Scammed on eBay as a seller and then - scammed by eBay customer services!

[Andrew Reid]

The full story is here:

https://www.eoshd.com/news/story-of-a-fraud-nightmare-sellers-beware-ebay/

[MurtlandPhoto]

Holy shit @Andrew Reid this is insane. I've often felt like a crazy person being so nervous to sell anything of value on eBay, but this justifies my fears. I'm sorry this happened to you and I hope some better resolution can come of it!

[Cosimo]

These assholes should be boycotted altogether, so sorry to hear this. Just one thing Andrew, why not using your own website or facebook to sell your stuff? I mean, with all your followers it would have been more safe less expensive and I am sure more fun. Good luck for the rest of your stuff!

[Andrew Reid]

I could certainly try opening my own camera store here at EOSHD. Need a clear out and really would hate to be scammed over something like an Iscorama or Leica SL2.

I think I will continue raising some awareness of how dangerous eBay is for sellers and then go my own way.

Thanks for the support guys.

[UncleBobsPhotography]

Oh my. I've been a happy eBay buyer for hundreds of items, and I've been surprised by how good service I've been getting from 99% of the sellers. This post clearly shows that I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

Fortunately my local classified ads have been working great for selling my gear with in-person delivery, and I will continue using that so that I'll never have to deal with something like this.

[MediaMan]

Because eBay doesn't make money until a sale happens they have continually sided with the buyers despite what their marketing says. The 99% of legitimate buyers have heard the news stories about getting a rock instead of a DSLR and want to know they won't get scammed. The dickheads in the 1% have figured out how to exploit that.

Here in the U.S. we have KEH to buy used gear and even though they buy at about 70% of market value, it's worth it to me to be free of the stress and anxiety you had to endure, or having a "buyer" pull a gun at a classified ad meet-up.

[theraywong]

Jesus, Andrew! That's fucking appalling behaviour from eBay. I've not sold that much on eBay but have gotten through it largely hassle-free, but this makes selling anything of value super sketchy. Thanks for sharing your story, I hope it comes good and you sell your equipment successfully, and you can go on and do the house move with extra funds. 🙂

[Andrew Reid]

They simply cannot be trusted. I was told one thing by their customer support, then the opposite and never any consistency in the way the cases were handled. It feels like you are being kicked in the head by several people at once including the buyers.

Then there's the uncertainty. If you have a successful sale but some idiot comes back after nearly 1 month to get his refund, what do you do? Do you suddenly have to find a spare £3000 for the refund out of the blue all that time after? What will the state of the valuable be in when it comes back to you? Will it even arrive back with you? Will eBay refund them anyway without them even sending it?

eBay can even directly debit my bank account.

I am thinking of phoning my bank's fraud department and having them block all future payments to eBay and PayPal.

[newfoundmass]

Hey Andrew, would you accept donations to help offset your losses? 

[Digitgio]

I used only two times eBay as seller and hope to use it never again in future. The fee (double if you use PayPal) are so high that make no sense to sell on eBay.Far better any used website and in person delivery… 

[Andrew Reid]

Certainly seems like there's been an uptick of bad behaviour in COVID times recently.

I was also the victim of postal theft in Berlin earlier this year, and my girlfriend was the victim of a serious identity fraud at the same time. Two cases were related. Police didn't bother to link them and never prosecuted.

I even found the guy selling my stolen camera with same serial number and accessories later on eBay classified ads and so I set up a police sting where I arranged to pay cash on collection with him in a public place and he hands over the camera... I went there with the undercover officers and they did their thing. They did absolutely fantastic job, very skilful and forcefully arrested the guy - but as soon as the police bureaucratic detective department gets involved everything goes limp. I still haven't even had the camera back from the police after months as the guy won't admit he was handling stolen goods and now it has to be signed off by a judge.

The back story is when this camera was ordered, it was delivered to a neighbour by incompetent DHL even though I was in. It had the very bad luck to arrive at the same time as the fraudster's goods we didn't know were being ordered from several online shopping sites to our address in Berlin! What I suspect these thugs do, is that they go round ordering a shit ton of expensive stuff on invoice using somebody else's name and address stolen from the internet, and wait for delivery by timing & monitoring it closely via online tracking.

When it arrives they pounce... One of the delivery guys in Berlin was recently chased down a street in an expensive neighbourhood by a guy with an imitation handgun.

In my case, some fucking jewellery the fraudster had ordered using my girlfriend's personal details was intercepted when the criminal sent someone round to bang on our neighbour's door, because DHL helpfully sign posted them to the right neighbour they had dumped the stuff on along with my camera at the same time. A delivery card hung on the outside door facing the pavement. Can you believe it!?! Zero fucks given for secure delivery.

I was even in at the time and DHL didn't bother going up to top floors and knocking on the door. Our stupid neighbour handed over everything without checking for ID and that was that.

Found the empty packaging later ripped open in our staircase and in a neighbouring apartment building.

In this blog post, some poor guy has been through years of handling fraudulent eBay buyers...

https://turbofuture.com/internet/How-To-Scam-People-On-Ebay

He basically says what the tricks are they use. It is so easy.

Pretty much describes the same things happened to me. These people know every trick in the book and know eBay let it fly and that the police don't deem it serious enough to prosecute.

So basically eBay know there is a huge problem and do nothing about it.

As long as buyers keep coming and the billions of revenue keeps stacking up, they literally don't give a toss.

