Just bought a new camera for 2022 - the small but mighty GX85

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, ac6000cw said:

I own a GX800 (originally acquired because I wanted the 12-32mm pancake lens, and it was almost as cheap to buy it with GX800 bundled in!).

Its a really great little lens, particularly for non-IBIS MFT cameras like the Pocket (particularly the original version for keeping everything small).

The lesser spotted 35-100mm companion that they produce is also worth picking up for the same reasons.

[John Matthews]

10 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

I've never owned a G7, but based on dpreview's video test chart comparisons, the 1080p & 4k sharpness is about the same as the G7. In those comparisons the GX80 is softer at 1080p than the G7. Never tried a GM1, so I can't compare it to that. 

I've seen those charts and I simply wouldn't read too much into them as they usually have the stock settings on their tested cameras. Unfortunately, the stock settings aren't the best settings for detail, rendering those charts useless unless the compared cameras have decent stock settings. In the case of the GX80 (at least in 4k), the stock settings sucked.

10 hours ago, ac6000cw said:

I like small & light cameras (one reason I like micro 4/3), and that was why it took me a least a year after its launch to convince myself I wanted a G9. But for situations where I want the video quality, top-notch IBIS and/or the speed of operation/autofocus (like wildlife photography/video), for me it's well worth carrying around the extra weight and bulk. The GX800 makes a nice small & light companion for 'normal' shots if I've got a long lens on the G9 for wildlife photography.

That sounds like a good combo. I've got a similar situation in that I have an E-M1 ii, a GM1, an E-P7, and a GH2. My idea has always been to have a two-camera setup- one portable, one for all-weather and anything important. In my case, the GH2 is for a live streaming setup and the E-P7 is for pure fun. My GM1 is simply the most portable camera that can handle my M43 lenses.

[PannySVHS]

On 11/8/2021 at 9:49 AM, ac6000cw said:

Of the above list, the G6 is my favourite 1080p-max camera - but the G9 blows all of the above out of the water on 1080p quality (it's GH5 quality level).

 

Same for me, G6 with sharpness on -2 had my favorite HD image. GH5 has pixel perfect HD. G7 has even better HD than G6. I own both of the G7 cameras and have filmed a lot with the GH5, so coming from my own experience. I love my GX85. With lit scenes I love Natural a picture profile, also when grading will be considered. For outside and out of the box for every day use I prefer Vivid. I dial saturation and contrast to +3, sharpness and noise reduction all the way down to -5. GX85 with G6 or G7 HD quality with 100mbit would be fantastic enough for all my private filming.

[kye]

Got back from my trip and the GX85 had arrived!  (In fact, it was delivered about 45 minutes after I left, but all good).

To greet it, all the trendy MFT gear had a welcome party, including:

• GH5
• GF3
• OG BMPCC
• BMMCC
• 7.5mm F2
• 12-35mm F2
• 12.5mm F1.9
• 14mm F2.5
• 14-42mm kit zoom (not really trendy, but came as the BMPCCs +1)
• 15mm F8 (also not really trendy, but came as the BMPCCs +1)
• 17.5mm F0.95
• 42.5mm F0.95
• Helios 58mm F2 on M42 0.71x Speedbooster

An honourable mention that also couldn't attend is the 28mm F2.8 m42 lens I've just ordered as it's still in the UK, but I'm hoping that combined with the M42 SB it will make a great compliment to the Helios.  The FD70-210mm F4 got drunk early, fell over and rolled away - lucky it's tough as nails!

All audio equipment declined, being too finicky and claiming it didn't want to be seen with any "vintage" equipment.  It mumbled something disdainful about poor quality but all I heard was "8-track".

So many great combinations here, but the most notable ones are:

• Standard travel kit: GH5 + 7.5mm + 17.5mm + 42.5mm (FF - 15mm/35mm/85mm)
  Combined with the 1080p 10-bit 24fps and 60fps modes and the 2x digital zoom function, this setup can work pretty quickly and in almost any environment (two days ago I was shooting wide open in a cave in torchlight)
   
• Low-fi pocket setup: GF3 + 14mm (FF - 28mm)
  The only video mode is "auto everything" and so it features very short shutters (which stabilises wonderfully in post), softer image quality (which looks very cinematic!), nicer colours that it has any right to have, and with AFS it's easy to use and was, at one time, the fastest (mirrorless?) AF available.  It's also shooting with a single prime, so comes with all the artistic integrity that that brings.
   
