Potential changes to the forum to prioritise good content, suggestions welcome...

[Andrew Reid]

Over the last few months it has been a shame to see such good information from level-headed people here on the forum being totally drowned out by poor quality posts, bullshit, rudeness and just general argumentativeness or stuff which has nothing to do with filmmaking or even reality.

 

Frankly it is becoming a real pain to moderate and I just don't have time for it.

 

All over the internet forums are the same, they are all a total PITA to read because of a disruptive few.

 

I am considering a change to the forum which would effectively see it closed but for a few selected members who have a proven track record of good posts. The forum would have a lot of exposure and readers. Like a 'second blog' to EOSHD that everybody can get something interesting out of.

 

In preparation for the potential change over the next few weeks I will name the top quality people on here. Those who contribute interesting and cool stuff to the forum...

 

This is so EOSHD readers can check their profiles and check their posts more often - essentially I want to start drawing attention to the good guys rather than them always being drowned out.

 

By quality content I also mean good attitude towards other members, not just regular posting of constructive and creative stuff. People who help other shooters out when they are in need of it... and people who avoid the inevitable mud-slinging when someone with 2 or 3 posts jumps in to stir things up for their own enjoyment!

 

To have so much good info here especially on the anamorphic forum, drowned out by a vocal minority of idiots is simply unacceptable.

 

I'm not going to start censoring and banning en-masse - it is a shit job and I won't do it. I will simply close the forum and when it reopens it will be a circle of friends and 100% constructive. No bullshit. Like a cool hangout before the tourists get hold of it and ruin it.

 

Some may feel this is undemocratic. I will listen to them and get feedback on the idea before I decide on it 100%.

 

I just really think a forum with fewer members but LOTS of readers would be more useful to the readers of EOSHD.

 

So to those who get a kick out of a fight or a kick out of annoying myself and other filmmakers on the forum, it's time to consider whether you want the forum to continue, or whether it will end up being closed but still readable. I am thinking this could be the most useful outlet for the good stuff on the forum and a way to assist me in running the site.

 

Cheers - Andrew

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

Are there actual criteria to meet to be able to stay in the forum? What are these? It would really be a shame not being able to stay/participate here :S 

[Bruno]

Get a voting system, something simple like "useful or garbage", after a few "garbage" votes the post gets hidden, or goes towards the end and useful replies would stay on top... do the same for forum threads and within threads.

 

The downside to an "elitist" system is that new "members", no matter how serious or helpful, would be locked out, and if the ones included start losing interest, it might become a very lonely place.

[Julian]

Some short thoughts:

 

Frankly it is becoming a real pain to moderate and I just don't have time for it.

 

That's quite noticeable. I can understand it, but I think it's not good for the community. The cause is quite simple, the forum is too big for you (or anyone else) to manage it on their own.

 

I am considering a change to the forum which would effectively see it closed but for a few selected members who have a proven track record of good posts. The forum would have a lot of exposure and readers. Like a 'second blog' to EOSHD that everybody can get something interesting out of.

 

I'd strongly advice against that. You might find it a real pain in the ass, but I'm sure a lot of people value the information and the knowledge that is shared here even with all the bullshit and silly arguments attached.

 

Also, I don't see any need in closing things down. If you want to go this way, just make a new sub forum for people who have earned their marks and leave the rest as is. Let people throw mud as much as they want and don't bother with it. I think visitors don't have much trouble filtering out the bullshit and choosing who's opinion they value or not.

 

I agree that the anamorphic forum has become a mess. Personally the people that are just hanging around here to sell stuff annoy me the most. I think you should bring back the market place forum. When it was here, nobody used it, but with a zero tolerance policy people will have to. You just need some volunteers to moderate basic stuff like that.

[andy lee]

that is a great idea Andrew this past few months it has got hard to trawl though the insane posts of a few who just like to argue for the sake of arguing and dont offer and thing constructive to the forum.

 

I personally try to offer advise on the large amount of lenses I have used over the past 25 years - if I can pass on any helpful tips it all helps peoples choices.

[SleepyWill]

As a newcomer to the forums, and one who wishes to be a positive member but won't have the time to prove myself, all I ask is that there is some public section, even if you never go there yourself to allow us newbies to prove ourselves and if some few of us prove to be the type of people you want, that we can be highlighted to you somehow and get access!

[DanMorrison]

This is an interesting topic, and something that a lot of sites have difficulty with. 

 

I have been a part of the Iron Brush forum for quite some time, and I have noticed a very different atmosphere there, it is very respectful, and every post is thoughtfully written. Amazingly, the forum feels very constructive. 

