Original Ursa Mini 4.6k in 2021

[And1]

Now, in 2021, that Pocket 6k/4k/6k Pro are out and in smaller prices than bigger cinema cameras, does cameras like Ursa Mini 4.6k (have a chance to buy it fully rigged for the same cost as a Pocket 6k) worth it as an a-cam for Narratives and Commercial work?  Or could it be more of a hassle due to size, file sizes and low light performance?

I can't shake the feeling that it is more Alexa like, regarding image quality, but modern sensors might worth it more nowadays.

What's your take?

[Anaconda_]

I use the original UM4.6k (not the pro) fairly often, but honestly, it's a pain in the ass compared to the pocket cameras. given the choice, I ALWAYS take a Pocket 4k over the UM4.6k

Unless you can find one with the EVF and shoulder mount kit, I don't think it's worth picking one up. The ONLY thing I like about it, over the pocket line, is physical audio dials to adjust the input levels. 

That said, when I shoot with the Pockets, I shoot Braw and enjoy playing in post. When I shoot with the UM4.6k, it's for in-camera results in ProRes, and the footage goes straight off to an editor. 

It's far from a bad camera, and the prices are very interesting. But I think you'll be better off waiting a little longer for the first generation of the Pro 4.6k to come down in price. At least then you also have NDs and a few other treats. 

Around here, they're going for about the same price as a brand new Pocket 6k pro.

 

[Django]

Agreed. Nothing Mini about the UM just like the "Pocket". They're a PITA to use imo. You have the compromises of a big heavy bulky ENG cam with V-mount system but with no NDs or included EVF. The media is expensive. Many were plagued with magenta shift. I don't see any reason to buy one today over a 6K Pro unless you absolutely need SDI and even then I'd indeed go for the UM Pro if you absolutely wanna stay in the BM ecosystem. 

 

[MurtlandPhoto]

At this point I don’t see enough upsides to get the 4.6K. Personally I bought the Ursa Mini Pro earlier this year which is largely the same camera. It’s big and heavy making it a pain in the ass sometimes compared to my Pocket 6K. BUT, the ND filters, BRAW to SD cards, shoulder kit and EVF, SDI, and full XLR inputs give it an edge over my other cams. 
 

If your intention is to shoot on sticks or handheld, I think the Pockets are far better choices than the 4.6K right now. 

[And1]

I guess Ill be getting the Pocket 6k, and save up (instead of going for the Pro), with an extra lens or equipment (extra lights, better mics, etc). 

Thank you for your replies

[M_Williams]

2 hours ago, And1 said:

I guess Ill be getting the Pocket 6k, and save up (instead of going for the Pro), with an extra lens or equipment (extra lights, better mics, etc). 

Thank you for your replies

Why would you choose the Pocket 6K over the 6K Pro at this point? $500 for internal NDs, tilt screen, larger battery, and the ability to add an awesome tilting EVF.

[And1]

Because I already have been using a Variable ND, V mount which I also planned to use with the Pro and external monitor, also never use evf - and was thinking of putting the extra money on a Leica R 19mm that I ve found. Also in a very attractive price. I thought it would be good to sacrifice the Pro for that (can't buy both the Pro and the lens due to budget restrictions) 

[andrgl]

@And1 Make sure you can return the camera if not satisfied or do some extensive tests; some Blackmagic sensors exhibit excessive FPN or have other issues (crosshatching, color clipping, etc.)

The UM4.6k is a great but I personally would not buy a used Blackmagic camera (unless it’s from a chain.)

[TomTheDP]

I think you'd be better off going with the URSA mini pro as they go for pretty cheap these days. Internal ND's are a huge plus. If you get a good sensor the OG URSA 4.6k is solid though. The old 5in screen was really nice to have. CDNG is the best RAW you can get though the files are pretty big, you do have the option to do 4:1 though. You also can do HD or 2k at 444 which is great and not an option on the Pocket cams. 

4.6K up to 60fps in prores is nice too and makes the camera still competitive today in my opinion. FPN isn't an issue unless you really push the shadows or if you shoot above 800 iso. 

I actually like the URSA size, its about 5 pounds and easy to rig up. The power draw isn't too bad either like some older cine cameras. 

Having SDI is nice for a lot of work. You won't have to deal with monitor lag like with HDMI. For media I'd recommend Cfast to SDD options. There are a lot of small and cheap options if you go that route. 

