Sony A7S 4K full frame mirrorless camera announced Sunday at NAB?

[Andrew Reid]

2. Also Andrew, please don't jinx the GH4. I know you are really excited about it, SO ARE WE! It was a light hearted dig at your obsession. Has the time you've spent in Germany robbed you of your humour? I get it's your forum, but take a chill pill.

 

Time spent on this forum has robbed me of my patience man... Obsession? How about being more thankful for the info and less insulting.

[Andrew Reid]

I bet it will have the same 4K specs as the Sony 4K AX100 with XAVC S 4K @ 24 and 30 fps on SD cards with exFAT file system.

 

Most likely. Suddenly I feel very interested in finding out how well XAVC on the AX100 holds up.

 

Only thing that could cripple the A7S is rolling shutter, but the 12MP count and "S" for Speed is a good sign that won't be a big problem.

[dm2010]

Sony has been revealing some nice surprises in recent years, with the A7/7r being a revelation (for photos mainly) for 2013! Let's hope the have enough appetite to keep this going. Canon and Nikon are going nowhere with their DSLR video so I am hoping!

[wolf33d]

12mp = 8mpx in 16/9 = 4K full sensor read out = amazing low light for stills = amazing high FPS for stills = amazing still quality (see D700 12mpx pictures, 6years old camera...) = smaller files to work with = finally the first world camera with no compromise : 4K + FF stills in a compact body. What I have been waiting.... Yesterday I had a 2h conversation with a friend about how should we do with GH4 because it sucks in stills (I had 5D2, Fuji Xpro, XE1, GH3, Olympus EM1 ... I know what I talk about : M43 sucks for landscape as it has very poor colour depth and DR, go on 500px.com and compare shots done with 5DIII, D800 and EM1 (wich is a pro body as well) ) so we were wondering what to do as we are 50% in video and photo. Sony .... Please don't disappoint with any major issue, and take my money. 
RIP GH4

[ntblowz]

I just wondering how would Sony resolve the heating issue

GH3/4 have to use much bigger body so it can shoot all day without heating up.

 

M43 didn't suck for landscape, check out Amos Chapple, his latest one is done in GF5, and his photos look a lot nicer than those so called "FF"

[itimjim]

Only thing that could cripple the A7S is rolling shutter, but the 12MP count and "S" for Speed is a good sign that won't be a big problem.

 

I'm more concerned about compression. Double face palm if it's nothing better than 8-bit 420 without the option to output something better.

[wolf33d]

"M43 didn't suck for landscape"

 

It does. Look at my video : you will see after the beginning a timelapse (so stills..) with the Nikon D5200 of the  golden gate (with red colours in the sky) and right after one with the GH3 of the same golden gate,  I took it myself, and edited it myself as well. As you can see the gate looks 10 times cleaner with the bigger sensor ... GH3 can't hold up. 
This is only an exemple, I experienced this since years with all my camera. See for yourself medium format pictures, and 1" sensor pictures... Definitely never the same look even without regarding DoF. .......

 

[skiphunt]

Ya see... that's why I don't jump on the bandwagon, pre-order, and fall for all the pre-release HYPE. Wait until this stuff gets actually released, find out what the hidden bugs are, and see what game the competition brings first. 

[wolf33d]

Ya see... that's why I don't jump on the bandwagon, pre-order, and fall for all the pre-release HYPE. Wait until this stuff gets actually released, find out what the hidden bugs are, and see what game the competition brings first. 

 

You are definitely right. But since two years, I have been switching between 5DII, Fuji X, GH3, EM1, Nikon and more and could not find what suited me (a compact body with excellent video and stills quality, by this I mean fuji Xpro 1 size with GH3-4 video and 5D stills...). Well it appears Sony brings it now. 

During those years I have always been waiting and watching rumors and saying yeah cool a GH3, lets see the test first blablabla. 

At the end I found out to be never happy with my gear, and spend more time looking for rumors and test than taking pictures. A shame. 

