Canon 5D Mark III hacked - Magic Lantern on way

[Andrew Reid]

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[img]http://www.eoshd.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/5d3-magic-lantern-hack.jpeg[/img]

Above: a Magic Lantern test running on a real living 5D Mark III in the wild

Initial tests by Alex and the team at Magic Lantern show the hack will work with the 5D Mark III. Canon recently posted an updated firmware for the camera, allowing the file to be analysed and it seems Magic Lantern can be ported to the new camera.

[url="http://www.eoshd.com/content/7992/canon-5d-mark-iii-hacked-magic-lantern-on-the-way/"]Read full article[/url]

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[sandro]

if they can improve the resolution it will be a deal breaker. I doubt Canon was so stupid to limit the resolution via software though

[jlev23]

if it cant do 1080 60p, please give us the even more useful 48p! or 40p, or 36p! something higher then 30 at 1080 :)
i cant wait to see what they do. maybe give us an Mpeg/pro res compression instead of h264?

[TC]

[quote author=sandro link=topic=649.msg4782#msg4782 date=1335535477]
I doubt Canon was so stupid to limit the resolution via software though
[/quote]

I fear you over-estimate the intelligence of the-powers-that-be at Canon.  Amazing engineers, but it is run like most big Japanese companies - by an elite group of old men stuck in the past and completely out of touch with reality.

Anyway, back to the subject of this article - Magic Lantern.  Fantastic news!  I think we all know the firmware is the main limiting factor in the 5D III's performance.  I haven't ordered yet and have been a vocal critic on these forums, but if it can be hacked to give a higher bitrate, I'm ready to buy.

[jlev23]

[quote author=TC link=topic=649.msg4784#msg4784 date=1335537340]
[quote author=sandro link=topic=649.msg4782#msg4782 date=1335535477]
I doubt Canon was so stupid to limit the resolution via software though
[/quote]

I fear you over-estimate the intelligence of the-powers-that-be at Canon.  Amazing engineers, but it is run like most big Japanese companies - by an elite group of old men stuck in the past and completely out of touch with reality.

Anyway, back to the subject of this article - Magic Lantern.  Fantastic news!  I think we all know the firmware is the main limiting factor in the 5D III's performance.  I haven't ordered yet and have been a vocal critic on these forums, but if it can be hacked to give a higher bitrate, I'm ready to buy.
[/quote]
higher bit rate then 90+?? thats not the problem...and you havent got the camera yet and have been a vocal critic? thats the main problem us real owners have with this forum, im starting to think you need to enter your cameras serial number to post!

[jlev23]

[quote author=TC link=topic=649.msg4786#msg4786 date=1335538502]
[quote author=jlev23 link=topic=649.msg4785#msg4785 date=1335538072]
thats the main problem us real owners have with this forum, im starting to think you need to enter your cameras serial number to post!
[/quote]

What?  Only 5D Mark III owners should be allowed to post here?
[/quote]
no, but people that vocally criticize a certain camera should at least of used the camera first. maybe i misunderstood you, i think you were saying you vocally critique the 5D but are still deciding to buy one.

[Giovanni Bertani]

Again... We should no draw conclusions without seeing what they can actually achieve. I hope that the hack will do something similar to GH2.

Same as Black Magic Cinema Camera we need real world tests to on a production model to see what is capable. To early to nominate it as "The future".

[jlev23]

POLL (hopefully the Magic Lantern guys read this!!!)

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=6136.0

[HurtinMinorKey]

[quote author=sandro link=topic=649.msg4782#msg4782 date=1335535477]
if they can improve the resolution it will be a deal breaker. I doubt Canon was so stupid to limit the resolution via software though
[/quote]

It's actually a subtle way to differentiate products. Pay a lot less for virtually the same capability(as a more expensive product), but loose your warranty.  So maybe Canon isn't that stupid after all.

[ZigFilm]

Just wondering...  How long do you think it will take for Magic Lantern to come out with a hacked firmware?  I am in the market to buy a camera and was almost ready to but the FS100 but may wait to see what comes out of the hack....

Thanks!

[gene_can_sing]

This is great, except I'm not really sure that ML can fix the really soft resolution of the 5D3. That's the big deal breaker for me.

