Blackmagic not just by name - why the Cinema Camera is the future

[Michiel78]

Maybe the reason why Canon, Panasonic, Sony and Nikon aren't serving the video-community more, is because we're a very small group amongst the greater mass of amateur or professional stills-shooters. I mean, every tourist on holiday nowadays has a DSLR, but how many people are (aspiring) filmmakers using DSLRs? For the big Japanese 4 we are just peanuts, and that means we are not their priority.

An other reason may be the fact that they are Japanese companies. The Japanese tend to make small evolutionary steps, not big revolutionary ones. It's not in their nature, I think. They're not people who'd like to improvise or be flexible, and that's what you need to be if you want to make a revolutionary product. I do agree now that BlackMagic sets a new benchmark, surely the big 4 will follow, but slowly. It took Canon more than 3 years to address the issues on the 5DmkII, and still they didn't get it completely right, so there's no chance they will release a firmware update for the 5DmkIII in 3 months.

I have a 60D myself and I absolutely love the cinematographic feel of the image it produces, but I have to cope with the limited dynamic range, the noise, the codec issues. I sure hope that BlackMagic raised a black horse here, but I still want to see more (graded) images before I buy it...

[emgesp]

I'd rather wait for a M/43 mount as those lenses tend to be cheaper than EOS lenses at the same focal length/aperture.

[OverCranked]

[quote author=avrofilmvideo link=topic=613.msg4407#msg4407 date=1334895460]
I am not going to say anything about what it takes to make decent camera BUT why would anybody cripple their nice fast wide ZE/ZF lenses on this box which looks like was designed by Stalin ENGs in 50sss..
just imagine what it will do to a new Zeiss 15mm f2.8
[/quote]

Either you haven't seen the Great Stalin's era and his stuff or you have not seen this camera  - there is no relation at all. On George Bush style fear campaign you are starting here about the lens mount could you please get Dick to issue a press package for the public knowledge/ propaganda. What the heck are you talking about !? Every where there are demo video clips and still images of this camera with Zeiss lenses that are 10 times heftier than your dinky 15/2.8 !

Find something else to troll about please.

[christianhubbard]

[quote author=TC link=topic=613.msg4401#msg4401 date=1334888422]
[quote author=moebius22 link=topic=613.msg4399#msg4399 date=1334886943]
The internal battery is wrong headed and a problem.
[/quote]

Agreed.  Two bad design decisions with this camera: internal battery and EOS mount.  Everything else is all we could hope for (and more) at $3000.
[/quote]

EOS mount was actually a much better business decision than M43 mount.

Would a M43 mount make the camera more versatile? yes.

But EOS mount speaks volumes, it tells the consumer, "Hey, we're listening. We see that you have lots of canon glass, please feel free to use it on our camera."

Right now, Canon has a much larger share of the consumer market than m43, and it's much wiser to cater to that larger share INITIALLY to get that consumer base behind the camera before telling the consumer what mount is better and what they should want.

[emgesp]

[quote author=christianhubbard link=topic=613.msg4439#msg4439 date=1334938323]
[quote author=TC link=topic=613.msg4401#msg4401 date=1334888422]
[quote author=moebius22 link=topic=613.msg4399#msg4399 date=1334886943]
The internal battery is wrong headed and a problem.
[/quote]

Agreed.  Two bad design decisions with this camera: internal battery and EOS mount.  Everything else is all we could hope for (and more) at $3000.
[/quote]

EOS mount was actually a much better business decision than M43 mount.

Would a M43 mount make the camera more versatile? yes.

But EOS mount speaks volumes, it tells the consumer, "Hey, we're listening. We see that you have lots of canon glass, please feel free to use it on our camera."

Right now, Canon has a much larger share of the consumer market than m43, and it's much wiser to cater to that larger share INITIALLY to get that consumer base behind the camera before telling the consumer what mount is better and what they should want.
[/quote]


Why not offer a M/43 mount as well?  It would have made sense to have an EOS and M/43 mount option.

[OverCranked]

Take the internal Battery as a FREE bonus gift included point of sales ... .
Take it as that life saver built in add on that you thank gods and BMD when you need it and magically you find it inside your camera. You Know - those cases that you have to set up in 30 seconds and the stupid battery pac was miss placed by somebody and they are calling the roll and again you are the one that making everybody to wait - yet again !

Or just imagine it's not even there. forget about it. Always use your external V-mount or T-mount or cheepy chinese cloned packs and move on.

On this issue I have looked into my one year shooting logs. Nearly 75% of camera rolls we have had in either single cam or multiple angles the actual camera On plus Rolling has been under 60minutes per camera per shooting day. ( we log for maintenance and replacement schedule - Film era habits ). So for me the built in battery is a plus.

