Sony A7S 4K full frame mirrorless camera announced Sunday at NAB?

[Darktide Media]

I have used the GH3 and Canon FD 500mm lens to grab some good photos like this one, it will take time but still there if you really want it. 

 

 

 

http://500px.com/photo/47170748?from=user

[Andrew Reid]

Canon 600mm F4 IS is $12,000.

 

How can anybody complain about consumer stuff topping out at 300mm with a straight face.

 

With 4K you have extra cropping ability. A 1920x1080 box from the GH4's 16MP sensor gives you same detail as 5D Mark III but has something like a 5.6x multiplication factor on the focal length.

So actually 300mm = 1680mm in crop mode on the GH4. Much longer reach than a 5D Mark III video mode with that $12k lens.

[ajay]

Actually 300mm on a 2x is not. Minimum 400mm on a 2x sensor. I do primarily birds. I have thought numerous times about the 100-300, but I haven't seen the detail out of that lens that would warrant buying it. If Pany had the same sharpness on the 100-300 as they do on the 35-100, I'd go for that, but still it falls short for what I do.

 

Also, for stills I'd rather have something with a longer reach. Cropping a cropped sensor leads to more noise, but primarily I plan to use the GH4 for 4k video and stills are secondary.

 

Andrew, if you could see the incredible clarity of using the GH3 with the Canon 600mm f/4 lens, you'd want one too. I use this combo all the time but yearn for IS and aperture control.

[Leica50mm]

i don't remember Arri  film cameras having focus peaking, wave forms, barely a video tap and yet somehow the accomplished the greatest movies ever made.  I think people are really spoiled .  

[Andrew Reid]

Well a $12k lens is going to be clear isn't it? If it wasn't I'd be very upset ;)

 

I think you should try the 100-300 in 1080p crop mode (or 4K mode and crop in post) and that 1680mm maximum reach whilst maintaining full HD should satisfy. Last time I used the 100-300mm I remember sharpness was pretty good.

 

If it doesn't, then fair enough. No amount of consumer gear is going to be good enough.

 

You might want to consider Sony A7R + the $12k Canon 600mm for stills though... 36MP would help.... and for video wait for the Smart EF adapter for Micro Four Thirds & shoot 4K with the Canon on the GH4.

[ajay]

Alright Andrew. You raise some valid points. I'll give the 100-300 a try. Bottom line is the GH4 is a real game changer. I haven't experienced anything in the camera world as exciting as this in years. Thanks for all your hard work on bringing us some great sample video and comparisons.

[Andrew Reid]

I still think the 600mm will be sharper obviously, but putting the 600mm in front of a Canon video mode will lose you a lot of sharpness and full frame will lose you a lot of reach, so if you are shooting 1080p at 600mm on full frame, the sharpness and reach of such an expensive lens can get a little wasted.

 

4K will gain whatever you lose in terms of sharpness with the much cheaper 100-300mm OIS.

[ajay]

5D III RAW + 600mm = Amazing. My ultimate goal however is to shoot 4k for its flexibility and ability to make pics from the frames. I will be watching to see what Sony announces on Sunday and who knows what other cameras will be announced at NAB. IF Sony can come close to the GH4, I'll probably switch direction just for the adapter compatibility. I'm really frustrated with Metabones. I have written them numerous times, but no new news on their M43 to EF adapter. I'm not sure what the delay is, but they could sell a whole bunch of those adapters.

[Andrew Reid]

I must say, Sony should be commended for their approach to adapters. They even display them on cameras in some stores and sell Novoflex adapters in their Berlin flagship store at the Sony Centre.

 

Perhaps Metabones have found problems with Canon or Panasonic which have delayed it.

 

I am sure they are trying their upmost to get them done and shipped.

[Andrew Reid]

I think the rumoured 12MP is a genius decision by Sony. A real gap in the market for low light and lower resolution camera with amazing video.

 

Just tweeted this but bears repeating...

