Selling my 1DC for a 5D MKIII and an XT3/4?

[Ty Harper]

Some context, I'm a 9-5 producer (radio/tv) but in my spare time I do passion projects for my family, and to document the history of my local Black indie music scene.

I've used a 1DC/5D MKIII (ML hack) as my A and B cams respectively for years with no issues (the bigger files and ML conversion workflow is fine for me as well). But lately I've been thinking that maybe the most prudent think to do would be to keep the 5D MKIII, sell the 1DC (prob get $2-3K CAN), buy another 5D MKIII ($800 CAN) and pick up a XT3/4 ($1-2K CAN) to become my new A cam along with a Metabones speedbooster (so I can continue to use my Canon glass). 

This way I upgrade my A cam to something newer, but that can also fit in my pocket for family photos and when I want to be a bit more incognito (say overseas). 

Seem like a fair move or nah?

[EphraimP]

I've been using the T-3/4 with the Metabones since it came out with older L glass (mainly 17-40 F4 and 70-200 F2.8 non-IS). The image quality is fine. If I want to use autofocus, I tend to use my XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4, which is a nice little lens in its own right. If you do get a Fuji, be sure to get the kit with this lens even if you have equivelent EF focal lengths.

I've been a fan of the Fujis overall, and it's nice to grade from F-log, through you do have to mind your white balance, especially in low-light/under exposed situations, or I find, the colors get a bit off. They make fun stills bodies for sure, and the Fuji film simulation J-pegs really are a treat. These cameras are head and shoulders above Canon crop-sensor cameras (I shot extensively with the 70 and 80Ds). 

Your biggest issue will probably grading the 5Ds to match the Fuji. I'm sure it can be done, but in my expience Canon color and Fuji color are both very "good," as in pleasing to look at, but not very similar. If you're shooting with ML in raw, this may be less of a problem than it is starting with a baked-in Canon color profile., even one thats as flat as you can make it in-camera. Since I'm personally moving to a C70 as my A cam, I'm hoping Clog 2 will make cutting in a Fuji B cam easier, especially using Resolve's color managment or a similar tool to bring the images into a neutral color space with less user input.

Between the two Fujis, the size difference isn't really noticeable unless you're holding one after the other. The T4's extra battery life is very nice, but its IBIS isn't amazing and has bitten me in the ass on more than one occasion. For a video workflow, SmallRig's cages are great. The 4k 60p looks great, and even though the T4 does 120p in 1080 I rarely use it. When I first got the T4, I'd have recommended over the T3, now I'm not so sure. Depending on your shooting style, it might make sense to get the 3 and load up on batteries or third party power solutions (V-mount with dummie battery or a NP-F style battery with a USB port if you're going to use an external monitor).

Those are my rambling thoughts. Hope they help.

[Ty Harper]

25 minutes ago, EphraimP said:

I've been using the T-3/4 with the Metabones since it came out with older L glass (mainly 17-40 F4 and 70-200 F2.8 non-IS). The image quality is fine. If I want to use autofocus, I tend to use my XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4, which is a nice little lens in its own right. If you do get a Fuji, be sure to get the kit with this lens even if you have equivelent EF focal lengths.

I've been a fan of the Fujis overall, and it's nice to grade from F-log, through you do have to mind your white balance, especially in low-light/under exposed situations, or I find, the colors get a bit off. They make fun stills bodies for sure, and the Fuji film simulation J-pegs really are a treat. These cameras are head and shoulders above Canon crop-sensor cameras (I shot extensively with the 70 and 80Ds). 

Your biggest issue will probably grading the 5Ds to match the Fuji. I'm sure it can be done, but in my expience Canon color and Fuji color are both very "good," as in pleasing to look at, but not very similar. If you're shooting with ML in raw, this may be less of a problem than it is starting with a baked-in Canon color profile., even one thats as flat as you can make it in-camera. Since I'm personally moving to a C70 as my A cam, I'm hoping Clog 2 will make cutting in a Fuji B cam easier, especially using Resolve's color managment or a similar tool to bring the images into a neutral color space with less user input.

Between the two Fujis, the size difference isn't really noticeable unless you're holding one after the other. The T4's extra battery life is very nice, but its IBIS isn't amazing and has bitten me in the ass on more than one occasion. For a video workflow, SmallRig's cages are great. The 4k 60p looks great, and even though the T4 does 120p in 1080 I rarely use it. When I first got the T4, I'd have recommended over the T3, now I'm not so sure. Depending on your shooting style, it might make sense to get the 3 and load up on batteries or third party power solutions (V-mount with dummie battery or a NP-F style battery with a USB port if you're going to use an external monitor).

Those are my rambling thoughts. Hope they help.

