Canon R3 6K raw light with FD lenses

[Simon Young]

Some really beautiful footage here from the R3. Will be interesting to see how Nikon's own raw files will compare.

Thoughts on the camera by the guy who shot the video:

No, this camera will not replace any dedicated video camera. The lack of proper video assist tools like built in ND, no false colour, waveform etc means that you do need to carry extra accessories to make it work. I also found the IBIS on this camera to be disappointing. Even inputting the correct focal length in IBIS resulted in shaky footage. You also can't use zebras and focus peaking at the same time which resulted in me missing focus for the last shot :(. This is still a hybrid camera with stills in mind. Quick test in 1080 also show extremely soft images. I would not recommend shooting 1080 in this camera at all unless it's for simple jobs or for fun.

That being said, the 6k on this is... beautiful. My computer can't handle the 6k at all but the final file is gorgeous. I do find the shadows to be much noisier than my C70. Dynamic range is very pleasing and it's quite hard to completely blow out highlights unless you make a mistake or are in extreme situations (like the shot in the bus). The Canon FD primes worked wonders softening the digital edge on the sensor giving it a much more organic look. Files are detailed and rich. The raw is also very capable of making drastic white balance changes without destroying the image. Very happy with the results albeit was a pain for storage and editing.

[Video Hummus]

If canon released an improved C70 styled FF DGO camera they would do very well for themselves. Especially if it is priced somewhat competitively and not $10,000.

[kye]

On 11/21/2021 at 4:18 PM, Simon Young said:

Some really beautiful footage here from the R3.

Looks great, but looks just like Magic Lantern on the 5D, only with a higher resolution / less cinematic image.  You could downscale, but it's a small bump for a large price increase.

On 11/21/2021 at 4:18 PM, Simon Young said:

You also can't use zebras and focus peaking at the same time which resulted in me missing focus for the last shot 😞

IIRC my new GX85 gives you zebras, focus peaking and waveform at the same time.  For $600, which includes two lenses. and it's not a dedicated video camera either.

LOL.  Canon.

[Marcio Kabke Pinheiro]

5 hours ago, kye said:

IIRC my new GX85 gives you zebras, focus peaking and waveform at the same time.  For $600, which includes two lenses. and it's not a dedicated video camera either.

LOL.  Canon.

For waveform, I guess that you mean histogram. 🙂

[kye]

6 hours ago, Marcio Kabke Pinheiro said:

For waveform, I guess that you mean histogram. 🙂

Oh yeah..  I guess I was so amused by the USD$6,000 R3 that while not rendering me completely speechless, it did befuddle me significantly!  Getting smacked in the face with the Canon Cripple Hammer is likely to leave you significantly dazed....

[The Dancing Babamef]

Well, at least Jordan Drake from DPReview didn't grade these, the shots look exquisite!

[BenEricson]

On 11/21/2021 at 7:01 PM, Video Hummus said:

If canon released an improved C70 styled FF DGO camera they would do very well for themselves. Especially if it is priced somewhat competitively and not $10,000.

Pretty sure they’re doing fine! They also make a speed booster which makes the C70 exactly that.

I own the C70. The “DGO” sensor is kind of over hyped. My image is very very close to the 6 year old C300 Mk2. Of course the C300 is a much better camera ergonomically.

The best features are the improved AF, 160mbps 4K, false color, 4k 60p, smaller size. Everything else is very very similar.

IMO all of the Canon images look really similar, for better or for worse. Id be surprised if anyone can truly tell the difference between this and the C70. The bright bright highlights (the sun,) always give it away. Red or Arri does better.

[Video Hummus]

1 hour ago, BenEricson said:

Red or Arri does better.

I would hope a $30K-$60K camera would have a better image.

Canon are rumored to have newer FF DGO sensors coming with improved dynamic range. Will be great to see FF, DGO, canon AF come together in a more compact camera like the size of a C70. 

