Why Gerald Undone is wrong about the Sigma Fp-L

[MrSMW]

5 hours ago, kye said:

If it had Prores, a tilting screen and some kind of stabilised options for standard focal lengths (other than the 24-104/4) then the sheer image quality would get me to swap brands

I consider it on average at least once per week.

Sometimes, several times a day…

And as someone already exclusively L Mount, maybe I should just scratch that itch and be done with it.

Original FP. The L is more stills orientated and has one too many issues for me, being e shutter only.

But the OG FP…

Cine DNG. I’d like to try it.

The lack of a tilt screen? Two options:

A. DIY the available aftermarket screen.

B. Ninja V or similar, used to tilted backwards like a massive tilt screen.

Stab?

Has electronic I think and being an owner of the Panny 24-105 f4 with OIS, that’s another option.

Or, I have the Fotodiox EF to L Mount adapter with build in VND. Whack any one of the EF Mount Tamron f1.8 primes which have VC, Tamron’s terminology for lens stab.

Only thing that still bothers me is a lack of 4K 50/60p which I use a lot.

I think if it had the latter, it would have tipped me over the edge a long time back, but still considering as I have other full frame option that do…

[MrSMW]

Oh and another stab option, freestanding monopod!

I have just invested in a new one for creative purposes, but could I easily go back to one full time as I did when I used XT3.

[webrunner5]

3 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Oh and another stab option, freestanding monopod!

I have just invested in a new one for creative purposes, but could I easily go back to one full time as I did when I used XT3.

I have considered buying one but man they look dangerous as heck to me. A gust of wind or head up ass move on my part, well you know the rest.

[Jbizz]

18 hours ago, kye said:

Nice!  I saw those articles with it on Halo and that's the perfect use-case for it in high-end productions.  Hopefully word spreads and Sigma starts to get a presence in that niche.

For me it's the image and the dynamic range that is just soooo tempting despite being a poor fit for my use-case (hand-held travel style in purely available light).  I'm still actively looking at their firmware updates, hoping that they'll drop some more goodies in there.  Otherwise maybe an FP mk2 will come and deliver some of the holes in the mk1.  

If it had Prores, a tilting screen and some kind of stabilised options for standard focal lengths (other than the 24-104/4) then the sheer image quality would get me to swap brands and sensor sizes, not an easy feat considering I can see 5 MFT cameras from where I'm sitting, plus a tray-full of lenses!

Right on. I definitely wouldn’t dump your current investment to move to an FP L. I moved from a Sony 8bit because I was working on a lot more studio, and staged outdoor productions.

It’s definitely not for someone who keeps it light and tight especially if you don’t rig your gear to crazy.

I do find it funny though when influencers knock the FP (L) and complain about having to rig it out in order to get a tilting screen and ProRes and BRaw. Then they turn around and Rig out their 10-12 bit kits… so what’s their problem then? No IBIS or AS?

Only one cam out there has both and is full frame and fits this price range, but it still doesn’t boast the same MPs nor does it have ProRes and the RS is just as bad if not worse at 4K. I’ll hold for the Sony a7 IV friends out there. Just kidding hehe.

Nothing out there really checks all the boxes like this small cam for the price. Especially for an influencer sitting in front of a cam on a tripod in a well lit studio.

I truly feel the influencers just have a job to do, there’s money in the big names, Sigma is just not there yet.

I will say I don’t think I’ll use Braw or ProRes much after shooting CINE DNG. It’s just that good. Again it’s my profession, so I have the drive space and the workflow to handle it. It’s definitely niche and not for everyone. Cheers!

[MrSMW]

9 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I have considered buying one but man they look dangerous as heck to me. A gust of wind or head up ass move on my part, well you know the rest.

You would never leave one unattended, - they are not intended as a direct replacement for a tripod, but an alternative tool closer to a steady pair of hands.

V. useful at weddings for entrances and exits etc as a one man hybrid band because I can shoot video with one camera freestanding whilst shooting stills on a second body handheld, then scoot out of the way quickly whereas a tripod less so, especially if the space is tight.