Very helpful and very much appreciated, and yes matching the cameras color wise was def a concern, but in my mind I figured absolute worst case scenario I can always just use the two 5D's as A and B's (I'm totally fine with what ML gives me) and the XT3/4 as my b-roll cam. At least until I get good at color matching.

Would you say that the Metabones speedbooster is the best one to get IQ-wise compared to other brands?

[EphraimP]

16 minutes ago, Ty Harper said:

Would you say that the Metabones speedbooster is the best one to get IQ-wise compared to other brands?

Because I haven't used any other speedboosters, I couldn't definitively say if the Metabones is the best, IQ-wise. I can say that it has the best reputation adn that I've never been dissapointed in the images I get using my Canon lenses with it. The electronics also work well and it does autofocus, though, as I said, I typically use my Fuji lens if I wanted face-tracking autofocus. 

[Tim Sewell]

3 hours ago, Ty Harper said:

Very helpful and very much appreciated, and yes matching the cameras color wise was def a concern

Before spending the money, maybe download some sample files and see how you get on with matching them. I've heard good things about https://www.cinematch.com/.

 

[kye]

What are the specific things you're looking for in the XT3/4?

If you're wanting to match cameras it's always easier to start with similar cameras, or at least from the same brand in order to have a similar style in colour science.  The EOS-M series cameras are mirrorless and have an APSC sensor that can take a speed booster to use FF lenses, but also has a port of ML so you can get RAW out of it, plus it will be Canon colour science so should match much better.

Of course, if you were after features that the EOS-M lacked then I'd understand why that might not be a good fit.

[Tim Sewell]

The only EOS-M with fully working ML is the original one. It's a nice image, to be sure, but an absolutely awful camera to work with.

[IronFilm]

Why get another 5Dmk3??? Get rid of them all. And get yourself another X-T3 instead. 

[Ty Harper]

3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Why get another 5Dmk3??? Get rid of them all. And get yourself another X-T3 instead. 

Bcuz I actually like the look, don't mind the workflow, I wouldn't have to worry about color matching and the bang for buck is pretty undeniable. I see them going for as little as $700 CAN right now... but also, at that price I could totally pick up another XT3 later...

I guess my main question is should I even sell the 1DC? It has always felt to me like a collectors item...

[TomTheDP]

A fuji would be great for travel/family stuff. If you want something even smaller I'd suggest the XT-30 as long as you don't need 10 bit. Fuji lenses are also nice and compact. 

In terms of video work I'd recommend staying in the same brand as camera matching is a pain that's just not worth it. Two XT3's would be a good idea if you are looking for a 4k workflow. 

5D MK3 with magic lantern is about as nice of an image as you can get, aside from maybe a bit less dynamic range that newer cameras. 

[EphraimP]

10 hours ago, Tim Sewell said:

Before spending the money, maybe download some sample files and see how you get on with matching them. I've heard good things about https://www.cinematch.com/.

 

I'd be happy to share a few clips from the T3 or T4 in various lighting conditions, @Ty Harper, if you'd find it useful. 

1 hour ago, TomTheDP said:

A fuji would be great for travel/family stuff. If you want something even smaller I'd suggest the XT-30 as long as you don't need 10 bit. Fuji lenses are also nice and compact. 

I absolutely agree that a Fuji would be great for family/travel stuff. They are really fun cameras to handle and shoot with, especially for photo. I'm not really even sure why, because when I first got one, I was so used to the 70/80D that shooting on the T3 was slower and I'd occasionally bumble settings.

Most likely, the Fuji film sims had a lot to do with it, because it is so easy to pick between the different ones and get really nice shots with minimal effort. In photo mode, I typically shoot RAW plus Jpeg but rarely use the RAW becuase the Jpegs look so good with minimal effort.

[newfoundmass]

I think I agree with IronFilm. I think you'd get much better results if you had two of the same cameras or two cameras from the same brand. Even if you don't mind trying to match them, it just kinda seems unnecessary if you can manage to skip that step all together. 

I think you'll also find that the Fujis give you a superior image. 

It's just hard for me personally to see the benefit in having two different camera systems, especially since I unified mine to make the cameras easier to match! 😂

If Fuji ever gets rid of the 30 minute recording limits and doesn't overheat there's a good chance I'll switch from Panasonic. I love those Fuji colors. 

[EphraimP]

8 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

I think I agree with IronFilm. I think you'd get much better results if you had two of the same cameras or two cameras from the same brand. Even if you don't mind trying to match them, it just kinda seems unnecessary if you can manage to skip that step all together. 