1 hour ago, BenEricson said:

They also make a speed booster which makes the C70 exactly that.

With a fairly substantial reduced AF area. Kind of a bummer in my opinion.

[BenEricson]

13 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

I would hope a $30K-$60K camera would have a better image.

Komodo. Requires work arounds but the image is better than the 15k C500ii. Different cameras tho.

[TomTheDP]

18 hours ago, BenEricson said:

Pretty sure they’re doing fine! They also make a speed booster which makes the C70 exactly that.

I own the C70. The “DGO” sensor is kind of over hyped. My image is very very close to the 6 year old C300 Mk2. Of course the C300 is a much better camera ergonomically.

The best features are the improved AF, 160mbps 4K, false color, 4k 60p, smaller size. Everything else is very very similar.

IMO all of the Canon images look really similar, for better or for worse. Id be surprised if anyone can truly tell the difference between this and the C70. The bright bright highlights (the sun,) always give it away. Red or Arri does better.

I am sure if you put them back to back in a very high dynamic range situation you'd see a difference.

My biggest issue on the C300 MK2 is the weird banding artifact you get in some high contrast situations. I was shocked to see this was a normal problem on the camera.

 

3 hours ago, BenEricson said:

Komodo. Requires work arounds but the image is better than the 15k C500ii. Different cameras tho.

If you discount low light performance maybe. The C500 mk2 has a lot going for it honestly, its just an easy camera. I do love the komodo though.

[Django]

20 hours ago, BenEricson said:

Pretty sure they’re doing fine! They also make a speed booster which makes the C70 exactly that.

I own the C70. The “DGO” sensor is kind of over hyped. My image is very very close to the 6 year old C300 Mk2. Of course the C300 is a much better camera ergonomically.

The best features are the improved AF, 160mbps 4K, false color, 4k 60p, smaller size. Everything else is very very similar.

IMO all of the Canon images look really similar, for better or for worse. Id be surprised if anyone can truly tell the difference between this and the C70. The bright bright highlights (the sun,) always give it away. Red or Arri does better.

Interesting, I'm actually hesitating in between a C70 & a used C300 mk2. 

They're about the same price. 

Could you expand on why you find the C300 much better ergonomically? I always thought that tall form factor with the clamshell display & XLRS on top was poorly regarded. 

The more compact DSLR form of the C70 seems more versatile while still maintaining the side buttons etc?

The RF mount with the speed booster is also a big advantage. How do you find the FF IQ with it? I heard the speed booster holds up much better than Metabones on EF glass IQ wise.

The only drawback I can think of on the C70 is the SD cards. I hate SDs. They always crap out.

Oh and the C300 mk2 has that 12-bit 444 2K option which has got to give the best colours after RAW.

The R3 looks awesome but has all the caveats of hybrids.

Btw, can you magnify while recording on C70?

[Django]

Also I just realised C70 has anamorphic support & de squeeze (1.3x & 2x) meaning its compatible with the affordable SIRUI 1.33x lenses now available in RF mount. I think that seals the deal for me on the C70!

[BenEricson]

5 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

I am sure if you put them back to back in a very high dynamic range situation you'd see a difference.

My biggest issue on the C300 MK2 is the weird banding artifact you get in some high contrast situations. I was shocked to see this was a normal problem on the camera.

If you discount low light performance maybe. The C500 mk2 has a lot going for it honestly, its just an easy camera. I do love the komodo though.

This is true. The noise issue in extreme situations on the C300 Mkii can be really bad. You can avoid by shooting at ISO 500 and avoid C-LOG 2 in those types of situations.

You're right, the C500 Mkii is an incredible work horse camera. It's disappointing that there is no light weight 6k codec.

My point was that the C300 Mk2 and the C70 are not worlds apart. In 95 percent of situations, they will look nearly identical. 