Even though the chunk of change that I have saved up is probably going to the soon to be released Sony FS700 since it's far superior to anything Canon video is offering, especially for the price; I will probably donate to ML just because they are doing great things.

If Magic Lantern can 1) Increase the resolution on the video 2) offer clean HDMI out 3) Can over-crank to at least 60fps at 1080p (hopefully 120fps at 1080p since Sony has raised the bar so high at 480 fps at 1080p); then Canon might retain me as a customer, otherwise, Sony it is.

It's kind of sad that Canon video has fallen to such a low that they have to depend on a group hackers to save their dwindling customer base who are flocking to the much better alternatives offered by Sony, Black Magic and even the Nikon D800 has some huge advantages over the 5D3 like higher resolution, clean HDMI and crop modes; and that camera is $400 less. WTF Canon.

Anyways, go Magic Lantern. You guys rule.

In response to jlev23's comment about only real owners of the 5D3 should be allowed to complain. Well, the reason why there is so much complaining again Canon and why many people have not bought the 5D3 is because the the 5D3 in it's current offering is extremely crippled and not really worth $3500 IMO. Look at the Sony FS700, it's has some amazing specs and some really great footage on the internet, and everyone is singing the praises of Sony, kind of like people did when the 5D2 came out 4 years ago.

And I know the 5D3 is about half the price of the FS700. But if Canon offered even something close to the FS700 for double of the price of the 5D3, I would have gladly bought it since I own some good L glass. But the only thing even remotely close to the FS700 is the 1D-C, which is pretty much a joke for $15K.

Meanwhile, Canon is getting bashed to death because their latest video offerings are so over priced and underspec'd it's ridiculous.

Moral of the story, if you plan great products (like the Sony FS-700 and Black Magic) people will sing your praises. If you release underwhelming and overpriced products like Canon, people will bash you. It's as simple as that.

[jlev23]

[quote author=gene_can_sing link=topic=649.msg4793#msg4793 date=1335548580]
This is great, except I'm not really sure that ML can fix the really soft resolution of the 5D3. That's the big deal breaker for me.

Even though the chunk of change that I have saved up is probably going to the soon to be released Sony FS700 since it's far superior to anything Canon video is offering, especially for the price; I will probably donate to ML just because they are doing great things.

If Magic Lantern can 1) Increase the resolution on the video 2) offer clean HDMI out 3) Can over-crank to at least 60fps at 1080p (hopefully 120fps at 1080p since Sony has raised the bar so high at 480 fps at 1080p); then Canon might retain me as a customer, otherwise, Sony it is.

It's kind of sad that Canon video has fallen to such a low that they have to depend on a group hackers to save their dwindling customer base who are flocking to the much better alternatives offered by Sony, Black Magic and even the Nikon D800 has some huge advantages over the 5D3 like higher resolution, clean HDMI and crop modes; and that camera is $400 less. WTF Canon.

Anyways, go Magic Lantern. You guys rule.

In response to jlev23's comment about only real owners of the 5D3 should be allowed to complain. Well, the reason why there is so much complaining again Canon and why many people have not bought the 5D3 is because the the 5D3 in it's current offering is extremely crippled and not really worth $3500 IMO. Look at the Sony FS700, it's has some amazing specs and some really great footage on the internet, and everyone is singing the praises of Sony, kind of like people did when the 5D2 came out 4 years ago.

And I know the 5D3 is about half the price of the FS700. But if Canon offered even something close to the FS700 for double of the price of the 5D3, I would have gladly bought it since I own some good L glass. But the only thing even remotely close to the FS700 is the 1D-C, which is pretty much a joke for $15K.

Meanwhile, Canon is getting bashed to death because their latest video offerings are so over priced and underspec'd it's ridiculous.

Moral of the story, if you plan great products (like the Sony FS-700 and Black Magic) people will sing your praises. If you release underwhelming and overpriced products like Canon, people will bash you. It's as simple as that.
[/quote]
im sorry, i said critique not complain, he mentioned being a critic.
also i think its hard to compare cameras in a completely different price range, anything over a few $1000 is mostly a rental item for me, but in my mind i cant say that a $3500 camera should be as good as this $7000 camera, thats not even out yet! the 1DC is definitely going to have its market for films meant to be on the big screen and commercial shoots, especially for vfx. most of my clients insist on 4k for all of those so they can reframe the elements in post. thats why RED has cornered that market, but canon will for sure dip into it with the 1DC, and its about $50k less then the EPIC!