 

Nikon D3S is 12MP like rumoured A7S. Horizontal pixel count on that was 4256. Not gonna be a big crop to 4096 4K video on A7S

[theSUBVERSIVE]

I dont see how anyone on this forum has the nerve to talk about the GH4 just because a rumored camera is talked about. I think no one on this forum has seen the A7r and very few have seen the GH4. I hate to come on here and read this stuff about a rumor killing a new camera. In what world?? Just because it doesn't fit your bill as a good camera? For some the GH4 will be the camera to go with. I have talked with many and they all agree the GH4 is a wildlife dream.. Grab some long glass, make it longer with the GH4 crop and then shoot 4K and pull frames or shoot 12fps in RAW mode. If you dont like a camera dont get it simple as that. 

 

You should not mind but this is the Internet, the land of overreactors. They don't really mean a thing anyway.

[JohnBarlow]

May this have clean HDMI ala A6000?

[Andrew Reid]

In theory 4K over HDMI works and GH4 has it.

 

If this had 10bit 4K over HDMI as well then great.

 

If not and the internal Sony codec sucks then I will be sticking with GH4, full frame or no full frame :)

[skiphunt]

I am sure this is something we all struggle with to some degree. Evolving technology seems to strengthen a sort of compulsion in me to wait for that perfect camera. It becomes more and more difficult to feel good about using the gear I currently have, as my mind wonders about the gear I could have tomorrow...and what that could bring to my creative process. 

 

Cinema, like any art form, requires a specific set of tools. As a woodworker, it's obvious that the quality of my tools has a huge impact on the final quality of my work. The same is true with video work. 

 

I think, for those of us who are perfectionists in our work, that there is a valid reason to put off shooting a certain project, until we are confident that our tools will be able to produce the quality of work that we envision. 

 

The frustration stems from the fact that our art form is relatively new, and the tools are still rapidly evolving. Analog film has shown us what is possible when we are able to capture the real world as we see it, without losing much in translation... Digital is slowly allowing that quality to be widely accessible. 

 

This is a very exciting time for reasonably priced digital video. And it is also a bit of a pain in the ass, as we all ride the line between waiting and creating. 

 This is pretty much why I went with the Nikon D5300 despite Andrew basically taking a huge crap all over it. It got me what I needed now so I can go shoot while I wait for something that exceeds or meets my needs later. Plus, it's an awesome lightweight stills camera for when I get a better video/cinema camera it will still be useful to me as a stills photographer who owns Nikon glass. I would have been really pissed had I heeded the suggestions to spend the extra money on a GH3 or Pocket Cinema with all the required extras now that I know what the GH4 can do and what the A6000 "might" do once it's released. 

 

You just can't fall for all the prerelease excitement on ANY site. Some site admins get paid to promote, other's get paid for ads, some get free gear and pre-production gear they ultimately get the keep, etc. Point being... if a manufacturer was giving ME free gear, or giving ME sneak peaks on what's coming, or paying me outright via online ads, etc. I'd be hard pressed to say anything negative about their line. 

 

Truth is, I have no idea how folks who run any of these sites keep the gears greased. But, find it hard to believe they're investing the time and hosting bills as a hobby alone. ;)

[Andrew Reid]

 This is pretty much why I went with the Nikon D5300 despite Andrew basically taking a huge crap all over it. It got me what I needed now so I can go shoot while I wait for something that exceeds or meets my needs later. Plus, it's an awesome lightweight stills camera for when I get a better video/cinema camera it will still be useful to me as a stills photographer who owns Nikon glass. I would have been really pissed had I heeded the suggestions to spend the extra money on a GH3 or Pocket Cinema with all the required extras now that I know what the GH4 can do and what the A6000 "might" do once it's released. 

 

You just can't fall for all the prerelease excitement on ANY site. Some site admins get paid to promote, other's get paid for ads, some get free gear and pre-production gear they ultimately get the keep, etc. Point being... if a manufacturer was giving ME free gear, or giving ME sneak peaks on what's coming, or paying me outright via online ads, etc. I'd be hard pressed to say anything negative about their line. 

 

Truth is, I have no idea how folks who run any of these sites keep the gears greased. But, find it hard to believe they're investing the time and hosting bills as a hobby alone. ;)

 

I don't get paid to promote anything.