I’ve been using a Sirui for the last 5/6 years but am replacing it with one from iFootage called the Cobra Strike 2. Or Cobra 2 Strike…or something.

I don’t think they make it anymore and didn’t seem to get around to making a replacement but I have chosen it because it is the only one I can find that has a single twist, medium height, telescoping up and down movement.

I’m not sure why this is not more popular than the more ‘traditional’ 3x click or twist option as it’s a single action?

It arrives next week and unless there is a reason I have not yet seen, will not only be switching to using it, but using it more extensively.

And that leads me back to the Sigma FP because there is another stability option, the gimbal.

I have the Zhiyun Crane M3 which is my third unused gimbal.

I like the idea of the things.

I hate the reality of the things.

Doing some research, I came across numerous ‘monopod moves vs gimbal’ videos and most of them are the same trash, but one stood out and he used the monopod I am getting and that convinced me;

A. To draw a line under gimbals forever and just admit they are not for me. Anyone want to buy an unused M3?

B: Up my video moves repertoire with the creative use (but not overuse) of a monopod.

And carry on wrestling 24/7 with whether to get an FP or not… 🤪

What is stopping me right now other than the lack of 4K 50/60p?

The S1R, the least video-orientated of the Panasonic S cameras.

How so?

Well I was loaned an FP-L from Sigma France last year and liked it in so many ways…but it fell short in others and was not going to be the stills or hybrid camera I needed.

Then a colleague had a mint S1R basically unused, up for sale at a stupidly low price.

Apart from the sensor (both size 47mp and something about how it renders, it being different to the 24mp in all the other S cameras), it was the S camera with the least appeal to me.

I still don’t like the position of the on/off switch, though have got used to it.

I still think the rectangular top screen that lights up orange is a bit naff (compared with the black or white classy square S1H).

But, alongside the superb stills, a clear cut above anything any other 24mp S camera can produce, it’s actually the video side that has surprised me.

In original spec, it was OK, but a firmware upgrade a while back introduced 5k 30p.

OK, it’s 3:2 format, it’s pixel-pixel, it can be used in HLG but has no log option and can only record long GOP for 15 minutes…but in my opinion, it’s the nicest footage coming out of any S camera shooting a profile.

How so?

Dunno, but suspect it’s a combo of the 5k being better than both the 4K and 6K and the different sensor that is also used in the Leica SL2 and Q2 plus it’s 200mbs and 4-2-0 with the Flat profile make it great SOOC.

IMO, it does have that elusive ‘filmic’ quality with a mild grade using Film Convert, but even SOOC with a few settings tweaks.

It’s my go to now for run & gun video and I have S1H and S5 for the times I want 4k 60p.

Compared with the FP-L…

Cheaper to find and by used.

Bigger and heavier no question, but with smaller primes, not especially so at all.

Mechanical & e shutter do no stills banding issues.

Tilt screen!

Much better battery life. I rarely get through anything more than 1.5 batteries per camera over a typical 10-15 hour shoot, with just the one change fairly late on more as a precaution than anything.

Wow, this has been a long coffee ramble this morning, but hey, these are my experiences and thoughts!

[kye]

2 hours ago, Jbizz said:

Right on. I definitely wouldn’t dump your current investment to move to an FP L. I moved from a Sony 8bit because I was working on a lot more studio, and staged outdoor productions.

It’s definitely not for someone who keeps it light and tight especially if you don’t rig your gear to crazy.

I do find it funny though when influencers knock the FP (L) and complain about having to rig it out in order to get a tilting screen and ProRes and BRaw. Then they turn around and Rig out their 10-12 bit kits… so what’s their problem then? No IBIS or AS?

Only one cam out there has both and is full frame and fits this price range, but it still doesn’t boast the same MPs nor does it have ProRes and the RS is just as bad if not worse at 4K. I’ll hold for the Sony a7 IV friends out there. Just kidding hehe.

Nothing out there really checks all the boxes like this small cam for the price. Especially for an influencer sitting in front of a cam on a tripod in a well lit studio.

I truly feel the influencers just have a job to do, there’s money in the big names, Sigma is just not there yet.

