Sony A7III hybrid amateur shooter - Seeking upgrade advice

[SRV1981]

I've included a poll.  I am looking to get better video/photos SOOC.  I'm a full-time teacher and don't have the time/space to learn colorgrading or even colorgrade much more than basic adjustments.  I've enjoyed my a7III over my previous XT4.  That said the skin tones and color just don't cut it for me.  Looking for Advice.

 

Canon vs. Sony only ... Panasonic/Fuji autofocus takes them out of the running.

 

Thoughts?

[MrSMW]

Isn't the 4 being announced next week?

I'd wait and see what that brings to the party...

[ntblowz]

Yeah, I think newer cam have better skintone on Sony? So wait til a7 4 come and see.

 

I shot with R5 and colour grading is the least of my time spent on editing. I m not pro on colour grading as well, just put lut on, do some minor adjustment and move on.

[Mark Romero 2]

Firstly, no matter which camera you use, if you "don't have the time/space to learn colorgrading or even colorgrade much more than basic adjustments...", then you need to NAIL your white balance. Maybe the auto white-balance in the Canon or in the Sony is better. Don't know for sure either way.

I know my Panasonic cameras have an easy way to adjust both color temp AND tint for white balance. Does the Sony allow for adjusting tint as well as just temp? How about the Canon?

There are several different custom picture profiles out there, and of course, there are Andrew's various EOSHD color profiles as well. Maybe one of the easiest ways to get pleasing colors straight out of camera is to turn OFF the picture profiles and instead use the Portrait setting in the creative styles. I have done that in the past and it is nice, although I prefer to turn down the saturation, contrast and sharpening, and I accept the fact that it isn't going to have as nice a roll off as shooting in the Cine gammas or in S-LOG.

[kye]

10 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

I've included a poll.  I am looking to get better video/photos SOOC.  I'm a full-time teacher and don't have the time/space to learn colorgrading or even colorgrade much more than basic adjustments.  I've enjoyed my a7III over my previous XT4.  That said the skin tones and color just don't cut it for me.  Looking for Advice.

What NLE are you using for colour grading?

2 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

Firstly, no matter which camera you use, if you "don't have the time/space to learn colorgrading or even colorgrade much more than basic adjustments...", then you need to NAIL your white balance. Maybe the auto white-balance in the Canon or in the Sony is better. Don't know for sure either way.

+1 for getting WB bang-on, and -1 for confidence in auto-WB doing a perfect job in difficult situations.

To be able to correct WB in post requires more powerful tools and more sophisticated methods, but these require greater skill in colour grading and more time and skill required to get them right.

[scotchtape]

I'm using the phantom LUTs now and they're pretty good.

Sometimes you can get a better result if you're willing to do a bit of work, using Resolve color space transform to Arri and using the arri LUT looks pretty good as well.

I also do not like Sony skin tones SOOC, but I do like the results I get from Phantom LUTs or CST to Arri and a bit of tweaking.

YMMV. Check out the Phantom LUTs, I gave it a shot and it works for me!  More or less drag and drop if you have decent WB and exposure.

If you like Canon more just go Canon. I do think if you're only using the SOOC footage and not doing a lot of grading, Canon is probably way easier to work with for skin tones, I just can't deal with the cripple hammer. It's a bit more work on the Sony but you can get them to look amazing as well and close to Arri.

 

[SRV1981]

18 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Isn't the 4 being announced next week?

I'd wait and see what that brings to the party...

100% It's a patient and logical idea - thanks!

 

16 hours ago, ntblowz said:

Yeah, I think newer cam have better skintone on Sony? So wait til a7 4 come and see.

 

I shot with R5 and colour grading is the least of my time spent on editing. I m not pro on colour grading as well, just put lut on, do some minor adjustment and move on.

Yea - i'll see how the color space looks on the a7IV when videos come out in the next few weeks.  The comment on the R5 makes me hopeful.  I really, also, like the idea of being able to use cheaper EF mount lenses with no degradation in quality of image or autofocus.

 

14 hours ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

 

There are several different custom picture profiles out there, and of course, there are Andrew's various EOSHD color profiles as well. Maybe one of the easiest ways to get pleasing colors straight out of camera is to turn OFF the picture profiles and instead use the Portrait setting in the creative styles. I have done that in the past and it is nice, although I prefer to turn down the saturation, contrast and sharpening, and I accept the fact that it isn't going to have as nice a roll off as shooting in the Cine gammas or in S-LOG.

Funny you say that! I don't us a PP and learned that from Kraig Adams and his videos on YouTube (epic travel/hiking videos - 100% must watch!). But when I look at a video from Canon there is just a magical quality that draws me in and those I watch with.  I really want to have that on Sony due to the other factors that make Sony excellent.

 

12 hours ago, kye said:

What NLE are you using for colour grading?

+1 for getting WB bang-on, and -1 for confidence in auto-WB doing a perfect job in difficult situations.

To be able to correct WB in post requires more powerful tools and more sophisticated methods, but these require greater skill in colour grading and more time and skill required to get them right.