That said I am here to learn about the best external battery options from you guys and girls.

[OlegKalyan]

M43, PL and Nikon should be the options. I mean, we can all to to Canon to Nikon adapter, as we used to do in the day when 5d did not have aperture option, for about a year,  4/3 seems to be most reasonable choice of lenses, so close to BM

[Alex Mand]

This is the first generation of this little beauty. I sincerely hope that BMCC starts a new revolution and it probably will. Raw footage a this price range WITH a full copy of Davinci for $3000 ???? This is beyond awesome! Put a Tokina 11mm-16mm on this baby and bang! Go shooting professional ready footage and grade it on one of the best piece of software ever created for color grading (not to mention the awesome tracking it has). We just need to see some more footage but with all the hype right now I guess BM will treat the final adjustments with really care. NAB this year belongs to BM for us low budget shooters. Canon 1D C for $15K ??? Ok canon…

Now imagine if the images from this baby come really sharp with all details we ever wanted from MKIII, nice highlight rolloff and also with no banding or moire? And it will probably happen.. then I think all complains will disappear as it never existed... lol After all we loved our beloved MKII even with all its problems.

[garypayton]

Correct : we STILL love the 5d mark II...;)

[Alex Mand]

[quote author=garypayton link=topic=613.msg4452#msg4452 date=1334951171]
Correct : we STILL love the 5d mark II...;)
[/quote]

I love mine that's for sure!  :D

And it will be a great pair with BM. Also I'm not a big fan of the stupid little DOF people insist on MKII/III. So critical that any move from the cast and you re done, must be always hacking focus... I'm often working on 5.6-8f to get a decent focus area... We can have a good shallow DOF with GH2 so I guess it will be the same on BMCC .

I guess with a Tokina 11mm-16mm 2.8, a samyang 24mm 1.4, samyang 35mm 1.4 and a canon 50mm 1.8 for those on a tight budget and you're ready for basically everything... Besides old nikons F. Put a 70-200mm an you get an amazing telephoto camera...

[jaybirch]

It is funny that last week... this place was going crazy about the FS700 and now Sony are back to being an evil company.... Somehow, Panasonic get thrown in too.... even though the gh2 is ridiculous, for the price (and it is not crippled.... they kept it at h264 standard, so it would work on all SD cards... consumer, you see).

Hell, even canon just launched the world's smallest, lightest and cheapest 4K camera and the only 4K camera with a large than S35 sensor....

I love the blackmagic move....but the evil corporations stuff is just whinging, to me.

[Alex Mand]

[quote author=jaybirch link=topic=613.msg4455#msg4455 date=1334953508]
It is funny that last week... this place was going crazy about the FS700 and now Sony are back to being an evil company.... Somehow, Panasonic get thrown in too.... even though the gh2 is ridiculous, for the price (and it is not crippled.... they kept it at h264 standard, so it would work on all SD cards... consumer, you see).

Hell, even canon just launched the world's smallest, lightest and cheapest 4K camera and the only 4K camera with a large than S35 sensor....

I love the blackmagic move....but the evil corporations stuff is just whinging, to me.
[/quote]

"Hell, even canon just launched the world's smallest, lightest and cheapest 4K camera and the only 4K camera with a large than S35 sensor...."

It's amazing indeed but will cost a little.. Just 15k. Rent camera for most of us.

And suddenly a cam capable of 12 bit RAW, 13 stops, proper audio, SDI HD inputs and everything else... For 3000. I don't know how they managed to put so many great features for this price range. I think for anything close to that you'd have to go for 35k C500...

[jaybirch]

I have a BMCC on order... amazing, what they have done.... but I am very excited to try the FS700 too... and even the1D-C if it hits for $12k... that is 3 amazing options to get on differing technologies that were out of reach for my budget (4k, super slow mo and raw/12bit/13 stops DR).

Would I like it all in one package? Sure, but I don't have that top tier bugdet, yet.

[avrofilmvideo]

[quote author=OverCranked link=topic=613.msg4435#msg4435 date=1334937945]
[quote author=avrofilmvideo link=topic=613.msg4407#msg4407 date=1334895460]
I am not going to say anything about what it takes to make decent camera BUT why would anybody cripple their nice fast wide ZE/ZF lenses on this box which looks like was designed by Stalin ENGs in 50sss..
just imagine what it will do to a new Zeiss 15mm f2.8
[/quote]

Either you haven't seen the Great Stalin's era and his stuff or you have not seen this camera  - there is no relation at all. On George Bush style fear campaign you are starting here about the lens mount could you please get Dick to issue a press package for the public knowledge/ propaganda. What the heck are you talking about !? Every where there are demo video clips and still images of this camera with Zeiss lenses that are 10 times heftier than your dinky 15/2.8 !