[gene_can_sing]

jlev23,  I definitely will feel the pain of the FS700 being 2x as much. But the thing is, I think there are a number of people who have saved money and were willing to pay 2x more for a better 5D3 oriented towards video in the $8K price range. But Canon completely under delivered in all aspects and left many people (myself included) hanging. It was either get a very crippled camera for $3.5K or cough up $15K for the next step up. Too drastic of a leap.

As for the Sony FS700 not being out yet. Yes, that's true, but Sony did the RIGHT thing by having numerous people test the FS700 and there a lot of videos shot by the camera on the web, and it's not even suppose to come out for another 2 months. Everyone knows it's going to be good because the proof is already out in the form of numerous tests videos and testimonials from many shooters who have used it.

Canon, with the 5D3, kept the video completely under wraps. Nobody saw hardly any 5D3 video and hardly anyone used one until it basically came to market. Canon obviously had a lot to hide with the 5D3, yet they were happy to take your pre-order.

Canon is doing bad business IMO.

But yeah, more power to Magic Lantern. Those guys are AMAZING.

[jlev23]

[quote author=gene_can_sing link=topic=649.msg4796#msg4796 date=1335552847]
jlev23,  I definitely will feel the pain of the FS700 being 2x as much. But the thing is, I think there are a number of people who have saved money and were willing to pay 2x more for a better 5D3 oriented towards video in the $8K price range. But Canon completely under delivered in all aspects and left many people (myself included) hanging. It was either get a very crippled camera for $3.5K or cough up $15K for the next step up. Too drastic of a leap.

As for the Sony FS700 not being out yet. Yes, that's true, but Sony did the RIGHT thing by having numerous people test the FS700 and there a lot of videos shot by the camera on the web, and it's not even suppose to come out for another 2 months. Everyone knows it's going to be good because the proof is already out in the form of numerous tests videos and testimonials from many shooters who have used it.

Canon, with the 5D3, kept the video completely under wraps. Nobody saw hardly any 5D3 video and hardly anyone used one until it basically came to market. Canon obviously had a lot to hide with the 5D3, yet they were happy to take your pre-order.

Canon is doing bad business IMO.

But yeah, more power to Magic Lantern. Those guys are AMAZING.
[/quote]
i agree, but what i meant by it not being out is that you cant have it now! ive had my 5dmk3 for a month now and shot 3 jobs on it already, one more and ill have the return on my money already. i actually shoot on sony f35s, well used too, before the epic. the sonys had the best keying ability for green screen and vfx, the only problem is that they never looked filmic to me. when i was forced to use one for entire shoots, vfx and some lifestyle, i would wind up diffusing the hell out of them to make people look good. for this reason they just arent used that much anymore. it gave me another reason not to invest in high priced equipment, you just never know whats around the corner and productions want to rent the cheapest alternative these days. so i can see the fs700 being a great tool, its just if you buy one, are you going to regret it once, lets say they hack the 5dmk3 and get clean hdmi out, or if next year there will be a fs800! for the commercial world i live in, its either an alexa or an epic, or if its low budget then "5D" is actually written into the treatment, "this is a 5D job"...when this is the case, there is no changing it, its decided on the client/agency level, even if i say i can get an alexa for the same price...  i guess its had to invest these days, i just know you have to jump on something quick to be able to make your money back, otherwise, just rent whatever is best for the project.

[bradleyg5]

great news, basically unbelievable that Canon didn't copy magic zoom and the zebra stripes implementation of ML. If they can get the full software package the 5dII has running on the 5dIII that will easily be the best large format camera on the market.

[gene_can_sing]

I agree with you jlev23 on the rental thing. The studio I work at does a lot of VFX / compositing type spots. We have a large, production level green screen where we want to have a camera in house for that, amongst other things. We've rented REDs on previous green screen jobs.