 

I have also noticed a bunch of garbage posts popping up here... my favourite is when a poster has clearly not read the rest of the thread... uhg. 

 

The Iron Brush forum requires that you email the mod, and present your work/introduce yourself before you are allowed to make an account. I think that this could help a great deal... though, whether or not that would take up too much of your time, I'm not sure... 

 

I like the idea of a semi-closed forum, however, I do think that you should allow for the growth of that membership by accepting new members based on what they may have to offer. 

 

When the membership is stable enough, and everyone is on the same page, and here to learn and grow.. it should just moderate itself pretty well. 

[andy lee]

also have a section called 'Let Me Google That for You' for all the newbie questions by people who cannot be bothered using Google to ask the most simple things! as these clog up the forum massively, especially this past few months ,as loads of new peolple I have never heard of before ask the most inane questions they can easily find on Google .......

[Flynn]

I certainly understand being frustrated by some of the people who act like jackasses but if you limit this forum to a small number of posters the usefulness for me will go way down. I'd rather you just ban the idiots who come on here to insult people and act religious about their cameras, flying off the handle anytime someone disagrees with them. Anyway, I think I understand where you're coming from, I just think it would be a terrible move, at least from my standpoint. But it's your forum, do what you think is best for you. I mean, given the unfair abuse you've taken from some of these ungrateful pricks, I can see why you would want to limit it to those you consider informed and constructive posters. But you're gonna end up alienating, or at least excluding, a lot of good posters who are wanting to learn.

[pablogrollan]

I'd rather you just ban the idiots who come on here to insult people and act religious about their cameras

 

I agree, though I understand Andrew's point of view, especially because lately I've seen some unjustified personal attacks on him. I don't understand why people expect him to be like the BBC and attack him for letting his personal views show. I always understood EOSHD as an "expanded" blog, and it is precisely Andrew's personal and subjective view that attracted many to the site and forum. There are less "personal" rumour and news sites out there, and anyone is free to go there if they are looking for press releases and such.

I personally would hate EOSHD to become just another one of those sites. Here opinion is discussed openly, and that makes a difference, but I would totally understand if Andrew came to the conclusion that it is not worth the rudeness and ungratefulness he has to put up with.

[mrcultureshock]

As a newcomer to the forums, and one who wishes to be a positive member but won't have the time to prove myself, all I ask is that there is some public section, even if you never go there yourself to allow us newbies to prove ourselves and if some few of us prove to be the type of people you want, that we can be highlighted to you somehow and get access!

 

I completely agree with SleepyWill. I've been reading EOSHD forums for a while now and I really like the insight into videography on cameras that are within the reach of my wallet. I posted a few times but I just don't feel comfortable being very active because I'm a videography newbie but I'm also respectful to others because that's how I want to be treated..

 

EOSHD is a place of knowledge and inspiration for beginners like me and I hope you would consider a public section so people can exchange ideas, answer questions, and learn.

 

Cheers,

 

Nicolas

[jurgen]

 

I personally would hate EOSHD to become just another one of those sites. Here opinion is discussed openly, and that makes a difference, but I would totally understand if Andrew came to the conclusion that it is not worth the rudeness and ungratefulness he has to put up with.

 

It still can be. I've never seen a genuine opinion shut down on this site, regardless of how far it strays from conventional wisdom. I have found respectful disagreements to be welcome if not encouraged. With that said, I have also seen rudeness, cockiness, malice, and ill-temper attempting to pass itself off as "just a genuine opinion what's the big deal," and on that I agree with the overall sentiment of this post wholeheartedly - it needs to stop because it detracts greatly from the benefit you can get from scrutiny among friends. 

I would be in favor of stricter community moderation as a first step, with more aggressive steps taken as needed. There are plenty of other festering cesspools of partisan hatred on the internet. EOSHD is (and should continue to be) a place for honest, frank, respectful discourse.

[MattH]

The one thing I can say off the top of my head is that I think a simple vote up and down system that rearranges the order of comments is a bad thing because it ruins the flow of a discussion with posts not being in order.  It also buries new posts and makes people respond in disproportionate amounts to the top post at that particular time.

 

 

One thing I just thought of:

 

Whenever you post a new article I feel there is a race to rush though reading it to place a comment.  A lot of the time i feel like I get there at the end of the discussion where everyone has had their little say and left.  Even if i think i have something important to say I get the impression that few people will read it.