It is obviously a much more flawed platform than I thought and dangerous to trust.

They advertise "Seller protection" on PayPal, etc. It's nonsense. Did't protect me. Didn't protect the other guy.

If you do use eBay to sell expensive cameras I recommend taking everything off it immediately as this is now becoming a common occurrence.

[timapple]

Andrew -

This had happened to me REPEATEDLY when selling high value items on ebay.  I sell perfectly functioning items with no issues but the flake who buys them changes his mind or doesn't know how to operate the gear and suddenly individual sellers are expectected to act like Amazon or BestBuy and take things back no-questions-asked.... even when you explicitly state NO RETURNS.  Ebay had gotten to the point of being unusable.  The quality of buyers has gotten terrible.  People bid and then retrack or buy and then try it out and send it back.  I sold my last camera item a couple weeks ago and will no longer use them in the future.  

The fees keep increasing and the experience and service gets worse. They seem to forget it's the SELLERS who pay the fees that makes them their money.  But they bend over backwards to appease the buyers even when it's blatantly obvious it's fraud or ignorance on the buyers' part.  Incredible!

Here's my advice to you and others, Andrew:  DO NOT LET UP.  Keep hounding the Resolution Department.  Remind them they YOU the seller pays their fees, not the buyer.  Provide as much proof/photos/receipts/etc as possible to back up your claims.  And insist that they make you "whole" the way they have done for the buyer.  In every case that I was forced to take a loss (and in some cases I NEVER got the item returned!) ebay EVENTUALLY refunded my money as well as the buyer's.  So they lost money but they're SO politically correct and worried about offending someone if they make the CORRECT JUDGEMENT in a case that they would rather take the loss than be accused of siding with one or the other in a dispute.  Stick with it, TYPE IN ALL CAPITALS IF NECESSARY and they will at some point most likely give you a full refund.  

It's a horrible business model but with so many dishonest people and flakes using ebay now I guess they have no choice. Instead of forcing honestly on the public they'll just keep raising user fees and the sellers will in effect cover ebay's ass.

[noone]

That really stinks Andrew!    Hope Ebay makes it right.

Ebay USED to be a great place to buy and sell.

Mind you my very first purchase decades ago was a scam (a dinky little fraction of a MP camera for $100 that never existed)...I never did hear from Ebay or the police after that beyond a couple of emails!

 

Since then, no issues until recently...No problems selling camera gear when i needed to.

Recently though I had an issue as a buyer ....AFTER I paid and I had RECIEVED feedback from them, the seller decided the item was no longer available....said they would refund but also said they were sick.... I ended up getting the money back but it took a while and I believe they just sold it to someone else for more money and while not a huge value, being perpetually broke these days, I could not buy elsewhere until I had the money back....I really wanted to just leave very cranky feedback but getting the refund stopped that.

Nah, I am done with Ebay for high values things  as a buyer and everything as a seller.

 

[Video Hummus]

Ebay (and PayPal) is toxic as fuck. I don't know how anybody can use it. I tried to sell some unused camera stuff a few years back and every bid I got was fraudulent and some dickhead trying to get me to send a product before PayPal payment "cleared". Meanwhile E-bay takes seller fees. 🖕🏻

The whole experience is dog shit and after that I never touched the site again. Same with PayPal. They fucking suck too.

If you factor in the time and stress, @Andrew Reid, that you had to deal with you are out much more than £1754.

[Nerv]

I've been buying on ebay for years and have had great success and gotten major steals on items...ie bought a RED Epic that was apparently broken and wasn't supposed to boot up for [$1000] and when i received it the camera it was basically new with 200 hours and has been working perfectly since day 1...maybe they sent me the wrong camera??? not sure but they never contacted me since...they were a very large camera retailer...

But yeah, i have never tried to sell on ebay and after reading this probably never will

[graphicnatured]

I'm about to sell some high-priced gear and was going to use eBay. Not anymore. Sorry this happened to you, Andrew.

[fuzzynormal]

Personal anecdote:  Lost a LUMIX GX7 a few years back through ebay.  Used them to move a ton of gear back in the early 'aughts, but stay well clear of them now.

[MrSMW]

My only experience of eBay has been mixed and I try and avoid the place these days. Especially in regard to big ticket items.

I think the trick of it is to really REALLY consider purchases in the first place and their longevity.

Cameras I expect to run into the ground these days and if buying or selling used, go through a dealer.

MBP make it so easy and yes, you might make a few quid extra selling (or cheaper buying) private, but near zero risk, returns policy, postage/delivery all taken care of and fast.

I bought my used S1H from them recently using their EU division. It arrived from Berlin within 24 hours.

I also sent them a piece of gear which they checked over and said had a small internal issue which downgraded their evaluation, so they are thorough.

Anyway, sorry about your phones Andrew. It’s stuff like this that people seem to have issues with most on eBay, - techy gear with higher sticker prices. 

[Mark Romero 2]

Sorry to hear about this, Andrew. Thank you for the heads up. I have a couple of Sony cameras I will probably / possibly be selling so I find your warning to be quite timely for me.

Hope things go well with ebay and with the home move.

[Xavier Plagaro Mussard]

Wow, I used to buy/sell often on eBay. I even sold a couple of very expensive items, everything went well. Nowadays most good ideas finish in the trash. The eBay concept was really good. 

Keep on bugging until you get your money back. But the stress will never be repaid.