NLE - FCP

8 hours ago, scotchtape said:

I'm using the phantom LUTs now and they're pretty good.

Sometimes you can get a better result if you're willing to do a bit of work, using Resolve color space transform to Arri and using the arri LUT looks pretty good as well.

I also do not like Sony skin tones SOOC, but I do like the results I get from Phantom LUTs or CST to Arri and a bit of tweaking.

YMMV. Check out the Phantom LUTs, I gave it a shot and it works for me!  More or less drag and drop if you have decent WB and exposure.

If you like Canon more just go Canon. I do think if you're only using the SOOC footage and not doing a lot of grading, Canon is probably way easier to work with for skin tones, I just can't deal with the cripple hammer. It's a bit more work on the Sony but you can get them to look amazing as well and close to Arri.

 

That's probably true and makes sense, but as I noted - I'm a full-time educator and due this for hobby/work stuff and don't have the time to put a lot of effort - so SOOC is most likely what i'll be able to do with light curve adjustments and then process/edit move-on.  

[kye]

12 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

But when I look at a video from Canon there is just a magical quality that draws me in and those I watch with.

There's a concept that no-one talks about, and that I think is one of the most important things that exists with equipment, which is how using it makes you feel.

We all know the trope about content being more important than image quality, but no-one here talks about the factors that make the content good, and I think that a key factor in that is how we feel while we are filming.  

If we are fighting with the tech then we will be frustrated, less efficient, and generally in a bad mood.  Like when anyone is in a bad mood, this will radiate out to the people you are working with, the people who are around you, and perhaps the people in the frame.  

The opposite picture is also true.  If we are using equipment we love, then we will be upbeat, calm, and will have a positive impact on those around us.  Film-making is art, and art is about creative expression, which comes from a place of emotion.

Obviously, if a camera is fiddly to use and the ergonomics are crap then that's a challenge, but I find that the biggest barrier to feeling good while filming, at least for me, is knowing what kind of images I am creating, and this is all about colour for me, and it sounds like it might be the same for you as well.

Going back to Sony vs Canon, considering that you're using FCP and don't want to learn colour grading, I'd suggest going with the camera with the best colour science that you can justify (ie, it has to work practically with those "other factors" you mentioned).  

Definitely wait for the A74, as Sony colour science is getting significantly better with each generation, but make sure you're looking at footage that is SOOC rather than had a colourist put lots of work into it.

Best of luck, and don't forget that the equipment are just tools to get the outcome you want, and a great experience captured with a lower quality camera will make a much nicer video than a lacklustre experience taken with the best camera in the world, and while filming you're influencing the situation.

[Mark Romero 2]

13 hours ago, kye said:

There's a concept that no-one talks about, and that I think is one of the most important things that exists with equipment, which is how using it makes you feel.

We all know the trope about content being more important than image quality, but no-one here talks about the factors that make the content good, and I think that a key factor in that is how we feel while we are filming.  

If we are fighting with the tech then we will be frustrated, less efficient, and generally in a bad mood.  Like when anyone is in a bad mood, this will radiate out to the people you are working with, the people who are around you, and perhaps the people in the frame.  

The opposite picture is also true.  If we are using equipment we love, then we will be upbeat, calm, and will have a positive impact on those around us.  Film-making is art, and art is about creative expression, which comes from a place of emotion.

Obviously, if a camera is fiddly to use and the ergonomics are crap then that's a challenge, but I find that the biggest barrier to feeling good while filming, at least for me, is knowing what kind of images I am creating, and this is all about colour for me, and it sounds like it might be the same for you as well.

Going back to Sony vs Canon, considering that you're using FCP and don't want to learn colour grading, I'd suggest going with the camera with the best colour science that you can justify (ie, it has to work practically with those "other factors" you mentioned).  

Definitely wait for the A74, as Sony colour science is getting significantly better with each generation, but make sure you're looking at footage that is SOOC rather than had a colourist put lots of work into it.

Best of luck, and don't forget that the equipment are just tools to get the outcome you want, and a great experience captured with a lower quality camera will make a much nicer video than a lacklustre experience taken with the best camera in the world, and while filming you're influencing the situation.

Yes, definitely true. The image out of my Panasonic S1 is noticeably better than out of my m43 Olympus E-M! MK II. But I love using the Oly and I loathe using the S1. 

[SRV1981]

Looks like it's time to sell the A7III body, maybe to KEH.  I'll keep the Tamron 24-70 2.8 lens until I know the Canon R6 is my next move!  Thanks!

[IronFilm]

If you're happy to change lens mount to Canon RF, then why not include more camera options in your list than just two?

Such as Panasonic S5? And if we're waiting on unannounced cameras, why not include the Panasonic GH6 as well. 

[SRV1981]

On 10/17/2021 at 9:57 AM, IronFilm said:

If you're happy to change lens mount to Canon RF, then why not include more camera options in your list than just two?

Such as Panasonic S5? And if we're waiting on unannounced cameras, why not include the Panasonic GH6 as well. 

Sadly the autofocus on those is a non-starter.