Panasonic BS1H - box version of the S1H

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

 

 

[IronFilm]

Just read this: https://twitter.com/nokishita_c/status/14451386468860887 and darn, you beat me by a few hours to sharing it!

Yes, I expect the BS1H will be to the S1H, as the BGH1 was to the GH5S. 

If it is priced at US$3.5K (as the tweet I shared hinted at), who'd want to ever buy a Z Cam E2-F6 for US$3995?? I wouldn't. 

I hope/beg it has internal NDs! But I expect to be disappointed. 

[Emanuel]

£2500 (+ specs, etc.) on CVP

[TomTheDP]

13 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Just read this: https://twitter.com/nokishita_c/status/14451386468860887 and darn, you beat me by a few hours to sharing it!

Yes, I expect the BS1H will be to the S1H, as the BGH1 was to the GH5S. 

If it is priced at US$3.5K (as the tweet I shared hinted at), who'd want to ever buy a Z Cam E2-F6 for US$3995?? I wouldn't. 

I hope/beg it has internal NDs! But I expect to be disappointed. 

The Z-cam has 4k 120p that is pretty darn solid as well as the option for electronic ND's and internal Prores HQ 422 at full resolution. 

This has built in SDI which is cool but you can't external record through the SDI so that is a bummer. At least you should be able to get a feed to an external monitor that doesn't have horrendous latency. Is the HDMI implementation here faster though? If it is that would be a big advantage. The HDMI out on both the S1H and Z-cam is very slow. 

Internal ND's would have made this camera a huge win, without them its kind of meh. The only advantage of the lighter weight is for drone use. Once you add a monitor you lose the weight advantage. 

The new Nikon camera will have internal prores RAW. If this had internal RAW and in combination with the SDI out I would buy it. 

[elgabogomez]

Yes it’s lighter… until you add a battery behind and a monitor on top/side. There are a few things that cooled me down from original excitement from “oh! This is my next camera!!!” to “hold on, no ibis? Same price as s1h? No included battery/charger? “

Still nice idea but other than sdi I don’t think it’s a better option than an used S1H.

[newfoundmass]

SDI limited to 1080p is a real bummer. I don't completely understand who this is for, or why they'd want it over the S1H, unless they keep it tethered to a computer. By the time you rig it up and add a lens you will have a bigger camera but no ibis, touch screen, etc. 

[MrSMW]

As an S1H owner, nah.

Still interested to see what a GH6 might bring to the table but the facts of the matter are quite simple to me; needs + wants.

Needs = well, nothing really…

Wants = genuinely smaller & lighter without making sacrifices (such as skipping IBIS or a tilt screen) and quantifiably better AF.

So looking…always looking, but doing nothing until it’s actually worthwhile doing.

Not really sure who this BS camera is for…

Probably not going to tempt existing S1H users and not really going to tempt users of other kit looking for a modular box camera…so who exactly?

But then again, I’m only speaking from my perspective and could be well wide of the mark re. the market for this thing.

[IronFilm]

Wonder why they couldn't they have developed a positive lock mount? Like Sony has for E Mount for their cinema cameras. Or Z Cam has done for Micro Four Thirds.

Unfortunate that the BS1H doesn’t have internal ND filters, is the one thing missing (well, and IBIS....) to tip me over to buying a BS1H/BGH1 vs a GH5S/S1H as my next Panasonic upgrade.

Does the BS1H do full sensor height anamorphic? (does S1H?)

Could there be a Panasonic EVA2 in the works with L Mount? (I always thought the EVA1 should've been MFT Mount! Back then, L Mount didn't exist though)

 

8 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

The Z-cam has 4k 120p that is pretty darn solid as well as the option for electronic ND's and internal Prores HQ 422 at full resolution. 

Their eND doesn't have 0ND which is a massive oversight. 
Z Cam E2-S6 (which is the direct competitor to the Panasonic BS1H) doesn't have 4K 120fps. 
 

8 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

This has built in SDI which is cool but you can't external record through the SDI so that is a bummer.

Yes, have to use the HDMI for the external recording, but at least the external recorder is always on the camera, and you're not doing a long cable run to it like you might with going to a client / director's monitor over SDI. 

One small silver lining is at least you don't need to worry about your AC accidentally frying anything, which would've been the case if they'd included full resolutions options over SDI.