• Most anticipated setup: GX85 + 12.5mm + 28mm/SB + 58mm/SB (FF - 28mm/43mm/90mm)
  Small and not attention-seeking, but a stabilised set of fast vintage primes with nice 4K which can be cropped into in post if required.  It's a very appealing thought to be able to look through the viewfinder and be recording gorgeous, dare I say "cinematic" images, but just look like a happy-snapping touristy dorky-dad.  I should buy a sling bag to keep the lenses in and to sell the whole tourist thing.
   
• Minimalist "nice" setup: GX85 + 7.5mm + 12-35mm (FF - 17mm/26-77mm)
  Small and not attention-seeking, the 12-35 will be very fast to work with and can get almost every shot, and the 7.5mm can get those grand wides when required.  Setup will also be very small, with just GX85 + 12-35mm + wrist-strap, and only 7.5mm lens and a couple of spare batteries in the pockets.  Very streamlined!  Potentially I could put my Tiffen BPM 1/8 on the end as well and get a bit of flaring in there too!

Thinking of camera and lens combos makes me much more excited that it really should 🙂 

[John Matthews]

On 11/6/2021 at 12:43 PM, kye said:

How is the 45-150mm lens?  I've got a Canon FD 70-210/4, but it's older and designed for FF so isn't so sharp, and I'd wondered about getting a longer MFT zoom.  Having OIS on top of IBIS would also be beneficial.   I'm not that fussed about how fast it is as I'm not filming things far away in low light, and with the long focal length even a "slow" lens has good background separation.

So I received the Panasonic 45-150 (newer version) and I can say it's better than the Olympus 40-150 f/4-5.6 if you were wondering. It's better built, comes with a lens hood and has IS... for only 10 grams more... also about the same price on the used market. I have a Sears 70-210 FF lens (Cosina crap maybe?)... it's good for Lomography or "who cares" type shots, but well built. I much prefer the more modern results.

[kye]

10 hours ago, John Matthews said:

So I received the Panasonic 45-150 (newer version) and I can say it's better than the Olympus 40-150 f/4-5.6 if you were wondering. It's better built, comes with a lens hood and has IS... for only 10 grams more... also about the same price on the used market. I have a Sears 70-210 FF lens (Cosina crap maybe?)... it's good for Lomography or "who cares" type shots, but well built. I much prefer the more modern results.

Thanks, that's useful.
The challenge of FF lenses is that the MFT is cropping in so immediately the lenses are at a resolution disadvantage because they're not being used as designed. Then they're aging designs, built to a price, are zooms, and who knows how much degradation might have occurred to specific copies etc. And then we pixel-peep at 4k (or more) resolutions, so it's hardly a fair fight! 

[MrSMW]

I really fancy a GX85 now 🤔

If I was to do it, it would be to replace my Sony ZV1.

But the thing is, the purpose I use the little Sony for is the one thing no Panny camera has and that is exceptional AF 🤪

Damn, I guess I can't do it then...

[John Matthews]

Just have both. You can find a GX80 for $250 on the used market.

IMO, AF is really important for Youtubers (and even then it's debatable). Sure, technologically speaking, it's great, but you're going to still have limitations with it. I think it's better to work around known limitations than hoping for AF to work (yes, even on Sony cameras).

[MrSMW]

Specific use case for me John with trustworthy AF a must.

I would rather it was not a Sony but I can’t find another camera that exists that meets my specific need which is as a faultless (or as near as) 4K 25p, unlimited recording limit, powered off a power bank, that sits on the hotshoe of the main camera as backup.

The ZV1 is ridiculously good in that capacity.

As you say, something like the GX85 I’d need to work around…and that would defeat the point of it’s specific purpose as a tool for my needs!

But as a personal/fun camera, I’m still debating that one…

I tried and did not like the ZV1 for anything but the role I purchased it for.

Heart says either a GX85 with fast prime or X100V.

Head says in 2022, trade the iPhone 8 for something better.

I suspect the head is going to win this one…

[John Matthews]

12 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

Specific use case for me John with trustworthy AF a must.

I would rather it was not a Sony but I can’t find another camera that exists that meets my specific need which is as a faultless (or as near as) 4K 25p, unlimited recording limit, powered off a power bank, that sits on the hotshoe of the main camera as backup.