What you could do is roll out access to your articles in waves.  Those you like or trust the most could get access 30 mins before it becomes live to the internet.  Another wave after 20 mins maybe for people you are on the fence about.  Then that would allow constructive people to direct the shape of the discussion before other people come to contribute.  It would also give a chance to proof read.  Correct minor tipos ect. Or to give you friendly advise if something isn't quite clear or give you the heads up like the black magic thing yesterday.  How were you to know that black magic had given that response to everyone.  Obviously not everyone would be there to see the advanced article it on time, but it would be better than nothing.

[Quirky]

Over the last few months it has been a shame to see such good information from level-headed people here on the forum being totally drowned out by poor quality posts, bullshit, rudeness and just general argumentativeness or stuff which has nothing to do with filmmaking or even reality.

 

Frankly it is becoming a real pain to moderate and I just don't have time for it.

 

All over the internet forums are the same, they are all a total PITA to read because of a disruptive few.

 

That's the internyet in a nutshell, or at least the gadget/tech-oriented online forums. All gadget geek subspecies tend to bicker and whine, and get into each others' nerves at times. The more popular the site gets, the harder it becomes to maintain a good signal to noise ratio.  

 

Anyway, how about "hiring" a trusted moderator or two to help you in keeping the loonies on the path? That's an old-fashioned, but still a working solution, isn't it. Might be a better solution than a strictly closed forum, which might dry out and die after a few months or so, despite good intentions. Well, just a thought. Carry on, one way or other, as a private club or an open bar.

[Bruno]

It still can be. I've never seen a genuine opinion shut down on this site, regardless of how far it strays from conventional wisdom. I have found respectful disagreements to be welcome if not encouraged. With that said, I have also seen rudeness, cockiness, malice, and ill-temper attempting to pass itself off as "just a genuine opinion what's the big deal," and on that I agree with the overall sentiment of this post wholeheartedly - it needs to stop because it detracts greatly from the benefit you can get from scrutiny among friends.

One thing that needs to be said is that Andrew is often the one to lose it and resort to name calling and belittling people with different opinions. Whether justified or not, this behaviour opens precedents and passes the message that it's fine to act like that around here. You shouldn't put yourself out there like this backed by a forum and a "click to comment" button if you can't handle a few harsh critics.

The "this is my blog I can do whatever I want" attitude needs to end for things to improve, or it will only snowball and get worse, that's actually why I've been here less and less, there's less and less relevant information amongst all the loud and uninformed crap talk.

Many respected DPs run their own sites and forums themselves and I don't see this nonsense going on in there!

[HurtinMinorKey]

 

 

Anyway, how about "hiring" a trusted moderator or two to help you in keeping the loonies on the path? That's an old-fashioned, but still a working solution, isn't it. Might be a better solution than a strictly closed forum, which might dry out and die after a few months or so, despite good intentions. Well, just a thought. Carry on, one way or other, as a private club or an open bar.

This. 

 

This cuts down the work for you, and insulates you (somewhat) from criticism about what gets cut from the forum.  You can just tell people to take it up with the mods.  It allows you to play good cop to the mod's bad cop.  It's worth a shot anyway.  It's obviously something you could undo. 

 

You might also consider a "shitlist" topic where all complaints can be logged.  This will help to avoid the appearance that you are silencing critics, and allow you to remove these type of posts from what are otherwise on-topic threads (and then  moving them to the shitlist).  

[Nikkor]

It might be oldfashioned but moderadors are probably the best idea. A closed forum most likely would die off soon.

 

Also, less posts = less google placement.

[sunyata]

yea, i've noticed a high level of confrontational people on this forum too, but it's not the dissent that is a problem I think, it's the personal attacks. saying someone still lives at home and uses "mommy's credit card", lol.

 

you could just start a warning system with clearly stated rules not to break? no personal "ad hominum" attacks and get a moderator, even if that moderator is a user.

 

i'd also advise you to take a less active role in responding to negative comments.. just ignore some of them or issue a warning, but don't engage in an argument.. that just feeds the trolls. don't feel the need to fight back if someone criticizes the site, just consider if it's worthy of an official response.

 

from a ux perspective, rather than sorting based on quality of post (or only allowing certain people to speak), just have a collapse of a comment if it gets too many negative votes, just like youtube.

[richg101]

I like the idea of a 'agree' and 'disagree'%2

[richg101]

I like the idea of a 'agree' and 'disagree' button.  as well as a 'flag as inappropriate to discussion' button.  I imagine it would be great to see who shares the same opinions as others in a tally system.

 

more than 2 votes as inappropriate and the comment is auto deleted and the comment flagged.  Any further post related to the inappropriate comment /off topic comment is also deleted by hand?.

 

Too many degenerates with too much free time looking for arguments at the moment.