Sony A7S specs announced - S for sensitivity. 4K via HDMI to "third party recorder"

[themartist]

hmmm - this camera is suddenly very attractive.

Upstream Color shot on GH2 and voigtlanders... imagine the A7s full frame at 4k with some fast voigtlanders

[fuzzynormal]

The tools have gotten so good at the low end that it really becomes not a question of equipment, but a question of ability.

 

Well, ultimately, it's always been that.  But getting through the production door and into the VIP room where the dude named "really-good-technical-imaging" hangs out is getting a lot easier.

[apefos]

What Canon needs to do now to compete is to release a version of EOS-M mirrorless with 3840 x 2560 sensor, 9.8 megapixel for photo and UHD video with same sensor technology from 70D, improved low light and dual pixel AF with the same log Dynamic Range as Sony did, recording UHD to the sd card or recording FHD. Price under 1000 usd.

People wants to use all kind of lenses, not just proprietary lenses... so a expensive 4k 5D Mark IV would not be perfect for competition.

[Germy1979]

At any rate, it will probably be substantially cheaper than the 1DC which is exactly where this cam matches up IMO. Wtf will Canon do now, lol.

[Groundless]

If you want to see some new GH4 footage...including the 10 bit 422 via 'break out box" i.e. DMW-YAGH Interface Unit... to AJA recorder....

I

 

Published on Apr 6, 2014

Adorama TV presents the Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 and Interface Unit. Join Michael Artsis as he explores the features of this new 4K camera and showcases its stunning footage.

 

AJA Ki Pro Quad
http://www.adorama.com/AJPAK256.html

 

•  

[maxotics]

Ditto Wolf33d "1080p full pixel readout full frame at 50mbps is perfect for me"  Sorry, from a photographic perspective, as good as many APS-C and MFT cameras are, as they say about auto engines, there is  "no replacement for displacement".   No focal reducer is going to catch a full-frame at as good IQ, IMHO.

 

Forget about the camera for a second, does any other manufacturer have a full-frame sensor in the pipeline?  Andrew?  

 

Will be interesting to see when this camera comes out.  Even at $2,700 (assuming GH4 is $1,700) there will be many who will pay that extra thousand for full-frame low-light IQ.  They already do in still photo land.

[Brian Williams]

I don't really get why everyone is disappointment with this announcement.
 
I figured most people want a 4K GH4 so that they can get a better 1080p end product. Or am I the only one who doesn't care about a 4K export? By the time I get a 4K TV or monitor, I'll be a couple of camera body upgrades down the road.
 
So, if the A7S produces better quality 1080p than the GH3 or GH4 can achieve (and that's a big if) then the A7S suddenly looks very appealing. And that's not even mentioning the full frame sensor (with no pixel binning), slow motion abilities and supposedly amazing low light capabilities. 
 
Hopefully Andrew is getting an A7S soon for testing!

No, you're right, I was exaggerating a bit, I don't care about 4k yet either, only care about good 1080. It's just that this seems very comparable to the GH3, which is an older and already replaced camera. It has full frame over the GH3's smaller sensor, but then again it only offers 50mbps, which isn't great, at least the GH3 offers 72mbps. And I know people will say codec isn't everything, and it's not, but it is really important- I can absolutely tell the different between my BMPCC's 176mbps ProRes vs 24mbps H264. Put a speed booster on a GH3 and they're really comparible, though the Sony sensor will probably be way better than the GH3's.
I'm still interested in this camera, I just had higher hopes, and not sure that it's enough to make me sell my pocket cam (which I actually already went and put up for sale this weekend, along with the bmpcc meta bones speed booster over on Fred Miranda, in anticipation of the A7s).

[maxotics]

I'm still interested in this camera, I just had higher hopes, and not sure that it's enough to make me sell my pocket cam (which I actually already went and put up for sale this weekend, along with the bmpcc meta bones speed booster over on Fred Miranda, in anticipation of the A7s).

 

Why would you sell you BMPCC which records 1080p in RAW?  The a7s will offer higher resolution, but record video in 8bit, which means, if  you don't nail your exposure perfectly there will be no fixing it.  And, you won't be able to grade color like you can with BMPCC RAW dngs.  This 4K stuff is like a shiny Xirconian diamond.  Real diamonds are RAW :) Different cameras for different needs.

[ntblowz]

hmmm - this camera is suddenly very attractive.

 

I could dump my 5D2 if the price is true..!

[john_d]

Crossing my fingers someone announces a cheaper 4k recorder for the a7s.

 

$2k for the Shogun is too rich for my blood. I'd rather put that kind of money to the gh4 is this is the only alternative.

[thatPhilGuy]

So close.  

Sony is a master of segmentation.  Unless I missed it, there is no 4:2:2, uncompressed, *10-bit*.  Sadly, it appears no 10-bit anywhere. A great full-frame, low light sensor. Yet even with S-Log2, the image will have to be mostly crafted in the camera.  Hopefully I missed it, but otherwise this (10-bit) is the missing feature that protects the higher product lines.