Ha, yeah, matching two different systems can be lame. Has me questioning whether I should offload the two Fujis for another Canon body now that I'm going with the C70. Unfortunately in my case I'm not excited about Canon's mirrorless offerings, with the caviate that the new R3 might be pretty dope... but I don't want to spend what I just spent on the C70 on a mirrorless body... And I want at least one lightweight little camera for backpacking... and I do some multi-cam livestreams so owning at least 3 cameras is helpful.

On the other hand, @Ty Harper said he might use the 5Ds for A and B cams, I'm assuming for interviews, and using the Fuji for b-roll. In my opinion this makes some sense and can work. If you are not looking at two versions of the same image (tight talking head+wide) color differnences aren't as easy to spot. And, many folks color grade their b-roll stylistically, so shooting with a different camera sort of bakes that into the process.

Oh, the joys of camera researching/buying...

[mercer]

Just my opinion, from my experience, but if you like the ML Raw image from the 5Diii and don't mind the workflow, I think you'll have to spend a lot more money to be happy.

@TomTheDP was absolutely correct when he wrote, "5D MK3 with magic lantern is about as nice of an image as you can get..." 

With what is on the market now, I really think I'd need a C200 or 1DX Mark III to warrant an upgrade.

YMMV

[Ty Harper]

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

I think I agree with IronFilm. I think you'd get much better results if you had two of the same cameras or two cameras from the same brand. Even if you don't mind trying to match them, it just kinda seems unnecessary if you can manage to skip that step all together. 

I think you'll also find that the Fujis give you a superior image. 

It's just hard for me personally to see the benefit in having two different camera systems, especially since I unified mine to make the cameras easier to match! 😂

If Fuji ever gets rid of the 30 minute recording limits and doesn't overheat there's a good chance I'll switch from Panasonic. I love those Fuji colors. 

Yes, which is why the plan was to sell the 1DC and get another 5D MKIII (I already have one) along with an XT3/4. That way if I can't match the XT3/4 to the 5D MKIII (ML) I can still use it for b-roll but the XT3/4 would also become my walk around family/travel camera.

[Ty Harper]

47 minutes ago, mercer said:

Just my opinion, from my experience, but if you like the ML Raw image from the 5Diii and don't mind the workflow, I think you'll have to spend a lot more money to be happy.

@TomTheDP was absolutely correct when he wrote, "5D MK3 with magic lantern is about as nice of an image as you can get..." 

With what is on the market now, I really think I'd need a C200 or 1DX Mark III to warrant an upgrade.

YMMV

I agree. In a perfect world I'd pick up the C70 or 1DX MKIII but they are well beyond my budget as a hobbyist. 

If I recall you were a fan of the 1DC as well, would you sell yours now if u were in my shoes? 

[mercer]

23 minutes ago, Ty Harper said:

I agree. In a perfect world I'd pick up the C70 or 1DX MKIII but they are well beyond my budget as a hobbyist. 

Me too. I'd go C200 over the C70 for a crop sensor camera. That RawLite image is beautiful...

I'm hoping the rumored XC20 with internal Raw is real. But then the cost of media is pretty pricey. 

29 minutes ago, Ty Harper said:

If I recall you were a fan of the 1DC as well, would you sell yours now if u were in my shoes? 

I've never used a 1DC, so I couldn't really say, but from what I've seen online, it has one of my favorite 4K images.

I considered an X-T4 a few months ago and I think it has a beautiful image. The h.265 codec is a bit of a bummer for me, but I'm used to transcoding footage so it isn't a big deal. In the end, I found myself too consistently pleased with the images I am getting from my 5D, so I decided against it. Although I would love to have IBIS and face tracking.

Another option for you could be the Sigma FP. I don't shoot stills, so the electronic shutter could be problematic... I can't say. But it definitely has that nice, thick raw image...

 

The price is right with the FP, but it seems to be a storage hog. Even the 8bit internal 4K raw... actually looks really good. This was shot by @markr041

But the file sizes are almost twice as heavy as 5D Mark III file sizes... even in 1080p. But the size of the camera is sooo appealing. Shooting handheld with the 5Diii and the 24-70mm f/4 L can get a bit heavy after a while.

Noam Kroll gave the Canon M50 Mark II a pretty good review. I'd imagine it would be pretty good for travel and family videos/photos, but I don't know how great it would intercut with ML Raw from the 5Diii... and it has a near S16 crop.

I think I'm in a similar situation. I wouldn't mind an upgrade, and although I only work on narratives, I'm still just a hobbyist, so any kind of change isn't really an upgrade in IQ... especially for YT/Vimeo uploads.

 

[Ty Harper]

On 7/16/2021 at 2:58 AM, Tim Sewell said:

Before spending the money, maybe download some sample files and see how you get on with matching them. I've heard good things about https://www.cinematch.com/.

 

Thanks for this, had never heard of cinematch, seems like a gamechanger if they keep updating it...