I would take a hotshoe samsung T5 sized device that records braw though(without a monitor). 

[MrSMW]

45 minutes ago, zerocool22 said:

Have to agree the S5 firmware update is disappointing. I would love BRAW from the S5 though, but not through a bulky monitor recorder, I would take a hotshoe samsung T5 sized device that records braw though(without a monitor). 

I don't know if I want, never mind need (or really even know what is) BRAW, but shooting to a hotshoe T5 wotsit is not something I have thought of before and has me thinking if there is any more general application to doing this that would work and is of any use to me?

I hate monitors. No, hate is too strong a term, - I simply do not use monitors because I wish to continue to appear more like a guest photographer than a videographer. It's just not going to happen with me, but a teeny weeny hotshoe mounted SSD I could live with, but use it for what specifically?

[zerocool22]

4 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

I don't know if I want, never mind need (or really even know what is) BRAW, but shooting to a hotshoe T5 wotsit is not something I have thought of before and has me thinking if there is any more general application to doing this that would work and is of any use to me?

I hate monitors. No, hate is too strong a term, - I simply do not use monitors because I wish to continue to appear more like a guest photographer than a videographer. It's just not going to happen with me, but a teeny weeny hotshoe mounted SSD I could live with, but use it for what specifically?

I got spoiled with BRAW the last years, now I got an S5 and I need to check whitebalance while shooting to perfection, while shooting braw when its sorta looking ok, I could always fix it in post. So WB is the main shooting benefit for me. On the editing side BRAW is really smooth on my machine vs H265 422. 

Then there is also some extra options like changing ISO in post, which I never use that much though. 

Yeah I dont like monitors as well for run and gun, because charging and swapping batteries is the worst. + the added weight +the bulkyness which doesnt let you throw your camera in your backpack and move on. Disconnect cables, batteries, rig it down, to rig it all back up again. Too much of a timewaster for me. doesnt make sense to shoot these small camera's when you have to rig them up. 

[Anaconda_]

2 hours ago, zerocool22 said:

Have to agree the S5 firmware update is disappointing. I would love BRAW from the S5 though, but not through a bulky monitor recorder, I would take a hotshoe samsung T5 sized device that records braw though(without a monitor). 

Just imagine if Atomos release a new Ninja Star for ProRes Raw - or BMD do something similar for Braw. I'd buy one, or both in an instant.

[zerocool22]

13 minutes ago, Anaconda_ said:

Just imagine if Atomos release a new Ninja Star for ProRes Raw - or BMD do something similar for Braw. I'd buy one, or both in an instant.

yeah I hope they could get them even smaller now with tech these days. Prores RAW doesnt do it for me, as Resolve doesnt support it and at this point I dont think they will implement it anymore.

[Stab]

Yep, was waiting for that. Was really happy the day it was announced. My S1's just became baby-S1H's. But really, the last updates were all great already (shutter angle / red recording indicator, etc), and this one is for me all about the anamorphic modes. Good stuff.

 

[Lux Shots]

I shot a full ProRes RAW job for a client yesterday. I was doing some gimbal work and decided I needed something a little wider, so I popped on the Panny 20-60mm lens. Wouldn't you know it, I don't have an ND Filter for this lens yet, and it was mid-day with full sun and not a cloud in the sky! I shot it at f/8 and just ran with it for a few shots anyway, leaning heavily on the ability for ProRes RAW to recover something in my nearly all white screen. ProRes RAW saved the shot for sure!

Take a look at the file before and after exposure correction.

[deezid]

25 minutes ago, Lux Shots said:

I shot a full ProRes RAW job for a client yesterday. I was doing some gimbal work and decided I needed something a little wider, so I popped on the Panny 20-60mm lens. Wouldn't you know it, I don't have an ND Filter for this lens yet, and it was mid-day with full sun and not a cloud in the sky! I shot it at f/8 and just ran with it for a few shots anyway, leaning heavily on the ability for ProRes RAW to recover something in my nearly all white screen. ProRes RAW saved the shot for sure!

Take a look at the file before and after exposure correction.

Probably just interpret as PQ/LINEAR in fcpx or Premiere. Dynamic range is exactly the same in ProRes Raw/Braw vs internal.

Only benefits are:

- no chroma denoising

- 12 bit 444

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MrSMW]

I don't know if you noticed @Lux Shots but there's banding in your picture? A big grey bar right through the centre. Or should that be gray and center? Anyway, I spotted it.

[Jimmy G]

11 hours ago, Jimmy G said:

same dang 10-/12-bit V-LOG data bits

Correction to my above statement, should read "same dang 10-/12-bit 4:2:2 V-LOG data bits".

After re-reading Andrew's article where he states, "5.9K/C4K and 4K60/50p 4:2:0 10bit internal video recording" (Bolding mine) and reexamining the official Panasonic Press Release where they provide the following breakdown...

<<

・6K(5952x3968) / 5.9K(5888x3312) / 5.4K(5376x3584) video recording mode in MOV format *¹
   -6K 24p, 4:2:0 10bit LongGOP, 200Mbps, LPCM *¹
   -5.9K 30p/25p/24p, 4:2:0 10bit LongGOP, 200Mbps, LPCM *¹
   -5.4K 30p/25p, 4:2:0 10bit LongGOP, 200Mbps, LPCM *¹

・C4K(4096x2160) video recording mode in MOV format
   -C4K 60p/50p, 4:2:0 10bit LongGOP, 200Mbps, LPCM *²
   -C4K 60p/50p, 4:2:0 8bit LongGOP, 150Mbps, LPCM *²
   -C4K 30p/25p/24p, 4:2:2 10bit LongGOP, 150Mbps, LPCM

・4K(3840x2160) 10-bit video recording mode in MOV format
   -4K 60p/50p, 4:2:0 10bit LongGOP, 200Mbps, LPCM *²

・Anamorphic(3328x2496) video recording mode in MOV format
   -4K-A 50p, 4:2:0 10bit LongGOP, 200Mbps, LPCM *²
   -4K-A 50p, 4:2:0 8bit LongGOP, 150Mbps, LPCM *²
   -4K-A 30p/25p/24p, 4:2:2 10bit LongGOP, 150Mbps, LPCM

>> (all Bolding mine)

...from here...

LUMIX FIRMWARE UPDATE - Panasonic

https://www.panasonic.com/global/consumer/lumix/firmware_update.html

...it looks like the kind folks at Panasonic have granted some of my wish/feature-request by expanding the internal 10-bit in-camera recording with some new options! 🙂

However, of note, I'm still seeing no mention of any 4K/60p/4:2:2 10-bit and 4K/50p/4:2:2 10-bit (versus 4K/60p/4:2:0 10-bit and 4K/50p/4:2:0 10-bit) internal recording options...still HDMI-out only?! >sigh<

"Small moves, Ellie, small moves"...

1997-07-11: CQ W9GFO Small Moves Contact - YouTube

Contact,(e) small moves... - YouTube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oB6NNbFHjCc

🙂