An EOSHD Interview with Yosuke Yamane - Are Panasonic working on an L-mount cinema camera?

[Andrew Reid]

I recently had the opportunity to ask Yosuke Yamane-san, Director of Panasonic's Imaging Division some questions about the current and future Panasonic line-up, including the upcoming GH6 and how Panasonic can continue to build on the success of the S1, S5 and S1H with new video features.

Read the interview here:

https://www.eoshd.com/news/an-eoshd-interview-with-yosuke-yamane-are-panasonic-working-on-an-l-mount-cinema-camera/

[ND64]

If the only option is copying this huge Sony mechanism.. I'm afraid its not practical for mirrorless still camera.

 

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

53 minutes ago, Eric Calabros said:

If the only option is copying this huge Sony mechanism.. I'm afraid its not practical for mirrorless still camera.

 

From what I got from the interview, and the "I need the FULL FRAME LOOK" craze, forget internal NDs on the GH6 - it will make the camera bigger, and in this case almost everyone will say "the only m43 advantage is being mobile and compact, this bigger body is shit".

[Andrew Reid]

2 hours ago, Eric Calabros said:

If the only option is copying this huge Sony mechanism.. I'm afraid its not practical for mirrorless still camera.

 

Good find with the diagram.

Certainly more space required than a GH6 gives you.

But as far as professional mirrorless cameras and high-end DSLRs go, it's not as tall as a GFX 100 and isn't much taller than an A7S III in a cage. About the same height as a 1D C.

So for an S1H Mark II with vertical grip size form factor it would work.

Filter is larger of course for FF sensor vs S35

However if you look at where the Clear filter slides out, the filter itself only sticks out just below the circumference of E-mount and it is the holding structure that needs all that extra room.

[davidp158]

I look forward to what the GH6 has to offer, and hope Panasonic continues to develop more L mount glass. The built-in ND filter option would be sooooo nice, especially for video shooters, but I understand the implications of changing the body size to accommodate it. The electronic ND on my old Sony FS5 was a wonderful thing, and I'm surprised that it hasn't become a standard feature on other cinema cameras by now.

As an owner of GH4, GH5, EVA1 and S1H, I am somewhat committed to Panasonic for my work flow. I never had great results color grading Sony Slog, but get consistently great results with Panasonic Vlog.

One feature that could be useful is a voice driven menu. In the field I often spend more time hunting for seldom used features buried in the menus. All Panasonic hybrid cameras have microphones, and the menu data set can't be very large, so voice recognition would be relatively easy. Of course, if would have to be multi-lingual for different regions, but that would be an easy firmware patch. Wishful thinking...

[MrSMW]

Interested to see what the GH6 will be but the strongest contender for my third (and final) body for what will now be 2022, is another S1H.

Though if an ‘H’ version of the S5 came out as the S1H is to the S1, I’d be all over that.

[Caleb Genheimer]

@Andrew Reid

If you keep a list of things to poke camera manufacturers about, add 32bit float audio to the lineup. IMO it would be a paradigm shift in “scratch” and on-camera audio to include even a decent float system. Heck, a simplicity-first company like Blackmagic Design could do away with audio controls in float mode entirely, opting only for a headphone volume control (or even auto level monitoring).

I use a 32bit float recorder at work all the time, and I literally don’t have to think about its operation beyond power-up, verification of the mic signal, and hitting the record button.

[herein2020]

4 hours ago, Caleb Genheimer said:

@Andrew Reid

If you keep a list of things to poke camera manufacturers about, add 32bit float audio to the lineup. IMO it would be a paradigm shift in “scratch” and on-camera audio to include even a decent float system. Heck, a simplicity-first company like Blackmagic Design could do away with audio controls in float mode entirely, opting only for a headphone volume control (or even auto level monitoring).

I use a 32bit float recorder at work all the time, and I literally don’t have to think about its operation beyond power-up, verification of the mic signal, and hitting the record button.

I have a MixPre6 II that has this and its pretty incredible. I doubt it will make it to any cameras anytime soon especially hybrids. Audio is an afterthought for most of them and their approach is if you want something better use a separate recorder. Panasonic's XLR module is excellent though for what it is and I use it all the time with the S5.

[sanveer]

Interesting interview.

"High speed USB SSD storage in M.2 format has a small footprint. Why doesn’t Panasonic make a detachable battery grip for RAW recording containing an M.2 slot? And would this be classed as “external” recording or “internal” recording? Is this different classification a problem for patents?"

 

I couldn't agree more. Though his response suggested that he didnt get the RED Patent refence, and also didn't wanna give RAW via HDMI/USB-C on the GH Range(?). Do any of the GH/M43 cameras have external RAW recording? Curiously, Panasonic doesn't seem to want to equip the GH6 much above the GH5, regardless of what the customers want. They are keen to protect the S-line, and seem to want to go to great lengths to handicap the GH6 just that little bit. Though he did mention a much sturdier codec ("high editing tolerance that can meet the demands of various clients").

I guess, they may stick to a sturdier (?) version of the 10-bit 4-2-2 codec for now (a good ProRed alternative?). RAW will either be completely missed or may come much later with a paid firmware update (?). 

[newfoundmass]

Internal ND would be nice, obviously, but I don't mind putting an ND on my lenses when needed. 

Phase detect auto focus, 32-bit float audio (good idea!), recording to SSD, and a form of internal RAW are all things that I care more about. To me screwing on ND is a relatively painless task, but other things aren't as easy to work around, like needing an external monitor for RAW or an external recorder for 32-bit float audio. That adds bulk and weight to my set up which is typically very compact. 