So just to say, there is a point you just need to grab something that suits you and stick with it and enjoy it. I really hope Sunday is my answer. ;)

[Nikkor]

Wow, 12mp. This probably means better low light than nikon D3s (which is 5 years old). If they go the 12mp route they will probably have some very good codec, and some very interesting burst/silent raw recording, otherwise it makes no sense, because you can't really sell a 12MP FF camera to photographers these days. I almost buy a A7, almost preorder GH4, I guess this one is going to be the one ;)

[dafreaking]

Time spent on this forum has robbed me of my patience man... Obsession? How about being more thankful for the info and less insulting.

 

LOL. I was talking about your obsession with the GH4.

 

And I didn't mean to be insulting or condescending. Apologies and keep up the great work.

[skiphunt]

You are definitely right. But since two years, I have been switching between 5DII, Fuji X, GH3, EM1, Nikon and more and could not find what suited me (a compact body with excellent video and stills quality, by this I mean fuji Xpro 1 size with GH3-4 video and 5D stills...). Well it appears Sony brings it now. 

During those years I have always been waiting and watching rumors and saying yeah cool a GH3, lets see the test first blablabla. 

At the end I found out to be never happy with my gear, and spend more time looking for rumors and test than taking pictures. A shame. 

So just to say, there is a point you just need to grab something that suits you and stick with it and enjoy it. I really hope Sunday is my answer. ;)

 

My philosophy has basically been don't buy any more than you really need RIGHT NOW. And don't fall for any hype. You never know where the real motivation for hype is coming from anyway on any of the sites. 

 

Thus far, the GH4 looks like what I'm going to want, but the low light doesn't look as impressive as I'd hoped. And there are other's who've yet to show what they'll bring to the table. Just read there's a Nikon D9300 rumored. I know Andrew seems to really dislike anything Nikon at this point, but who knows? They may step up their video game to compete in the 4k video sector. 

 

Personally, I like that fact Panasonic has a good track record thus far for affordable, yet pro-level gear... so history of supporting those of us who can't afford $100k gear has to be considered. 

[andy lee]

Andrew you would know better than I, but what manufacturer has put in a center crop video box for any camera?  My guess is they don't want to handle a million phone calls that go "why am I zoomed into my kid's forehead when I shoot video on this camera!?"  Assuming this remains true, then the only way for Sony to deliver expected focal-length video from any of their cameras is by line-skipping of pixel binning, each of which still suffers from lack of global shutter (that is, jello effect).  So I see any full-frame 4K video as being a repeat of their VG series story.  Nice marketing of large sensor, poor real-world results.

 

I agree with you, the GH4 is the standard, for my budget at any rate.

the Red Epic uses a centre crop off the sensor -  you can set different sizes -

 

not sure about any consumer cameras doing this??  any takers?

[leo]

My experience with sony products has been of getting ripped off, almost always I had a better choice from Canon, Nikon or Panasonic, even a blank DVD costs more if it has a sony badge.

The thought of having 4k on a full frame sensor is amazing, even with a 1.3 crop, I woud drop every gear I have in an instant for an FX 4k.

I doubt this will happen, there must be a catch if they give 4k right now, it will eighter be very very expensive or have some basic features cut off, maybe some bad codec that breaks up, who knows.

At least I know I won't be buying anything from sony until I see 10 reviews discussing every litte thing and maybe waiting even half a year to see user impressions :), that's how bad I see sony products.

[ajay]

This is a really interesting development. I am a Canon wildlife photographer that has been shooting with the GH2, GH3 and have a GH4 on order. Being heavily invested in long Canon telephotos, I have always been frustrated by the lack of an adapter that electronically controls EF lenses to the M43 cameras. (I don't necessarily care about autofocus, but aperture control and IS is very important to me.) I have given up on Metabones.

 

If Sony does release a new A7 with 4k that has the quality of the GH4, this will be a no-brainer. I'll cancel the GH4 and wait for the A7S. Why? Metabones already has an adapter that would allow my Canon lenses to be electronically controlled by the A7S.

