Sony A7S specs announced - S for sensitivity. 4K via HDMI to "third party recorder"

[Nathan]

Many in same boat as you, simply edit in 4K and deliver as 2K. Many benefits to it.

 

Difference is a click of a button and that is it.

 

And the extra cost to store the footage. Could you convert the footage first? Easier on the edit processing. Is it just the case of exporting as ProRes 4444?

[wolf33d]

BH says it comes with 2 batteries included. :)

[JohnBarlow]

Can someone run the numbers and tell me which is better.
????????????

 

10 or 12 bits of low sensitivity VERSUS 8 bits of high sensitivity and what is the balance/tipping point and also what s-log effects/factors this calculation.

 

I just gotta know  :)

[maxotics]

You are absolutely right, I would consider the trade only because I can't justify having both the pocket cam and a good camera for stills (I currently have none for stills);

 

Having a camera that does both stills and video is the Holly Grail.  The a7s is exciting, if it is priced under $2,000  Anyway,  I've been experimenting with all kinds of gear and this is where I'm currently at.

 

I started with Canon for stills, was very happy, then bought a Nikon d600 on a lark, expecting to sell it after a few weeks.  That was almost a year ago.  When Nikon went digital they made sure you could use any old Nikon Lens.  When Canon went digital, they changed lens mounts (though you can get adapters).  

 

Canon implements video better than Nikon (the locked aperture in video with Nikons is a PITA).  As a stills camera, Nikon has really pushed in-camera RAW capture and currently has better dynamic range than Canon.  Nikon has to be first-rate in stills.  They don't have a significant video business.

 

http://home.comcast.net/~NikonD70/Charts/PDR_Landscape_scatter.htm

 

DR isn't everything.  A lot of people prefer Canon because the images are warmer.  Even I like them better.  However, they are a tease.  You can shift Nikon red in post and pick up a lot more detail.  

 

I read many people saying MFT is as good as full-frame, even very established photographers.  But they all sheepishly admit that they shoot full-frame, except when they must go small.  I guess what I'm getting at, is if you start trying to get the best photo-setup you're going to want full-frame.  Something about the physics of it.  So that's why the a7s intrigues me too.  Although not great it low light, I'd take an original 7-year old Canon 5D for a portrait over a GH4 without hesitation.  

 

Anyway, I'm learning the hard way that a good set of manual glass is ALWAYS useful on any camera.  So I can use all my Nikon glass on my BMPCC, d600 and even my knock-about GF3.  That was one of the pointers I really bought into from Andrews 50D raw guide.

 

Anyway, if I was you I might consider getting a used Canon 5D.  I see them for about $500 now.  I bet you could get one for $400.  They take beautiful images.  (Nikon, unfortunately, doesn't have old full-frames that go cheap, get got into the game late with full-frames)  Or the d600 are often sold cheap because of the oil-spot thing.  Ignore the panic.  They monster cameras.  

 

I want a GH4 as a knock-about camera.  As Andrew said, and you must know, moire is a big problem with the BMPCC, at least for me.  However, when you avoid it the image to me, is Cinematic.  More so than 4K, to my taste.

[Edry]

Hey sony, where is this cam?

 

[johnnymossville]

Hey sony, where is this cam?

 

 

that looks like something a 3D printer spit out. 

[Melbourne Park]

How does the camera generate 1080P? What CPU power does it have? Does it just crop down for 1080P? Or sample it down? Or does it compress the 4k frame down to one quarter of its file size?

 

If the A7 "S" just takes a 2MP frame, then that reduces both low light performance, and depth of field.

 

So its 1080P wouldn't be that great ... worse than GH-4 because you can sample down GH-4 4K to 1080P.

 

So ... for those that don't buy the HDMI connection device, the A7 "S" would be a supreme low light still camera with its limited lenses, and a very good 1080P but likely not better than many much cheaper 1080P still/video cameras?

[HJD]

In the case you haven't seen this interview already. The Vimeo version had audio drop out after 6min, but the Youtube version has audio all the way through :) :

 

[powderific]

Really excited to see how this turns out. I like the 4k internal recording of the GH4, and generally like the looks of it for video better than the A7S, buuuut, I also need excellent stills capabilities. A combo of the A7S and A7R could replace my current D800/XF300 setup without sacrificing anything on the stills side. I'd been considering selling the XF300 to pick up a GH4, but that'd mean some lens replication between different mounts. Switching everything out to Sony would be very convenient. And, as someone who shoots a ton of run and gun in terrible light, the high ISO quality is very appealing.

[Ernesto Mantaras]

 

If you want to see some new GH4 footage...including the 10 bit 422 via 'break out box" i.e. DMW-YAGH Interface Unit... to AJA recorder....

I

 

Published on Apr 6, 2014

Adorama TV presents the Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH4 and Interface Unit. Join Michael Artsis as he explores the features of this new 4K camera and showcases its stunning footage.

 

AJA Ki Pro Quad
http://www.adorama.com/AJPAK256.html

 

•  

 

Wow, that review sucked!