[newfoundmass]

1 minute ago, sanveer said:

Do any of the GH/M43 cameras have external RAW recording?

The GH5s has external RAW. Olympus enabled it on at least one camera, if I recall correctly. 

I suspect the GH6 will have it. 

[newfoundmass]

7 minutes ago, sanveer said:

Curiously, Panasonic doesn't seem to want to equip the GH6 much above the GH5, regardless of what the customers want. They are keen to protect the S-line, and seem to want to go to great lengths to handicap the GH6 just that little bit. 

We don't know enough about the GH6 to say that, unless you have the inside scoop? 

[kye]

18 minutes ago, sanveer said:

Curiously, Panasonic doesn't seem to want to equip the GH6 much above the GH5, regardless of what the customers want. They are keen to protect the S-line, and seem to want to go to great lengths to handicap the GH6 just that little bit. Though he did mention a much sturdier codec ("high editing tolerance that can meet the demands of various clients").

What is it that the S-line has that the GH6 won't have?

My impression of what the market wants, apart from PDAF, isn't much beyond the C4K 10-bit 422 unlimited of the GH6.  

In fact, the GH groups/forums that I'm in are so populated with people who just bought a GH5 (and more join every day) that it's hard to get past the newbie questions, and these people are so happy to get a camera with even the GH5 specifications.

[sanveer]

20 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

We don't know enough about the GH6 to say that, unless you have the inside scoop? 

That's what I seem to feel from this interview. And the perpetual emphasis on Pro for the S-limg and portability, size and zoom for the M43 lineup. 

[sanveer]

24 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

The GH5s has external RAW. Olympus enabled it on at least one camera, if I recall correctly. 

I suspect the GH6 will have it. 

Yes, my bad, I remember reading that (M43rumours?). Then why does he possibly mention issues with continuous recordingwith reference to the question on RAW and recording into an SSD (in the gri, like Andrew suggested). I felt some of his answers were in parallels. He probably didn't get the question clearly. 

[sanveer]

10 minutes ago, kye said:

What is it that the S-line has that the GH6 won't have?

My impression of what the market wants, apart from PDAF, isn't much beyond the C4K 10-bit 422 unlimited of the GH6.  

In fact, the GH groups/forums that I'm in are so populated with people who just bought a GH5 (and more join every day) that it's hard to get past the newbie questions, and these people are so happy to get a camera with even the GH5 specifications.

Interestingly. The GH5 does pretty amazing at what it does. Only a slightly improve autofocus and better low light seem to be the only things that most people ask, I guess. Plus, throwing in a Netflix approval wouldn't be too bad (I am guessing Panasonic may be working on it). That may require a certain kind of timecode and a certain standard of Log profile (?). 

[newfoundmass]

1 hour ago, sanveer said:

That's what I seem to feel from this interview. And the perpetual emphasis on Pro for the S-limg and portability, size and zoom for the M43 lineup. 

He said nothing about the GH6 that we didn't already know and wasn't going to break any news in an interview. He did however emphasize that the GH6 is for professional use and talked about "serious amateurs" after Andrew brought up enthusiasts. 

These interviews are less about giving us information on future releases and more on getting an idea on where they're going technology wise, their attitude and viewpoints on potential features, and just an acknowledgment that they're aware about what their users are looking for. 

I have no doubt that the GH6 will be a powerful camera with most, or maybe even more, of the professional features in their S line. 

[TomTheDP]

The thing about screw on ND's is they cause glare, that's why people use matte boxes. I'd rather not have to use a matte box as it adds a lot of bulk and requires a hassle when switching lenses. 

I really want to see internal ND's in the next Panasonic camera, if the Canon C70 can do it Pana should too. Maybe not with the GH6 as a big appeal with M43 is the smaller size.  However the S1H2 should definitely have it.

[kye]

4 hours ago, sanveer said:

Interestingly. The GH5 does pretty amazing at what it does. Only a slightly improve autofocus and better low light seem to be the only things that most people ask, I guess. Plus, throwing in a Netflix approval wouldn't be too bad (I am guessing Panasonic may be working on it). That may require a certain kind of timecode and a certain standard of Log profile (?). 

The GH5 has so many features that the only thing more shameful than the other manufacturers not matching it is that people bought the more recent cameras that failed to meet the standard it set.

It's not the best camera in the world by any stretch, but it screws customers the least, and might even be the camera that cripples the hardware the least.  BMs cameras also don't cripple the hardware too much.  I imagine that's why both the GH and Pocket camera lines are so popular.

In terms of what people want from a camera, mostly the feature lists show how immature people are as cinematographers and how little they understand film-making, even to the point where they understand it so little that they don't even know that their feature requests make them look like idiots.

2 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

The thing about screw on ND's is they cause glare, that's why people use matte boxes. I'd rather not have to use a matte box as it adds a lot of bulk and requires a hassle when switching lenses. 

I really want to see internal ND's in the next Panasonic camera, if the Canon C70 can do it Pana should too. Maybe not with the GH6 as a big appeal with M43 is the smaller size.  However the S1H2 should definitely have it.

One thing that strikes me is that an internal fixed ND is great for getting things in the ballpark and I'd still need a vND to dial in the exposure properly.  For me, and others shooting fast or in less controlled lighting, I don't want to adjust the aperture to fine-tune the exposure and can't dial up and down all the lights to get it right on, so having internal NDs doesn't have enough control.

How do you find that most people deal with this situation?  ie, where they want to shoot exteriors at a wider aperture and thus need more ND than a single vND can give?  Do they put on a fixed ND and a vND?  I have both but find stacking them very cumbersome.

[MrSMW]

The drop in between lens and body system is the best IMO.

I’d like that option for L Mount very much.