8 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

The only advantage of the lighter weight is for drone use. Once you add a monitor you lose the weight advantage. 

Beneficial for gimbal usage too, as many gimbal ops are adding a monitor anyway. 
Guess it has small benefits elsewhere too, like for a car rig, sure a few grams saved is no big deal, but even a few grams saved still means there are less forces being applied stressing the car rig setup.

 

8 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

The new Nikon camera will have internal prores RAW. If this had internal RAW and in combination with the SDI out I would buy it. 

Ohhhhh..... where did you read this about Nikon??

5 hours ago, elgabogomez said:

Same price as s1h?

Same price as the current street S1H , but lower than the original release RRP of the S1H. 
Bit like the GH5mk2, it got released at a lower price than the GH5 was released at, but same as the current street price. 
Means that I am sure we can see more price drops in the years to come, as it is starting out from a lower price point. 

5 hours ago, elgabogomez said:

Still nice idea but other than sdi I don’t think it’s a better option than an used S1H.

For some people this is a HUGE deal. Especially as it will likely mean you'll get much lower latency than using HDMI. 

4 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Probably not going to tempt existing S1H users and not really going to tempt users of other kit looking for a modular box camera…so who exactly?

Massive application here on film sets. They'll pick a BS1H in a heart beat over an a7 / S1 / EOS R type camera. 
And they'll prefer to trust in the brand name of Panasonic vs a small newcomer such as Blackmagic or Kinefinity. In their eyes, the Sony FX3 might be the closest competitor to the BS1H.

[currensheldon]

I have an S1H and love it. Amazing IQ.

starting from scratch, I’d probably go for the box for modularity and adaptability on gimbals and for looooong run times on cinema batteries. As well as easier mounting and rigging for external monitors/recorders. 

but, it is weird that Panasonic just didn’t call this the S2H or EVA-2 and go full on update - internal NDs, new sensor to give us 4k 120fps, better RS, full-frame slow-mo in 4K or 6k, whatever their new AF will be, etc.  same specs as two years ago while Sony and Canon have been pumping out all the latest tech and numerous bodies  in the same time frame is a bit frustrating. This camera will still have a better image than anything those companies put out under $15k, but there are other considerations too (frame rates, no crop, internal raw, etc). 

I’m guessing that camera will come in a mirrorless body in the next year, but I really would like to have it in this box form factor or something like an FX6.

[IronFilm]

48 minutes ago, currensheldon said:

I’m guessing that camera will come in a mirrorless body in the next year, but I really would like to have it in this box form factor or something like an FX6.

If we think of the S1H as their version of the a7Smk3
And then the BS1H is their version of the FX3. 
That means an EVA2 L Mount would be their version of a FX6?
With a Varicam LT mk2 in the future as well to compete against the FX9?
One can only dream!

 

[Jimmy G]

Pleased to see Panasonic embracing the notion that industry folks need quite a different camera design (read: riggable box) than the indie/consumer folks (read: hand grip and flippy screen and EVF for human usage). My hope is that Panasonic will build on this differentiation and provide the indie/consumer folks with a better (read: perceivably lossless) internal 12-, 14-, 16-bit recording format solution that can be, er, "pushed" around like RAW.

Ideally, I would like to see something along the lines of a cordless/self-connecting battery-grip/NVME-SSD-recorder for their S-, G-, and GH-series cameras for those in need of such bit-depth levels of capture in their next iterations...a seamless (read: cord-free) and stealthy camera+lens+mic solution for, well, human-beings. (And, yes, leave the vestigal HDMI port, lest we make tears well up, for those still convinced they need to give Blackmagic or Atomos their money to get RAW quality results! Haw!)

Now, if the kind folks over at Panasonic will kindly deliver on their year's-long promise for an Organic Sensor (that will negate the need for ND with the use of negative sensor gain) and an ASIC powerful enough that it can handle these needs (kindly put the price tag on it, we will come!) the world can get on with its business of wide-dynamic-range, ambient-light (read:-6 to +22EV) in-camera image capture! F*** cables.

 

That is all, 😉

Jimmy G

[TomTheDP]

20 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Wonder why they couldn't they have developed a positive lock mount? Like Sony has for E Mount for their cinema cameras. Or Z Cam has done for Micro Four Thirds.