 

As far as waiting for Canon to release a new 4k camera, I have no hope for them. Considering that the 1DC (currently is now $10k) is the only DSLR in their lineup with 4k, they won't put it in anything less (like the 7D replacement) because it would take away from their 1DC sales.

 

I am hoping that the A7S may finally get me an adaptable 4k camera! I've got my fingers crossed for Sunday.

[DanMorrison]

So just to say, there is a point you just need to grab something that suits you and stick with it and enjoy it. I really hope Sunday is my answer. ;)

 

I am sure this is something we all struggle with to some degree. Evolving technology seems to strengthen a sort of compulsion in me to wait for that perfect camera. It becomes more and more difficult to feel good about using the gear I currently have, as my mind wonders about the gear I could have tomorrow...and what that could bring to my creative process. 

 

Cinema, like any art form, requires a specific set of tools. As a woodworker, it's obvious that the quality of my tools has a huge impact on the final quality of my work. The same is true with video work. 

 

I think, for those of us who are perfectionists in our work, that there is a valid reason to put off shooting a certain project, until we are confident that our tools will be able to produce the quality of work that we envision. 

 

The frustration stems from the fact that our art form is relatively new, and the tools are still rapidly evolving. Analog film has shown us what is possible when we are able to capture the real world as we see it, without losing much in translation... Digital is slowly allowing that quality to be widely accessible. 

 

This is a very exciting time for reasonably priced digital video. And it is also a bit of a pain in the ass, as we all ride the line between waiting and creating. 

[Darktide Media]

I dont see how anyone on this forum has the nerve to talk about the GH4 just because a rumored camera is talked about. I think no one on this forum has seen the A7r and very few have seen the GH4. I hate to come on here and read this stuff about a rumor killing a new camera. In what world?? Just because it doesn't fit your bill as a good camera? For some the GH4 will be the camera to go with. I have talked with many and they all agree the GH4 is a wildlife dream.. Grab some long glass, make it longer with the GH4 crop and then shoot 4K and pull frames or shoot 12fps in RAW mode. If you dont like a camera dont get it simple as that. 

[Derek Weston]

12mp = 8mpx in 16/9 = 4K full sensor read out = amazing low light for stills = amazing high FPS for stills = amazing still quality (see D700 12mpx pictures, 6years old camera...) = smaller files to work with = finally the first world camera with no compromise : 4K + FF stills in a compact body. What I have been waiting.... Yesterday I had a 2h conversation with a friend about how should we do with GH4 because it sucks in stills (I had 5D2, Fuji Xpro, XE1, GH3, Olympus EM1 ... I know what I talk about : M43 sucks for landscape as it has very poor colour depth and DR, go on 500px.com and compare shots done with 5DIII, D800 and EM1 (wich is a pro body as well) ) so we were wondering what to do as we are 50% in video and photo. Sony .... Please don't disappoint with any major issue, and take my money. 
RIP GH4

 

GH3 has better dynamic range than the 5D III. Go look at the sensor charts on dxomark. It doesn't quite have the resolution, though. 

[ajay]

Grab some long glass? Where? In the M43 world, the Panasonic 100-300 lens doesn't cut it. Not for small wildlife such as birds and it's not as sharp as Canon L glass. I've been using the Canon 600mm on the GH3 for birds and works ok, but no image stabilization. The GH4 could be the best 4k camera in the world, but image stabilization on long lenses makes a big difference. With Sony I have options with Metabones, with M43 I do not.

 

Grab some long glass, make it longer with the GH4 crop and then shoot 4K and pull frames or shoot 12fps in RAW mode. If you dont like a camera dont get it simple as that. 

[Andrew Reid]

300mm on a 2x crop sensor not long enough for you ajay?  :wacko:

 

The 100-300 has stabilisation... equivalent on full frame would be 200-600, go and price that up at Amazon :)