Overall its a solid camera unless you need to shoot at high ISO. I'd also spring for the Mini Pro as ND's are a big advantage in my book. If buying use make sure to test if the sensor has the magenta tone vignetting. Also keep in mind you'll want an IR cut filter when using ND's, the URSA is pretty sensitive when it comes to that.

[IronFilm]

Do you need to do the whole show and pony gig for a client? 

No? Then don't get an original URSA Mini 4.6K body, get yourself a P6K Pro, or any of the fantastic mirrorless we have now. (S5/X-S10/GH5mk2/etc)

Yes? I still don't think you should get it. As likely with a little hunting more, and a little bit more saving, you could get a much more preferable URSA Mini Pro with internal NDs and many numerous smaller refinements as well, plus likely an EVF too and other accessories as a bargain thrown in! Or heck, not even a UMP but something else like a Sony FS7, Sony F5, Panasonic EVA1, Canon C200, etc are all very similar in pricing these days to a UMP. I'd happily any day of the week take one of those Sony cameras or the Panasonic instead of a UMP. 

I've worked with the UMP on paid shoots, and too much frustrated me about it. Lack of outputs, inability to delete files, the weight and power draw, etc. It is for sure a nice camera, but I'm happier to own another camera instead. 

[MurtlandPhoto]

On 8/25/2021 at 9:27 AM, MurtlandPhoto said:

Personally I bought the Ursa Mini Pro earlier this year which is largely the same camera. It’s big and heavy making it a pain in the ass sometimes compared to my Pocket 6K. BUT, the ND filters, BRAW to SD cards, shoulder kit and EVF, SDI, and full XLR inputs give it an edge over my other cams.

Well now, just over month later, I cannot recommend the Ursa Mini Pro to anyone. On Sept. 5 my UMP died out of nowhere in the middle of a shoot. Completely black image off the sensor, no menus, no image from SDI, won't playback clips... DEAD. I talked to Blackmagic and other users. It turns out this is a fatal sensor issue that Blackmagic will not service at all. They won't even take the camera to assess it—all they needed was an email conversation to confirm this was the issue. I can't recommend a camera from a company that refuses to service their own product. They'll still service the G2, but for how long?? Is that worth the risk? Not for me. Not while I'm dealing with insurance.

 

I've moved on to the Panasonic EVA1 to match my S1 in Vlog. The menu system feels like I'm in the stone ages compared to Blackmagic's fantastic menus and the screen is utter garbage, but the image is simply amazing and right up on par with the UMP. 

[A_Urquhart]

Get the Pocket 6K Pro. It’s well worth the $500 extra over the 6K and I think a better/ more versatile camera than the UMP G1. Plus, but it new and you have a warranty. 
I’ve used my 6K Pro on commercials as a B Cam to Alexa Mini and post houses say it’s easy enough to match so not sure if the G1 is any more ‘Alexa like’ as you say. 
 

in regards to the UMP 4.6K G1, is that camera still limited to a max iso of 1600?

[TomTheDP]

4 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

Get the Pocket 6K Pro. It’s well worth the $500 extra over the 6K and I think a better/ more versatile camera than the UMP G1. Plus, but it new and you have a warranty. 
I’ve used my 6K Pro on commercials as a B Cam to Alexa Mini and post houses say it’s easy enough to match so not sure if the G1 is any more ‘Alexa like’ as you say. 
 

in regards to the UMP 4.6K G1, is that camera still limited to a max iso of 1600?

I think so. You'd not want to shoot past 800 iso either way though. 

[A_Urquhart]

3 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

I think so. You'd not want to shoot past 800 iso either way though. 

I rarely go over 800 but have done quite a few times on the 6K pro quite a few times without issue. With the dual gain iso, you just need to know which isos to stay away from 

[TomTheDP]

23 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

I rarely go over 800 but have done quite a few times on the 6K pro quite a few times without issue. With the dual gain iso, you just need to know which isos to stay away from 

Yeah 6K pro is a different story due to dual native ISO. On the URSA if you shoot above 800 iso you get fixed noise pattern banding. 

[JTD]

I love the URSA Mini 4.6K and the Pro model for their image, but they're ridiculously unreliable. An earlier post by MurtlandPhoto tells of exactly the same issue I'm having in May of 2022. My original 4.6K just failed with a blank screen. If you go to the forums on the BM website or on Reddit, you'll find lots of examples of the same issue. BM won't fix older cameras. The best you can do is to find an independent repair shop who's willing to poke around. A couple of places have told me it's possible to fix them, but not a sure thing.