The ZV1 is ridiculously good in that capacity.

As you say, something like the GX85 I’d need to work around…and that would defeat the point of it’s specific purpose as a tool for my needs!

But as a personal/fun camera, I’m still debating that one…

I tried and did not like the ZV1 for anything but the role I purchased it for.

Heart says either a GX85 with fast prime or X100V.

Head says in 2022, trade the iPhone 8 for something better.

I suspect the head is going to win this one…

If you'd like PDAF in M43 land with similar size and weight as a GX80, the only thing is the Olympus E-M5 iii, but you'd need to pay about 650 to 750 euros on the used market. I don't know the ZV1, but my guess would be the IBIS isn't as good, but AF performance would be similar.

[MrSMW]

I had the MKii version and really liked that.

I still have thoughts sometimes about EM1iii’s as an entire system, but coming from Fuji APSC to Panny FF and S1R with 47mp, the reality is I could only go ‘back’ as far as APSC.

My use case doesn’t need IBIS which is another reason why the ZV1 works so well as it’s hot shoe mounted on an S1H which itself is on a tripod!

The ZV1 is simply pulling real time back up duty for insurance purposes during wedding ceremonies and speeches should the S1H pack in or something.

Actually, from the last 2 weddings, I’ve actually used the ZV1 footage instead of the S1H capture.

For this aspect of what I do, I am actually contemplating just doing this all the time as after all, it’s the same sensor as the camcorder I was using for the last 5+ years…

But then the ‘insurance’ ceases to exist…

[kye]

First light, and thought I'd go old-school:

I've managed to set it up relatively similarly to my GH5, which is awesome.

Two questions:

1. Is there any way to set the shutter button to record video instead of take a still while in C mode?
2. I've set the rear dial to be exposure compensation, which only works while not recording - any way around this?

Initial impressions are actually pretty awesome.  Obviously it's not a GH5, but it still feels very capable, and the IBIS is quite impressive.

A couple of 4K frame grabs from the Cosmicar (wide open):

and flaring:

Obviously I'll have to crop into the image a bit in post, but totally fine for a 1080p timeline (and would be fine for a 4K timeline too - just add a touch of sharpening).

......and then the Helios with Speedbooster:

Screen grabs (also wide open):

Flaring:

[ac6000cw]

11 hours ago, kye said:

• Is there any way to set the shutter button to record video instead of take a still while in C mode?

Not that I know of in a general sense. AFAIK the record and shutter buttons can't be re-assigned/programmed, only the 'function buttons'.

'4k photo' mode uses the shutter button, but that's limited to 4k at 30p only.

[dgvro]

if they had only put that fantastic (& tilting) EVF from the GX8 into the GX9, or even just put better IBIS in the GX8, it would have been beating out other Pana rangefinders as an allrounder for years

[kye]

The more I use the GX85, the more I like it.  I've taken it out with the 12-35/2.8 a couple of times now, including a street festival on the weekend where I got a bunch of shots of a friends kids running around non-stop, and the camera and lens kept up, even at F2.8 the whole time.

Some beach visit sample images from the 12-35mm F2.8 (probably wide open)..

and the festival outing, also 12-35mm f2.8 wide open, but this includes some shots using the 2X zoom mode too..

and a couple from an outing with the Cosmicar 12.5mm F1.9 wide open (and cropping into the image)...

The 12-35mm images are almost SOOC using the Natural profile (I hadn't put Cine-D on yet), just with some slight tweaks in post, but the Cosmicar ones above have been graded under a Kodak 250D / 2393 emulation process, which did surprisingly little to the colour actually.

The more I use the 12-35mm the more I appreciate a zoom lens for just getting shot after shot in fast situations, which is pretty much the key to having lots of options in the edit and keeping an edit fresh with lots of different types and compositions of shots.

I'd really like a longer lens as I got quite a few shots at 35mm with the 2X engaged, so I'm contemplating the 12-60mm F2.8-4 which seems to be a good match from the reviews I've seen.  Curious to hear others thoughts on this.

I found the Cosmicar a little challenging to work with as I composed for the screen and was then surprised in post with how much crop I needed to apply, so had a few shots where I was chopping peoples heads off etc.  I've ordered a cheap 28mm F2.8 m42 lens to go with my m42 speed booster, which will give a 43mm FOV, which is a little tighter than the 12.5mm Cosmicar which gives about a 35mm FOV once you crop into the image circle.  