[Tim Naylor]

I'm quite excited about this camera more so than the GH4. The Full Frame, S Log, DR and sensitivity is what has me. None of the GH4 footage I've seen has impressed me enough to click "Buy Now". Perhaps its the DR or LUT, but from what I've seen, the image has a certain video quality of GH3 that I never liked. The footage from the Sony so far shows more promise for my type of work. I thought the roll off in the highlights, tonal gradation, and color repro was on a different level. Hooked up to a Shogun….watch out!

[gethin]

12Mpix on Apsc would be great for me: all apsc lenses available, all full frame lenses available via speedbooster.  I could use my 14-24 at F2. Drool.  Whilst you're at it throw in 5 axis stabilization. 

 

I'll hanging to see how the GH4's dynamic range stacks up to sony's.

[Melbourne Park]

Many in same boat as you, simply edit in 4K and deliver as 2K. Many benefits to it.

 

Difference is a click of a button and that is it.

 

Not on the A7 S though ... unless you pay extra, and get the HDMI external. Great for Pros, but not for Prosumers.

 

For Prosumers, one reason they would like the A7 S format, is its size. You loose that with the external 4K enabling device.

 

If you operate the A7 S in 1080P mode, you also gain depth of field (some would call that bad situation!). Because the 1080 uses the sensor in a cropped mode. The video is captured on I think the dimension similar to the APS-C sized part of the FF sensor.  In comparison, with the GH-4 you can use all of its sensor in 4k Mode and down sample later. Or use the GH-4's 1080P ( I presume it uses binning when producing internally saved 1080P). However the GH-4 sensor is not nearly as good in low light as the A7 S.

 

Another benefit of the crop APS sensor size for video on the A7 S, is that one could use Nex lenses on the A7 S for internal 1080P video, and it would work just as well as a full frame FA lens in that 1080 video mode. So for Nex users who want better video and especially low light video, the A7 S has a lot of appeal.

[jypfoto]

This suggests a price of 1699.99 / ~ 1.35 = ~ 1259 €
 




We'll see ...at that price in Euros would be very interesting

We'll have to wait and see. If you skip to about 4:30, the rep for the 4k recorder is estimating the combo to cost around $5,000, with the recorder costing around $2,000, leaving the camera at $3,000. I'd be surprised if it were as low as 1,700.

[Melbourne Park]

Why should it cost more than the other A7s? Sony own the software inside, they haven't developed the body (its shared), and it opens up new markets for more lenses. Its CPUs inside might be no more costly than the rest of the A7 models. IMO the price will be decided by marketing. If they just want to Pro market, then sell it for $3K. But if they want the Prosumer mass market, then sell it for under $2k. I'd bet selling it for under $2K would win them major market share, and would also keep Sony and Nikon away from getting serious about mirrorless. And if another FF competitor entered the market and Sony dropped the A7 "S" price ... that would burn their new A7 customers. While profits are attractive, if Sony want to own this market, they need to sell now at no more than 20% above prices that they expect their street camera prices to be 18 months time.

[pablogrollan]

IMO the price will be decided by marketing.

 

In a way... price is actually decided by the consumer (how much you are willing too pay). The marketing department's task is actually trying to find out how much is that, how much an average potential target buyer would consider reasonable or appealing. The already known price for the GH4 has lowered the amount we consider appropiate. When the BMPC was the affordable 4K cam, 3.000$ would seem reasonable in spite of having to buy an external recorder. Now that the GH4 is almost half of that price doing 4K internally, Sony would have to carefully re-think the price because most of us would consider it overpriced. Thay are obviously aimed at the same crowd, and FF + extended DR + lowlight sensitivity hardly justify paying double... The reason behind not disclosing the price -yet- may be that they have a pricing range but are still fine tuning it according to reactions from NAB and forums like this one. Consumer feedback is a must...

[Andrew Reid]

Indeed so let's not say we will pay more than $2000 for it.

 

The sensitivity and XAVC-S is nice and I will definitely sell my A7R for it but the price doubles when you want to make use of the camera's biggest selling point, 4K, whilst that is not the case with the GH4.

[maxotics]

Indeed so let's not say we will pay more than $2000 for it.

 

The sensitivity and XAVC-S is nice and I will definitely sell my A7R for it but the price doubles when you want to make use of the camera's biggest selling point, 4K, whilst that is not the case with the GH4.

 

HI Andrew.  Why don't you think Sony is putting in internal 4K?  Cost, business, technical hurdles?

[xenogears]

I'm sure that Sony has technical difficulties to implement 4k recording on the a7s due to the small size, they even have overheating on HD recording with some of the latest Nex. To me was a dumb decision to leave this body for a 4k camera, of course this obey to marketing tendency, i wish they make it in a body like the a77 but with the same E-mount, I'm tire of this miniaturization to create cameras with great specs but are gripped because of the size and when do you add fast lenses it's become worse, obviously no Canon sizes camera either. What's the point to have a pocket body when do you need big a heavy lenses. I  really love what Panasonic has made with the GH4 and if Sony want to been take seriously this is the way, a proper body.

[JohnBarlow]

I hear ya, but when you are out and about stealing shots it is good to have a camera size which does not shout out 'highly paid professional'.

 

Sony has always had a culture of miniaturization from transistor radios of the swinging 60s to walkmans of the 80s and the NEXs of the 10s.