Major Price Drop For The Ursa Mini Pro 12K

[maxmizer]

On 10/15/2021 at 4:19 AM, IronFilm said:

Just this is a big reason why a friend was considering a UMP12K recently (from a FS7), but went for a Sony FX9 instead. 

you have a confused friend 😂

[IronFilm]

11 hours ago, maxmizer said:

you have a confused friend 😂

"Confused" for picking a Sony FX9 over URSA? 
Nope, is just that an in house DoP at an Advertising Agency has very different needs and wants to what an average forum poster has. 

[kye]

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

"Confused" for picking a Sony FX9 over URSA? 
Nope, is just that an in house DoP at an Advertising Agency has very different needs and wants to what an average forum poster has. 

...and the average forum poster also has very different needs than wants!!

[maxmizer]

On 10/20/2021 at 6:42 AM, IronFilm said:

"Confused" for picking a Sony FX9 over URSA? 
Nope, is just that an in house DoP at an Advertising Agency has very different needs and wants to what an average forum poster has. 

I would put it more professionally, if he has an fs7 s35, I would think he also has s35 lenses (if he's a good professional) ... that's why I thought your friend a little .... "confused" ...
certainly that then ... maybe he used full frame lenses on s35 ...

[Emanuel]

Well, at least either way he can always end lighter than the poor back of the cameraman using the new DJI toy...

: D

 

Disclaimer:

BTW I love DJI tools! (EAG :- )

[IronFilm]

10 hours ago, maxmizer said:

I would put it more professionally, if he has an fs7 s35, I would think he also has s35 lenses (if he's a good professional) ... that's why I thought your friend a little .... "confused" ...
certainly that then ... maybe he used full frame lenses on s35 ...

Now I think about it, am not sure I can remember exactly what lenses he used back with the FS7? Even though I worked for them quite a few times. (plus I was manly just brought in on their "bigger jobs", when it is more likely he'd be renting in lenses)

But many people use FF on S35, such as Rokinon primes, with maybe just one or two S35 specific lenses to handle the very wide end. 

And even if they were using exclusively using S35 lenses, it wouldn't have been a huge deal for him to swap those over to a new set I'd guess. 

Additionally, URSA Mini Pro is EF/PL mount, the FS7 is E Mount. Thus if you just had E Mount lenses, then no matter for what sensor size they are, if you've only got E Mount lenses, you'd have to be swapping over your lens collection to something else anyway. 

[kye]

3 hours ago, IronFilm said:

And even if they were using exclusively using S35 lenses, it wouldn't have been a huge deal for him to swap those over to a new set I'd guess. 

Additionally, URSA Mini Pro is EF/PL mount, the FS7 is E Mount. Thus if you just had E Mount lenses, then no matter for what sensor size they are, if you've only got E Mount lenses, you'd have to be swapping over your lens collection to something else anyway. 

Yes, and in the vintage lens FB groups I'm in there seem to be a lot of complete sets changing hands, so it's a route that can save a lot of time and hassle.  Of course, it's interesting for me to watch as you see a listing and a few lines of text and maybe part of a photo, click on it as you're curious, and.... WOW $50,000 ono!  With that many zeroes it's like the prices jump out from behind a tree at you!

[IronFilm]

Yup, prices of vintage lens sets have been going a bit insane lately.

[Emanuel]

Which proves digital was not the end of film, just a transformation (EAG :- )

[kye]

1 hour ago, IronFilm said:

Yup, prices of vintage lens sets have been going a bit insane lately.

I think the smart money is on Rokkor glass.  If I could be bothered I'd snap a bunch of As New lenses up now, before they do what FD lenses did over the last few years, and CZ before them.  One of the big vintage lens YouTubers I watch reviewed his first Rokkors and the comment was that the build quality made FD lenses seem (IIRC he said "light" but something indicating the Rokkors might be more solid than the FDs).

I also saw someone show off their set of Hexanons earlier today, which wasn't something I'd thought people made sets of. The comment about the 40/1.8 (which wasn't in their set) was "creamy".  I have two copies of that lens and I found it too soft on MFT wide-open, but if you're using the whole image circle and looking for a dreamy look or will stop down some then yeah, I can imagine a set of those being in a similar territory to USSR lenses and their (desirable) imperfections.

Lots of other brands out there for collecting still.

[BabsDoProd]

Yeah, we have built up sets of different lenses over times, love Konica Hexanons and Minoltas! I'm also finding out about Pentax K lenses but they're strange in that I don't see much difference with M42 Takumars for the main focal lengths, however, I much prefer the locking K mount to the finicky M42 mount. I'm looking at selling off a bunch of stuff as we just have too much, still got to categorize and clean some up after coming into possession of a large camera collection on top of our already too big personal collection, not sure where we'll be selling as of yet. It does hurt that the Ursa 12K doesn't have a mirrorless mount as there's so many cool lens sets to adapt that people haven't discovered yet! 

[maxmizer]

On 10/22/2021 at 5:09 AM, IronFilm said:

Now I think about it, am not sure I can remember exactly what lenses he used back with the FS7? Even though I worked for them quite a few times. (plus I was manly just brought in on their "bigger jobs", when it is more likely he'd be renting in lenses)

But many people use FF on S35, such as Rokinon primes, with maybe just one or two S35 specific lenses to handle the very wide end. 

And even if they were using exclusively using S35 lenses, it wouldn't have been a huge deal for him to swap those over to a new set I'd guess. 

Additionally, URSA Mini Pro is EF/PL mount, the FS7 is E Mount. Thus if you just had E Mount lenses, then no matter for what sensor size they are, if you've only got E Mount lenses, you'd have to be swapping over your lens collection to something else anyway. 