I think the 5D3 would have been a good all around camera if it was a bit more enabled, and I would have gladly paid 2x as much for it if it were. My main concern is just that I'm not sure if ML can up the resolution, and it will be doomed to being a "soft" camera for it's entire existence, which would be terrible for the green screen that we have.

The FS700 with it's super slow motion rates, HDMI clean and 4K RAW upgrade will future proof it for a while, unlike the C300 which is going to be obsolete pretty quickly, if not already, IMO.

The only thing better that I can see than the FS700, is if it were in a smaller 5D3 style body.

After feeling the liberation of the DSLR format, it's going to suck to go back to the lunch box camcorder format :( But I guess there no such thing as a perfect camera, yet. And with Canon's track record, we might be waiting forever for something like that.

Believe me, I really, really wanted the 5D3 especially since I have a small fortune in Canon lenses; but as a company, they just keep failing over and over.

[jlev23]

[quote author=gene_can_sing link=topic=649.msg4800#msg4800 date=1335557339]
I agree with you jlev23 on the rental thing. The studio I work at does a lot of VFX / compositing type spots. We have a large, production level green screen where we want to have a camera in house for that, amongst other things. We've rented REDs on previous green screen jobs.

I think the 5D3 would have been a good all around camera if it was a bit more enabled, and I would have gladly paid 2x as much for it if it were. My main concern is just that I'm not sure if ML can up the resolution, and it will be doomed to being a "soft" camera for it's entire existence, which would be terrible for the green screen that we have.

The FS700 with it's super slow motion rates, HDMI clean and 4K RAW upgrade will future proof it for a while, unlike the C300 which is going to be obsolete pretty quickly, if not already, IMO.

The only thing better that I can see than the FS700, is if it were in a smaller 5D3 style body.

After feeling the liberation of the DSLR format, it's going to suck to go back to the lunch box camcorder format :( But I guess there no such thing as a perfect camera, yet. And with Canon's track record, we might be waiting forever for something like that.

Believe me, I really, really wanted the 5D3 especially since I have a small fortune in Canon lenses; but as a company, they just keep failing over and over.
[/quote]
i have to say that the black magic design camera might be good for what you are doing too, it will take all your canon glass, its affordable and i think the sensor size is great for green screen since you want a large depth of field for the cleanest keying. what bothers me with the sony is how much you have to add on to get all those capabilities, im afraid of the massive cost involved.
i actually did a green screen test for a big vfx company while shooting the epic, i shot a fuzzy breakdancing teddy bear(haha) with the 5dmk3 and the compositor was impressed.
though even shane hurlbut says its the compression canon has that makes the footage so cinematic and pleasing. this is the softness that people refer too, for shooting lifestyle i love the new look. i mixed it with an alexa last week and the colorist was also impressed with how much better it matches alexa footage now when he used to have the soften 5D footage to make it work and not stick out like a sore thumb... anyway, good luck and lets see what these guys can do with the hack!

[gene_can_sing]

Thanks for the good suggestions jlev23. I will definitely give it 2 months until the FS700 comes out. Who knows, maybe Alex will work a miracle with the 5D3 in that time. The ML guys are amazing. And then I will save a couple thousand bucks which is nice.

I really do love the Canon look overall, and the DSLRs are so fun to work with just because they're small. It's hard to give that up for sure.

As for the BM, that probably is a great green screen camera with 2.5K RAW and super 16mm with deep DOF. I might just suggest that to the owner of the studio that I work at the most.

[whizz]

I've spent my whole working life, 25 years as a DOP trying to soften video to look like film and now look at the stick Peter Jackson's Hobbit footage has attracted, 'looks like super 70's video'. Resolution isn't everything, we have trained ourselves to accept the 35mm film image is the bench mark at which we have to aim for. Canon hasn't softened the image they just haven't over enhanced it building in noise and other unwanted artifacts, leaving us to sharpen it in post. The heavy AA filter doesn't help but that' a cheap way out of the moire problem. Give me clean uncompressed HDMI out and I'll be a happy boy. Dollars and well wishes going to the ML team.

[matt2491]

Oh my yes! MAGIC LANTERN WOOHOO