All the sample shots are low contrast or low light.  Closest to a 'highlight' challenge is the boat captain.  So close.  Hope I missed it, and will be grateful to be corrected.  Even my lowly (yet amazingly) PIX 220 does 10-bit.

@yiomo.  I'm with you, the "clip at 2.24 with a 5.6 aperture and 120 12800 does it for me", too.  :-)

I'm sure the Convergent Design, Odyssey7Q, will have a 4K option soon. (They already support the FS700).  

Andrew, I'm a long time reader, with great appreciation for all you bring to this blog.  I just don't quite grasp the whole 4K emphasis.  Sure, stunning resolution at an amazing price. Great technicall achievements. However, I've yet to see a piece, either web or big screen, that pulled me into the story.  Mostly the opposite.  I certainly understand Sony's motivation.  

 

But for me, a true 1080p, 10-bit workflow, is worth much more than 4K.

 

Even Shane Hurlbut has gone on record...

"...  Kamil, I would shoot a feature on the 1DC in a heart beat, but learning what I did on Need for Speed I will never shoot 4K with the C500 again. 2K only it looks much more cinematic and not so sharp, so much I had to do to the image to get it where I wanted it.

Nachem, Quote away, I am done with 4K period!!!!!! I am on 2K right now loving it, much more color depth, the blow out looks more filmic, too much resolution makes it look fake."

-- in comments:  http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2014/03/need-for-speed-innovation-gear/

[Brian Williams]

Why would you sell you BMPCC which records 1080p in RAW?  The a7s will offer higher resolution, but record video in 8bit, which means, if  you don't nail your exposure perfectly there will be no fixing it.  And, you won't be able to grade color like you can with BMPCC RAW dngs.  This 4K stuff is like a shiny Xirconian diamond.  Real diamonds are RAW :) Different cameras for different needs.

You are absolutely right, I would consider the trade only because I can't justify having both the pocket cam and a good camera for stills (I currently have none for stills); I want something that can do both, especially with a full frame. All that, and an evf. I realize it's a step down in image quality, but I had high hopes for 4k shrunk down to 1080, the loss in IQ would be worth it to me for those extra features.
But for some reason, I'm just not excited about the GH4 like I was for the A7s.

[Andrew Reid]

Raw or ProRes / Pocket Camera vs GH4 and A7S 4K is definitely a topic for a future blog post.

 

My feeling so far (based on the GH4) is that this compressed 8bit 4K stuff makes for very nice 2K and 1080p indeed, which looks every bit as good colour and dynamic range wise as the Blackmagics or raw on 5D Mark III.

 

Also GH4 in 4K has far less moire & aliasing than the Pocket Cinema Camera and BMCC, especially when downscaled to 2K.

[Andrew Reid]

No, you're right, I was exaggerating a bit, I don't care about 4k yet either, only care about good 1080.

 

4K = good 1080p.

 

So therefore you should care a lot Brian!

[Andrew Reid]

I can guarantee that the internal XAVC-S 1080p from the A7S will not look as good as getting 1080p from the 4K output and doing your scaling in post with all that processing power available on your desktop.

 

8bit 4K 4:2:0 = 10bit 1080p 4444 remember. If the maths have complications and gotchas, the image to my eyes does not. The GH4's 4K looks like 10bit when you grade it and when you look at it on a 2K display. Gradations are smooth. Colour is fantastic. Sampling shows no signs of pixilation or jaggedness at 2K. At 1:1 at 4K you do see some aliasing and jaggies from 4:2:0 sampling. They disappear when scaled correctly to 1080p or 2K.

[Brian Williams]

4K = good 1080p.
 
So therefore you should care a lot Brian!

No no, I do care about it for that purpose, hence my initial excitement about the A7s.
I just meant that I don't care about doing final outputting to 4K. At least not yet.

[Andrew Reid]

Many in same boat as you, simply edit in 4K and deliver as 2K. Many benefits to it.

 

Difference is a click of a button and that is it.

[Edry]

its almost sad canon, almost... 

[thementalist]

I can guarantee that the internal XAVC-S 1080p from the A7S will not look as good as getting 1080p from the 4K output and doing your scaling in post with all that processing power available on your desktop.

 

8bit 4K 4:2:0 = 10bit 1080p 4444 remember. If the maths have complications and gotchas, the image to my eyes does not. The GH4's 4K looks like 10bit when you grade it and when you look at it on a 2K display. Gradations are smooth. Colour is fantastic. Sampling shows no signs of pixilation or jaggedness at 2K. At 1:1 at 4K you do see some aliasing and jaggies from 4:2:0 sampling. They disappear when scaled correctly to 1080p or 2K.

Everywhere read about 4k 8 bit 4:2:0 = 1080p 10 bit 444.

 

But i don't read HOW and how simple is this processing. 

 

Also, Andrew, you right 4k is a good 1080p, but a thing i've to say: does not have much sense to buy a 4k camera to use in 1080p. No way.

[Glenn Thomas]

With S-LOG 2 built in, low light sensitivity and the higher bitrate, this would have to be better than Canon's C300, right?

 

As for the 4K output, why no 25P?