[Andrew Reid]

On 5/28/2022 at 12:25 AM, JTD said:

I love the URSA Mini 4.6K and the Pro model for their image, but they're ridiculously unreliable. An earlier post by MurtlandPhoto tells of exactly the same issue I'm having in May of 2022. My original 4.6K just failed with a blank screen. If you go to the forums on the BM website or on Reddit, you'll find lots of examples of the same issue. BM won't fix older cameras. The best you can do is to find an independent repair shop who's willing to poke around. A couple of places have told me it's possible to fix them, but not a sure thing.

Not surprising to me that Blackmagic refuses to fix a camera when it is a day older than 12 months. They are an awful company to deal with if you have a problem. They will throw it back to you and sometimes even put the blame on you. That's just my experience but heard similar from a lot of other people as well.

[newfoundmass]

3 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Not surprising to me that Blackmagic refuses to fix a camera when it is a day older than 12 months. They are an awful company to deal with if you have a problem. They will throw it back to you and sometimes even put the blame on you. That's just my experience but heard similar from a lot of other people as well.

I've heard similar, though they were very easy to deal with when my OG BMPCC stopped working. They had me send it in, emailed me that they'd fix it for free, a week passed, and a brand new camera complete in shrink wrap arrived instead. But they were a much smaller company back then. 

[j_one]

Sorry to bump this old old, but I have the opportunity to pick up the original 4.6k for around $1300, perhaps even less if I negotiate. Need you guys help! I was dead set on picking up a used pocket 6K or even used pcoket G2 for around the same price, but for my work I'd benefit from SDI connections and client perception of the "professional" form factor. Working on a budget.

I don't mind forgoing the added benefits the Pro G1/G2 bring. I've tried the ursa mini G2 as well as the pocket 6k pro on set and came to the conclusion that I'd still rather use my own IRNDs of choice as they would perform better with IR pollution more consistently than the included NDs in those models.

My question is, with everything stated in this thread so far, is it just not worth dealing with the quality control issues, even if I plan to upgrade past it within the next few months? Even for this price? I'm tired of renting for the time being; need something in-house for a massive push of original content to get my company up and going (mostly corporate/commercial with some narrative film work in the mix).

Admittedly I feel as though I should save for something in the sub $2.5-$3k territory. A dream would be to get the EVA-1 used, but I'm content with building with the 6k or 4.6k models until I can afford the likes of a C70/Fx6 in-house.

I come from loving budget cameras that produce meaty CDNG files (original bmpcc, 5D magic lantern etc) so if I was a hobbyist I'd buy just call it a day with the Sigma FP. Operation features like autofocus and the like aren't as desired, but I'm looking for a balance between bang-for-buck image and client-level operation...hope that makes sense?

I'm considered other options, like the fs700/fs5 with recorder too. Not a fan of the C200 image.

Thanks guys!

[FHDcrew]

27 minutes ago, j_one said:

Sorry to bump this old old, but I have the opportunity to pick up the original 4.6k for around $1300, perhaps even less if I negotiate. Need you guys help! I was dead set on picking up a used pocket 6K or even used pcoket G2 for around the same price, but for my work I'd benefit from SDI connections and client perception of the "professional" form factor. Working on a budget.

I don't mind forgoing the added benefits the Pro G1/G2 bring. I've tried the ursa mini G2 as well as the pocket 6k pro on set and came to the conclusion that I'd still rather use my own IRNDs of choice as they would perform better with IR pollution more consistently than the included NDs in those models.

My question is, with everything stated in this thread so far, is it just not worth dealing with the quality control issues, even if I plan to upgrade past it within the next few months? Even for this price? I'm tired of renting for the time being; need something in-house for a massive push of original content to get my company up and going (mostly corporate/commercial with some narrative film work in the mix).

Admittedly I feel as though I should save for something in the sub $2.5-$3k territory. A dream would be to get the EVA-1 used, but I'm content with building with the 6k or 4.6k models until I can afford the likes of a C70/Fx6 in-house.

I come from loving budget cameras that produce meaty CDNG files (original bmpcc, 5D magic lantern etc) so if I was a hobbyist I'd buy just call it a day with the Sigma FP. Operation features like autofocus and the like aren't as desired, but I'm looking for a balance between bang-for-buck image and client-level operation...hope that makes sense?

I'm considered other options, like the fs700/fs5 with recorder too. Not a fan of the C200 image.

Thanks guys!

FS5 isn’t a bad option for 1080p use because it’s 10 bit 422, might be oversampled too. Formfactor gets weird if you use an Atomos recorder for the 4k CDNG or Prores RAW