I'll have to see how I go with it.  I'll need a 22mm lens on the SB to give a 35mm FOV and those aren't super common in m42 mount!  The alternative is my 17.5mm Voigtlander which is 38mm on the GX85 but isn't exactly vintage, so I'd have to look more seriously into filters to get similar flare characteristics (which is the part I love about vintage lenses).

The stabilisation is really good, and in combination with the 12-35 is just spectacular, and my regular camera is a GH5 so I'm guessing I'm not easily impressed.  It really makes me feel like shooting.  Great stuff!

[BTM_Pix]

6 hours ago, kye said:

I'm contemplating the 12-60mm F2.8-4 which seems to be a good match from the reviews I've seen.  Curious to hear others thoughts on this.

Its not a lens that many people (including myself) have regretted buying.

Best to consider it as a constant f4 though, partially for convenience of exposure, but also because it doesn't stay f2.8 for long in the zoom range.

Very convenient all rounder but would I have bought it if I had the 12-35mm f2.8 ?

Maybe not for me personally as the 24-70mm equivalent range is ideal for me and if I want to go beyond 70mm then I would prefer to go a bit beyond the 120mm equivalent and have a faster option too.

So I would be looking at something like the Olympus 75mm f1.8 to supplement the 12-35mm and also benefit from the constant and faster apertue versus the 12-60mm.

If you're shooting in a situation where you can't spare the time to change lenses though then, as I say, the 12-60mm is not something you'll regret having in that role.

[stoneinapond]

The Panasonic GX85 with the 12-60 f/2.8-4 is a wonderful combination, both for photography and video. I've had the combo since they both came out and have yet to be disappointed by the results.

[PannySVHS]

@kye, darn, these beach colors of yours are awesome. Looks like from higher end cam. i love mine with my fuji 12mm cmount but always need to grade it. maybe its, because i always dial the color temp in manually and dont do white balance. how did you do it? cheers

 

[kye]

15 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

@kye, darn, these beach colors of yours are awesome. Looks like from higher end cam. i love mine with my fuji 12mm cmount but always need to grade it. maybe its, because i always dial the color temp in manually and dont do white balance. how did you do it? cheers

Those shots were Natural profile, unmodified, and with a curve to bring the highlights down and have a little highlight rolloff, and the saturation boosted to about 107%.  Here's the curve:

The challenge is that when you have a curve to clipping, your waveform looks like this:

Which means that for that whole area where the red is clipping the colours shift to yellow, like this:

BUT, somehow the red channel has extra info that is recoverable (IIRC this isn't the first time I've seen colour information above 100%) so if you pull it down a little then you get this:

and this waveform:

There are still some rather odd things happening to those red levels in the parts we recovered, but they do give an interesting hue to the areas just before clipping.

Not sure if that helps?

I've found it relatively easy to get great sunset shots with almost any camera, so either it's the colour rendition of the cameras I happen to have chosen (possible - Panasonic is no slouch) or it could be the lighting here.

In other news, I have an old Yashica Auto Yashicor 28mm f2.8 m42 lens that I bought super cheaply as it had damaged front coatings and I've been searching for a vintage walk-around lens for the GX85.  I had put it in the discard box due to it's terrible IQ wide-open but it turns out that stopping it down a stop (or half a stop) cleans up the image almost completely, so I took it for a test drive and I think I might be sold on it!

GX85 + Yashica 28/2.8 + SB + Natural profile SOOC ungraded.

Once again, filming in golden hour is probably making this lens look way better than it should look.

I have plans to start exploring the colour profiles and colour performance of the GX85 soon, so will report back on what I find.

[kye]

15 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

@kye, darn, these beach colors of yours are awesome. Looks like from higher end cam. i love mine with my fuji 12mm cmount but always need to grade it. maybe its, because i always dial the color temp in manually and dont do white balance. how did you do it? cheers

Oh yeah, and I always have AWB on.  My rationale is that I'm always wandering between different lighting conditions and cameras now are pretty smart about things, so regardless of if I was doing WB manually or AWB I'd have to adjust it in post anyway, so I may as well just use AWB because it's more likely to get it in the ballpark, which helps when not shooting RAW to get it as close as you can in-camera.

Having said that though, I don't recall having to adjust this camera yet, so it seems good.