 

I do believe I was first to sing the praises of the D5200. When the D5300 came out it was way too small a step to be considered "golden", especially after all the revolutions of the previous year such as raw on the Canon DSLRs and Blackmagic Pocket ProRes.

 

Now the GH4 is here and all that nice Nikon glass you have can go on the Speed Booster. You could shoot 4K with the same effective sensor size as the Nikon D5300, with an extra stop of low light performance, for under $2000.

 

Look to where the ball is headed not to where it has been if you wanna catch it.

 

If you don't want to catch it then stick to whatever works for you, just don't bother us with it :) It's boring.

[Andrew Reid]

Well I know for sure I haven't seen any GH4 4K footage that's better than the AX100, and that's with $8000 lenses in the hands of professionals.

 

I'm curious what AX100 footage looks better than the GH4. Really curious.

 

Was it the bendy trains that did it for you?

 

And you do realise that 90% of the look is defined by the lens, and with the AX100 you only have one!

 

F0.95 vs F2.8... hmmm. Quite a difference.

 

Cooke vs consumer camcorder zoom lens. Hmm.

 

I'm not convinced AX100 has the imaging prowess over the GH4 and the codec is a full 40Mbit short of the GH4 in 4K too.

[richg101]

It's awesome and also confusing.  I assume the 1.1x crop is relating to the 16:9 mode so the sensor will remain 36mm wide I'd hope

 

My heart sank when I saw X-AVC-s rather than XAVC.  Sony's codec choice puts this in consumer territory, when the 12mpx sensor suggests a degree of careful thinking by the designers.  Again, Sony techs making a deadly machine then crippling the camera at the software stage in order to prevent it harming their pro division:(  

 

That said, I have always found AVCHD had a lot harder time than it deserved and as the FS100 and FS700 have shown, the 24mbs at 24p mode creates incredible things for such a small file size.  I'm pretty sure the 4k xavc-s (if it is shabby) will benefit from a downscale to very crisp FullHD.  

 

Damn, if I hadn't had a taste of how awesome a 36mpx full frame sensor is for stills I'd be jumping on this regardless.  Alas, I love the A7R too much to part with the 36mpx stills

[skiphunt]

I don't get paid to promote anything.

 

I do believe I was first to sing the praises of the D5200. When the D5300 came out it was way too small a step to be considered "golden", especially after all the revolutions of the previous year such as raw on the Canon DSLRs and Blackmagic Pocket ProRes.

 

Now the GH4 is here and all that nice Nikon glass you have can go on the Speed Booster. You could shoot 4K with the same effective sensor size as the Nikon D5300, with an extra stop of low light performance, for under $2000.

 

Look to where the ball is headed not to where it has been if you wanna catch it.

 

If you don't want to catch it then stick to whatever works for you, just don't bother us with it :) It's boring.

Never said you get paid to promote, or that you get free gear to test and keep, or any kickbacks or favors or any kind, did I? I said none of us actually know what the real motivation of any person running any site that tests and promotes gear. So, unless it's a user telling us about gear they bought for themselves and want to report how the gear is performing for them in real life situations, then we really don't know much about the gear until it is out in the wild. 

 

Andrew, you have a way of turning a perfectly reasonable response into something offensive. Are you aware of that? If so, is it intentional? If so, what is it exactly that you gain from it?

 

Anyhow, if I didn't value your reports and tests, I wouldn't bother with frequenting your site. I appreciate the time you take, but I take all "review/promo" site opinions with a healthy grain of salt until I've read data from users who've spent their own cash and are using the gear in their livelihood. Until then, it's very nice to have previews from folks like yourself who're blessed to have early access to all the gear and evidently don't have to keep forking over their own hard earned moo-lah.

 

Cheers, and thanks for the advance on the GH4. It is looking like what I'll eventually end up with after all the actual user data is in and the other competitors have played their hands.

[JohnBarlow]

If this has clean HDMI @ 4:2:0 @8 bit, I will be picking one of these up after the price has settled - maybe this time next year.

 

12mp FF is too good to turn down