I state ... neither of them interest me ... in answer to your question ... yes many s35 cinema lenses ... from which ursa is not good because the graft is not very adaptable, 8k in s35 would have been fine if it had attack E vs Sony on the whole underperforming ...

[majoraxis]

The USRA Mini Pro 12k with Camera Update 7.7 promises improved performance including:

• Improved color balance.
• Improved demosaic for better shadow detail MTF.
• Improved demosaic to reduce moire effects on fine patterns.
• USB-C connection improvements.
• Improved compatibility with ExAscend U.2 disks on URSA Mini Recorder.

Here's a link to the press release:

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/media/release/20211220-01

Not bad considering that you can now get them used for $5k.

Thanks for continuing to invest Blackmagic, the 12k is my next camera for sure!

 

Does this mean I do not need to purchase the RAWLITE Optical Low Pass Filter? I hope so...

[TomTheDP]

The 12k is definitely a great offer. I can't help but think a full frame camera would have flown off their shelves. But I do love the 12k sensor tech. Hope to see more from them with that sensor technology.

[majoraxis]

3 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

The 12k is definitely a great offer. I can't help but think a full frame camera would have flown off their shelves. But I do love the 12k sensor tech. Hope to see more from them with that sensor technology.

If they increase the sensor size with 25% large photo sites (better lowlight and dynamic range?) they could potentially use virtually the same electronics and modify the hardware with larger ND window and larger throat to the sensor etc. to accommodate a full frame sensor.

If they added on sensor electronic ND's, they could reengineer the lens mount accommodate shorter flange distance mounts like the RF and even micro 4/3.

I would also like to see/hear 32 bit audio on their next URSA mini pro release. Then we would have pseudo RAW video and audio.

One of the benefits of the BRAW architecture is that I can record 12k or 8k and if my computer has trouble playing it back, I can down sample it to 4k or 2k on the fly and it will play back fined without having to make a proxy. USB-C connection to NVMe M.2 makes this workflow possible and affordable. These drives are so fast and currently on sale for about the same price as a 2.5" SSD drive.

Seems like Blackmagic has solved most of the problem at the same time.  Affordable high performance storage via USB-C. Scaleable RAW like codec for high resolution low band acquisition. Architecture to support for scaleable playback without transcoding. Editing environment to support BRAW. Cinema camera from factor with professional connection the XLR, SDI, PL Mount and B4 mount and lens connection, view finder option, time code.

So what are they missing?

• Full frame?
• World class auto focus?
• Electronic ND?
• RF mount?
• 32-bit audio?
• Better dynamic range?
• Better low light?
• Selling their own lenses and lighting so that they can offer end to end solutions and support.
• Renting and loaning their own cameras, lenses, lighting, editing workstations at a discount in markets they want to enter.
• Provide local support offices in every major market so they can personally fix any problem that may arise.
• Provide workflow case studies so that productions can justify adoption.
• "Acquire" name brand endorsers.
• Focus efforts to be listed as being shot on for award winning productions.
• Charge 5 to 10 times as much to pay for market dominating infrastructure and accusation.

As someone who wants to continue to be able to afford Blackmagic cinema products, I hope they continue to grow organically (like Aputure) into professional markets rather that build the infrastructure and acquire the adjacent product lines to try and dominate the professional market by force of will.

With a better economy Blackmagic probably would not have had to lower the price of the 12k to get it to sell, but I'm glad they did because, if not I would not be able to justify purchasing in one (used).

Thanks Blackmagic! Your approach is just right. Steady as she goes Captain Petty, steady as she goes.

Regardless of the price drop and how many 12k are selling, the Blackmagic URSA Mini Pro 12k is the King of Affordable Professional Cinema Cameras.

 

 

 

[bjohn]

6 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

I can't help but think a full frame camera would have flown off their shelves.

I'm not sure: they're marketing this camera mainly to cinematographers, most of whom aren't interested in full-frame as it's still not used much (relative to Super-35) in cinema, but agree that it would be more versatile and could appeal more to people working in other genres.

[seanzzxx]

The yield of full frame sensors is lower. With the 12k already coming in at 10k initially (which a lot of people thought was way too expensive for a Blackmagic camera and which Blackmagic blamed on the sensor being designed in-house) I’m pretty sure the sensor would simply get too expensive for Blackmagic’s market range.

[TomTheDP]

15 hours ago, bjohn said:

I'm not sure: they're marketing this camera mainly to cinematographers, most of whom aren't interested in full-frame as it's still not used much (relative to Super-35) in cinema, but agree that it would be more versatile and could appeal more to people working in other genres.

S35 still gets a lot of use but all the high end stuff in my area gets shot on the LF or maybe a full frame RED. Most high end cinema is the LF as well. The lower end market seems to be obsessed with full frame. I guess BM is targeting the middle of the two ends.

 

14 hours ago, seanzzxx said:

The yield of full frame sensors is lower. With the 12k already coming in at 10k initially (which a lot of people thought was way too expensive for a Blackmagic camera and which Blackmagic blamed on the sensor being designed in-house) I’m pretty sure the sensor would simply get too expensive for Blackmagic’s market range.

Yeah I know they said a full frame camera is too expensive to do. Every other company is doing them though. I guess BM is a smaller company. Of course I can see why the in house design would be too pricey with full frame.

[kye]

If you can handle the form-factor.....

 

[webrunner5]

It is a better form factor than a Red. A little box with a monitor on top is not my idea of ideal. It is a baby ENG camera, and they are Really comfortable to use for hours at a time.