Find something else to troll about please.
[/quote]

Mr Troll,
What wide lenses do you specify for this camera?

[emgesp]

[quote author=dangerzonerj link=topic=613.msg4454#msg4454 date=1334953181]
[quote author=garypayton link=topic=613.msg4452#msg4452 date=1334951171]
Correct : we STILL love the 5d mark II...;)
[/quote]

I love mine that's for sure!  :D

And it will be a great pair with BM. Also I'm not a big fan of the stupid little DOF people insist on MKII/III. So critical that any move from the cast and you re done, must be always hacking focus... I'm often working on 5.6-8f to get a decent focus area... We can have a good shallow DOF with GH2 so I guess it will be the same on BMCC .

I guess with a Tokina 11mm-16mm 2.8, a samyang 24mm 1.4, samyang 35mm 1.4 and a canon 50mm 1.8 for those on a tight budget and you're ready for basically everything... Besides old nikons F. Put a 70-200mm an you get an amazing telephoto camera...
[/quote]

I can't stand the shallow depth of field on Full Frame HDSLR's with fast lenses. It's too extreme and makes focus pulling a pain in the arse. 

[jlev23]

[quote author=emgesp link=topic=613.msg4460#msg4460 date=1334968330]
[quote author=dangerzonerj link=topic=613.msg4454#msg4454 date=1334953181]
[quote author=garypayton link=topic=613.msg4452#msg4452 date=1334951171]
Correct : we STILL love the 5d mark II...;)
[/quote]

I love mine that's for sure!  :D

And it will be a great pair with BM. Also I'm not a big fan of the stupid little DOF people insist on MKII/III. So critical that any move from the cast and you re done, must be always hacking focus... I'm often working on 5.6-8f to get a decent focus area... We can have a good shallow DOF with GH2 so I guess it will be the same on BMCC .

I guess with a Tokina 11mm-16mm 2.8, a samyang 24mm 1.4, samyang 35mm 1.4 and a canon 50mm 1.8 for those on a tight budget and you're ready for basically everything... Besides old nikons F. Put a 70-200mm an you get an amazing telephoto camera...
[/quote]

I can't stand the shallow depth of field on Full Frame HDSLR's with fast lenses. It's too extreme and makes focus pulling a pain in the arse.
[/quote]
yup, im finding i have to add like 3 extra cutaway shots per scene because of loosing focus so easily. another nice thing the camera will be good for is green screen shoots, with all that raw color data and the greater DOF you get with the sensor and being on wider lenses. im even thinking a nice 16mm c-mount Angenieux 9.5-57, with an eos to cmount adapter :)

[wondo]

i can`t stand the horsepower of a ferrari, it`s too much and makes parking in front of the supermarket a pain in the arse...

guys, have you ever heard that it`s possible to stop a lens down?

[PAVP]

I'm growing tired already of the naysayers about this new Cam System.  Are we really gonna complain about how it looks?  The form factor is that bad when we already use DLSR's and FS100 etc.  All need proper help to be fully functional on a certain level.  The EF mount is a LOGICAL 1st step.  It's not likely to be the end of the matter, just the beginning.  Complaints about the internal Battery also seem lame.  There are so many battery options available that it's a moot point.  Complaints about all these minor things are just silly.  There's never been this much capability offered at this price for aspiring Film Makers.  13 Stop Dynamic Range!!!  The level of flexibility with 12bit RAW, ProRes or DNxHD is amazing.  Built in SSD?  SSD's are getting cheaper every day.  ARE YOU KIDDING ME???  The thing is it's a really nice option to have.  It's cheap enough that you can have this as your A Cam and still buy a few cheap DSLR's for other looks and features.  Then throw in the Software package and it's a no brainer IMO.  Nothing can compete with that package.  I mean COME ON!!!  You can have the BMCC and a 5D, GH2 or D800 and still come in below some of the cameras on offer from The big 4.

[rommex]

[quote author=wondo link=topic=613.msg4465#msg4465 date=1334988676]

guys, have you ever heard that it`s possible to stop a lens down?
[/quote]

wondo, why would you like to play Captain Obvious? )

Of course someone else also knows how to stop down, thus having to raise ISO level, thus using that HIGH-ISO functionality that FF cameras provide.

This whole thing was discussed 3 years ago 300 times. Don't pick it up again...

[emgesp]

I've only seen a few sample videos, but so far the video quality is impressive. I wonder what Canon/Panasonic will do if this camera really takes off.