I will say I don’t think I’ll use Braw or ProRes much after shooting CINE DNG. It’s just that good. Again it’s my profession, so I have the drive space and the workflow to handle it. It’s definitely niche and not for everyone. Cheers!

Amusing comment about the influencers rigging out their cameras.  I think if you gave them a camera, asked them why they rigged it, fixed that thing so the camera did it without needing rigging, then went around that loop half-a-dozen times I think you'd find they'd get to a point where they'd still rig it but wouldn't be able to tell you why (or would give you some stupid answer that is fluff like personal preference).  Ultimately, I think the "unknown last answer" as to why they want to rig things up is that without a rig they don't feel as important or as "professional" as they feel with a rig.  Hardly any of them would admit this and most probably don't even know it themselves, but I think it's there, underneath all the other reasons that get thrown around.

I must admit the A74 caught my eye, just out of sheer dynamic range per dollar.  Sony has gotten their colour science sorted since the original days of the A7S when everything was green - now they are almost indistinguishable in a blind test between a Sony and Canon when the footage from each just has the official LUT put on top.

For my purposes, I really want Prores HQ in downsampled 1080p from a camera.  The GH5 has the 200Mbps 10-bit 422 ALL-I h264 mode that's pretty good, but I'd prefer Prores if I can get it in a camera.  It's partly for the file-sizes, but it's also for the ease of editing on my laptop and not needing to generate proxies.  For some reason I've seen that the Prores from cameras that do it is much better looking than the h264 or h265 from cameras that use those codecs.  I'm not sure if it's the processing that the cameras do (after all, only the more professional cameras use prores, so maybe they sharpen and NR far less) but the experience in post is very different when grading, and I much prefer the more analog film-like aesthetic rather than the hyper-modern aesthetic.

I'm contemplating moving to shoot 48p with a 1/60s shutter.  On a 24p timeline this would allow me to either get real-time playback with a 144 degree shutter (and have the NLE only use every second frame), or conform the 48p to 24p (using every frame) and get 50% slow-motion with an almost 288 degree shutter.  Those shutter angles would give the real-time footage a relatively neutral aesthetic, and give the 50% speed footage a dreamy slightly surreal aesthetic, but would allow me to choose which aesthetic I use in the edit once I get to post-production.  
There are a lot of times when I'm out and hit record and I don't really know what the shot will be, so I can't really decide before I hit record.  I have been in an Italian town square and hit record and been getting a shot of my friends eating ice-cream in the sun and talking and then I see the flock of birds get startled by a little kid running and so follow them as they fly overhead and around the square waiting for the ground to be safe again.  Another example is when I'm shooting a group of people talking and one of them flashes a smile that only lasts a second or two.  One part of those shots works better in real-time with audio and the other in slow-motion without it, and shooting 48p 1/60s would give me the ability to choose in post, or even transition in-between them if I was editing in a particularly stylistic fashion.

That will depend on what camera I end up with though, as not many cameras shoot 48p.  I could put it in PAL mode and shoot 50p for a 25p timeline, or even 60p for a 30p timeline, or even 60p for a 24p timeline and a 3:2 pulldown but I'm not that keen on any of those, as my other cameras all have 24p but not 25p, so I'd end up with 24p vs 25p audio sync issues. I've recorded footage in 60p and not liked the horrible bitrate options and I've recorded 24/25p and tried time-stretching the footage in post, but neither gives a result that is worth having the option of the slow-motion footage.  These days most of my shots are normal speed, static compositions (with the occasional slow pan/tilt) so that's the priority, but it would be nice to have the option for the odd shot where its warranted.

[FHDcrew]

2 hours ago, kye said:

For my purposes, I really want Prores HQ in downsampled 1080p from a camera.

Heck yes that is the best shooting format ever. I do it all the time with my Z6. You could get a cheap ninja star, and on practically any camera with separate hdmi output settings, can select 4k as the record format but set 1080 as the hdmi output format. Now you have oversampled Prores hq 1080p.  Just no slow motion, which I don’t care about b

[FHDcrew]

You could even get this from a Sony a7iv when using this setup. Gerald Undone uses this same principle on the Sony A1 to get 8k down sampled to a ninja v.