Why Gerald Undone is wrong about the Sigma Fp-L

[BTM_Pix]

The problem with the L mount alliance (aside from the clearly reluctant Leica not fully playing ball over compatibility of adapters) is that Sigma have created a really comprehensive set of high quality affordable lenses for it and not put OIS on any of them, aside from the long telephoto.

Its annoying as I have Leica full frame and APS-C cameras that could really have benefited from it but the most obvious beneficiary would have been my FP.

Thats what makes it bewildering really as Sigma would have took away a big objection about their own camera had they put OIS in any if these lenses.

As the junior partner, I suspect they might have been blocked by the other two.

 

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

The problem with the L mount alliance (aside from the clearly reluctant Leica not fully playing ball over compatibility of adapters) is that...

...apart from sharing the lens mount, there doesn't seem to be much 'alliance' full stop!

Maybe the 'idea' is they each cover their own segment with little crossover, but as you point out, it leaves each of them a little wanting in several regards:

Leica seem opposed to any form of tilt screen. Error IMO.

Panny (so far at least) steadfastly won't go PDAF for whatever reason.

Sigma make great lenses and the absence of OIS as a Panny user doesn't bother me (though I can see why it would you) but their camera has numerous omissions. For my needs.

I've just spoken to them and they won't loan me one again so back to the drawing board.

Under consideration as a lightweight stills unit within the L Mount 'alliance' is:

FP-L either used full frame or APSC crop.

Leica CL or TL2. I used and was very happy with Fuji APSC until quite recently and my small collection of f2/f2.8's would work very well on either of these.

The TL2's especially are well under 1k now, used but 'as new', could very well suit my needs.

The Q2 is probably off the list now as I could buy 4x TL2's for the same price and have far more flexibility with even a single TL2 and a small bag of lens options.

A CL or TL2 paired with the Sigma f2's at 20mm, 35mm and 65mm would make me a nice set of '30/50/100' in crop mode.

I can't find a used FP-L for sale from anywhere I'd trust so maybe will pick up a TL2, have a play and I can always sell it on if it doesn't work out for very little loss...

[BTM_Pix]

I have the original T and the prices of the TL2 are tempting. The CL is the one that people are after so the TL2 seems to have dropped in price at a higher rate than normal for a Leica. 

I wouldn't be without the Visoflex for it though so I'd budget for one of those if I was going at it from scratch which puts it into CL territory.

If its for stills then the faster fps and higher mechanical shutter speed of the CL would also swing it.

Video wise they are much of a (limited) muchness but the bigger LCD of the TL2 and the CL not having an HDMI port swings it the other way.

I'd be tempted to hang on for a used FP-L with the EVF-11 over either of them though.

 

[MrSMW]

I ordered an 'as new' silver TL2 for just over 900 euros.

I did look long and hard at the CL and have done on and off for the last few years, but in the end decided I wouldn't use the viewfinder anyway and so the bigger 3.7" rear LCD of the TL2 would suit me better.

1/4000th vs 1/8000th mech shutter doesn't bother me either.

Should be here in a couple of days and I plan to use it at my next wedding as I once did the original X100 when it first came out and that is as a discrete candid option when I don't wish to be sticking my S1R in their faces.

The very first time I used it, I fell in love with using the X100 like this next to my big Nikon D3S's...until the battery ran out by the end of bride prep.

I'm going for the same thing 11 years on.

20mm f2 Sigma to work like a '30' and 65mm f2 for the long stuff my 28-70mm on the S1R can't reach without resorting to crop mode itself.

If it only ever gets used for these 2 jobs, it will have served it's purpose, but as I have the Sigma 18-50mm f2.8 crop lens, I will probably just stick that on it it as a walkabout 27-75 because I hate the Sony ZV1 I have for stills. 

Should be fun if nothing else, but actually I will expect it to earn it's keep.

Yep, would rather have an FP-L, but double the budget and can't find one and I have a stills only wedding next week that would be perfect to try the TL2.

Ultimately, I'll probably just hold out until Panny either releases a rangefinderesque full frame ILC, or the next gen Sigma FP. Or something else entirely, but I hope one of the two come out with something in the next 12 months. I can wait...

[ODEN]

Sigma fp L is the best tiny low weight portable stills and videocamera in its size class. I had a Sony a7riv for 2 years but bulky, heavy and hard to travel with. Most of the time I use manual focus shooting landscapes on tripod. According to me Sigma fp L is the best quality portable camera that exist. Remember that no camera is better than the one you can have with you most of the time. A bulky camera stay home more often IF you are not a professional photographer. Gerald dont mention the portability att all because he is a professional photographer. For all amateurs Sigma has an edge. 

[Andrew Reid]

3 hours ago, ODEN said:

Gerald dont mention the portability att all because he is a professional photographer. For all amateurs Sigma has an edge. 

You're right apart from one thing. Gerald isn't a professional photographer. He isn't even an amateur photographer.

[nathlas]

4 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

You're right apart from one thing. Gerald isn't a professional photographer. He isn't even an amateur photographer.

He is great reviewer

[PannySVHS]

I had been thinking that too @nathlas
But then I must say, I don't enjoy to watch what he is reviewing, which prevents me from buying this stuff. Bought my used S1 two and a half years ago due to Andrews written image quality review and deezids recommendation besides other peoples insights.

[webrunner5]

There are not many Great Photographers or Videographers in the whole world. Both are hard as heck to stand out in. I think you need to be a better Photoshop expert than a great Photographer. Same goes with say being a wiz in Resolve or Premier for video. It Ain't easy as they say.