Unfortunate that the BS1H doesn’t have internal ND filters, is the one thing missing (well, and IBIS....) to tip me over to buying a BS1H/BGH1 vs a GH5S/S1H as my next Panasonic upgrade.

Does the BS1H do full sensor height anamorphic? (does S1H?)

Could there be a Panasonic EVA2 in the works with L Mount? (I always thought the EVA1 should've been MFT Mount! Back then, L Mount didn't exist though)

 

Their eND doesn't have 0ND which is a massive oversight. 
Z Cam E2-S6 (which is the direct competitor to the Panasonic BS1H) doesn't have 4K 120fps. 
 

Yes, have to use the HDMI for the external recording, but at least the external recorder is always on the camera, and you're not doing a long cable run to it like you might with going to a client / director's monitor over SDI. 

One small silver lining is at least you don't need to worry about your AC accidentally frying anything, which would've been the case if they'd included full resolutions options over SDI.

Beneficial for gimbal usage too, as many gimbal ops are adding a monitor anyway. 
Guess it has small benefits elsewhere too, like for a car rig, sure a few grams saved is no big deal, but even a few grams saved still means there are less forces being applied stressing the car rig setup.

 

Ohhhhh..... where did you read this about Nikon??

Same price as the current street S1H , but lower than the original release RRP of the S1H. 
Bit like the GH5mk2, it got released at a lower price than the GH5 was released at, but same as the current street price. 
Means that I am sure we can see more price drops in the years to come, as it is starting out from a lower price point. 

For some people this is a HUGE deal. Especially as it will likely mean you'll get much lower latency than using HDMI. 

Massive application here on film sets. They'll pick a BS1H in a heart beat over an a7 / S1 / EOS R type camera. 
And they'll prefer to trust in the brand name of Panasonic vs a small newcomer such as Blackmagic or Kinefinity. In their eyes, the Sony FX3 might be the closest competitor to the BS1H.

Google "Nikon z9 8k RAW"

The lack of being able to dial Z-cams ND off is a bummer but at least there is an option. Otherwise you'll have to get a vari ND and deal with the color issues that those provide. The Zcam F6 is the competitor against the BS1H in my opinion. The BS1H is $3500 while the F6 is $4000. The S6 is only $2500 and is also S35. The S6 does 4k 100fps though and crushes all the VFR modes on the S1H and BS1H which are pretty crap IMO. 

The option for SDI out is great but if you are going solo with this camera and shooting prores RAW, pulling focus is a bitch off the slow latency HDMI. Prores internal would be a nice feature to have. 

The BS1H is cool but its more of a specialty rig cam. I am waiting on a full frame EVA1 with hopefully a less chinsey body and 10 stop NDs. 

[TheBoogieKnight]

On 10/8/2021 at 9:29 PM, TomTheDP said:

Google "Nikon z9 8k RAW"

The lack of being able to dial Z-cams ND off is a bummer but at least there is an option. Otherwise you'll have to get a vari ND and deal with the color issues that those provide. The Zcam F6 is the competitor against the BS1H in my opinion. The BS1H is $3500 while the F6 is $4000. The S6 is only $2500 and is also S35. The S6 does 4k 100fps though and crushes all the VFR modes on the S1H and BS1H which are pretty crap IMO. 

The option for SDI out is great but if you are going solo with this camera and shooting prores RAW, pulling focus is a bitch off the slow latency HDMI. Prores internal would be a nice feature to have. 

The BS1H is cool but its more of a specialty rig cam. I am waiting on a full frame EVA1 with hopefully a less chinsey body and 10 stop NDs. 

Do we know the SDI latency with the BS1H? I saw some tests done on the BGH1 and the latency via SDI was identical to HDMI.

[IronFilm]

18 hours ago, TheBoogieKnight said:

I saw some tests done on the BGH1 and the latency via SDI was identical to HDMI.

Can you link to that? I thought from memory its SDI was much lower 

[TheBoogieKnight]

On 10/15/2021 at 3:19 AM, IronFilm said:

Can you link to that? I thought from memory its SDI was much lower 

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4525245#forum-post-65032086

[IronFilm]

I just noticed that the Panasonic BS1H has dropped down in price now to merely US$2.3K:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1664826-REG/panasonic_dc_bs1h_lumix_bs1h_full_frame_box_style.html