I personally like Gerald Undone presentation; it is different than the rest of the pack

[PannySVHS]

I like his presentation and reviews though. @webrunner5
 🙂 Beyond that, what did i learn from Gerald? Hmm. Dont dislike his stuff. Very well made, just content wise I am not in the target group as i read a german site for some hard facts and i am more into finally using my older gear than buying a new Canon or Sony. Bought an used Eos M a couple weeks ago. That's gonna be a great joy to play with!

I love Markus Pix' way of using gear though i for sure wont buy a Panny G100. And i am getting more out of his videos than u would have assumed by the thumbnail. Or maybe so. Great joy and some good infotainment. 😊

 

[Thomas Hill]

Here's a chunk from a lengthy blog post by Kirk Tuck. If you don't follow him, he's a long-time photographer who does some video and this post is photo-focused:

Quote

 

What's the trick? Well, it just has better looking files than any other camera I own --- at any price. That's a pretty neat trick, right? It doesn't have a built in EVF. There's recently released, add-on EVF but it's kludgy and ergonomically a non-starter. The fp doesn't sync with flash at any speed faster than 1/30th of a second and, if you use the highest quality raw file setting (14 bit), the fastest flash sync speed sinks down to a miserable 1/15th of a second. The focusing mechanism is strictly the much maligned contrast detect AF only. And yet.....the files. In either Jpeg or Raw. The best I've ever gotten out of a digital camera. Ever. 

So...who would put up with all the knocks on this camera instead of buying a "safe" and somewhat reliable Sony or Canon or Nikon? Or Leica for that matter? I guess it would be someone who really likes the look of the files and is willing to forgo comfort, convenience and logical workflows to get the good stuff. 

No. Not the "good stuff." The great stuff. 

 

https://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/2022/05/the-real-reason-to-use-one-camera-over.html

[webrunner5]

Yeah, Sigma cameras have Always in some fashion been a total pain the ass to shoot. But out of the corner of your eye you look over and keep picking one up to use. Their output has always been, well different, but for the money the best you are going to get. Detail has always been their claim to fame.

[webrunner5]

The first picture in the album was taken with a Sigma DP1 I had. Red was sort of a tough color for them to reproduce, but it is close to what it was. It is of a 2008 350Z Nissan Nismo I had a few years ago. Only like 1400 of them in the whole world.

 

[BTM_Pix]

3 hours ago, Thomas Hill said:

The focusing mechanism is strictly the much maligned contrast detect AF only

Being pedantic but, as the thread relates to the FP-L rather than the FP that he’s referring to, then, unlike the original, it actually does have phase detect AF.

Amongst the hand wringing about L mount cameras only having contrast based AF, the FP-L having phase detect AF flies under most people’s radar.

It might be shit of course but still it does have it 😀

 

 

[kye]

1 hour ago, BTM_Pix said:

It might be shit of course but still it does have it 😀

Good thing it's not a Panasonic camera - otherwise people would be sharpening their knives ready to tear it apart....  

[Andrew Reid]

On 5/24/2022 at 6:36 PM, nathlas said:

He is great reviewer

My Sigma Fp-L is coming tomorrow so we'll see how accurate a reviewer Gerald is 🙂

[MrSMW]

I made the S1R my 'FP-L'.

Bigger and heavier sure, but; better handling, IBIS, 4k 50/60p (albeit 8 bit), tilt screen, mechanical shutter so banding isn't ever even a consideration.

But I do love the idea of an FP...just for my needs, it's neither FP or FP-L much as I wish it.

Please please please Panny, if you do bring out a next gen S line, also add a rangefinderesque body into the line up.

A rangefinderesque version of the S1R/S1H = phwoar in my book 😀

Or Sigma please please please make a next gen FP and address at least some of the main concerns.

I think the e:shutter only can be got around by more processing power a la Z9, the handling can be by aftermarket stuff so not a 'real' issue, but the tilt screen would make an enormous difference (I know there's an aftermarket jobbie, but honestly, could you be arsed/risk it?) and for me, 4k 50p is my go to.

Fingers crossed for something from someone, some time in the future...

[Andrew Reid]

How do you find the AF in 4K/60p on the S1R? Better than S1 in 24p I take it?

How's the 8bit holding up and can you yet activate VLOG in 4K/60p? Or just CineLike D?

I've been tempted by one for a while as it is basically a Leica SL2 for half price.

[PannySVHS]

Afaik no VLog on the S1R, but HLG with the "latest" firmware update. @Andrew Reid

I don´t know regarding the S1R, but 8bit on the S1 holds up pretty well, though the bandwidth and the codec itself make it no contest compared to the 10bit 422 150mbit masterpiece of a codec on the S1. (200mbps in 60p).

[MrSMW]

12 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

How do you find the AF in 4K/60p on the S1R? Better than S1 in 24p I take it?

How's the 8bit holding up and can you yet activate VLOG in 4K/60p? Or just CineLike D?

I've been tempted by one for a while as it is basically a Leica SL2 for half price.

I don’t use the video side of my S1R’s too much to be honest Andrew.

My set up is:

S1H 100% video, cine lens 

S5 100% video, tripod longer duration stuff, any tracking elements.

S1R’s primarily stills but will flick over to video if there’s a need…such as there was the other week when I had an oh shit moment and a full card in the middle of something with the S1H and spare card was in another building across a lawn. No problem, just flipped to the S1R and shot it hybrid.

I can’t remember off hand what options it has for video as I shoot the natural profile.

It’s all packed away for tomorrow’s shoot but can check back soon on that.

Otherwise great bit of kit and SL2 was the other choice as you might remember when you were selling yours.

Less than 1/2 price SL2. I picked my first one up, mint/basically unused off a colleague for 1600 euros. The second off MPB for 1700 euros ‘excellent’ but more like new to me.

I don’t like the position of the on off switch or the orange top screen lighting, but otherwise it just feels right in the hand, robust, does the job. Superb files.