I was also disappointed that they removed a lot of the picture profiles in the C70. A lot of the baked in profiles that I had used in the past, (rarely,) have been removed. There is no Cinema EOS Original, no BT.709 in Clog2, they also removed the 12 bit 444 2k codec.

Interesting enough, when I compared both cameras in the Wide DR codec, there was more noise on the C70 than the C300Mkii in ISOs over 1600. I kind of expected the opposite. 

https://vimeo.com/543915327/c8c6ad9ce9

I guess my main point was that the Komodo clearly has a significant leap in quality (to my eyes.) The C500ii, C70, and C300iii all kind of look similar.

4 hours ago, Django said:

Interesting, I'm actually hesitating in between a C70 & a used C300 mk2. 

They're about the same price. 

Could you expand on why you find the C300 much better ergonomically? I always thought that tall form factor with the clamshell display & XLRS on top was poorly regarded. 

The more compact DSLR form of the C70 seems more versatile while still maintaining the side buttons etc?

The RF mount with the speed booster is also a big advantage. How do you find the FF IQ with it? I heard the speed booster holds up much better than Metabones on EF glass IQ wise.

The only drawback I can think of on the C70 is the SD cards. I hate SDs. They always crap out.

Oh and the C300 mk2 has that 12-bit 444 2K option which has got to give the best colours after RAW.

The R3 looks awesome but has all the caveats of hybrids.

Btw, can you magnify while recording on C70?

2 hours ago, Django said:

Also I just realised C70 has anamorphic support & de squeeze (1.3x & 2x) meaning its compatible with the affordable SIRUI 1.33x lenses now available in RF mount. I think that seals the deal for me on the C70!

The main reason the C300ii is better ergonomically is the viewfinder, the natural weight of the camera, the full sized XLR ports, the connections being on the back rather than the side, the relocatable grip, the movable monitor. The C70 needs a cage and monitor to even get close. The lack of an EVF in the C70 really sucks tbh. Again, this all depends on what you're doing. If you're shooting with a gimbal, monopod, or locked off, the C70 is better. If you're shooting handheld run and gun with something like the 24-105, then the C300ii is likely better.

The speed booster is awesome. There is vignetting when shooting wide open on some lenses. (this is related to the speed booster, not the lenses.)

Yes, you can magnify during recording. 

Speaking of anamorphic. I did rent an Atlas 32mm over the summer. The aspect was pretty crazy because the lenses are 2x, but they did kind of remove the typical Canon look. Still kind of soft compared to the Komodo imo.

 

[Django]

Gorgeous! C70 ticks so many boxes for me. It really sounds like the perfect cam for my needs (A-cam for an R6 replacing C100/C200). 

I feel its really under-rated because of its form factor and no RAW or 6/8K. 

At it's price point it's competing with the C300ii/6KP/Komodo/R5/R3/FX3/FX6.

All great cameras but the C70 really sounds like that perfect balance between all of them.

 

[kye]

3 hours ago, BenEricson said:

Interesting enough, when I compared both cameras in the Wide DR codec, there was more noise on the C70 than the C300Mkii in ISOs over 1600. I kind of expected the opposite. 

The WideDR profile was unusable on the XC10.  Maybe there's some problem with implementing it on lesser cameras (technical, appetite, politics inside Canon, etc).

[kye]

3 hours ago, BenEricson said:

This is true. The noise issue in extreme situations on the C300 Mkii can be really bad. You can avoid by shooting at ISO 500 and avoid C-LOG 2 in those types of situations.

You're right, the C500 Mkii is an incredible work horse camera. It's disappointing that there is no light weight 6k codec.

My point was that the C300 Mk2 and the C70 are not worlds apart. In 95 percent of situations, they will look nearly identical. 

I was also disappointed that they removed a lot of the picture profiles in the C70. A lot of the baked in profiles that I had used in the past, (rarely,) have been removed. There is no Cinema EOS Original, no BT.709 in Clog2, they also removed the 12 bit 444 2k codec.

Interesting enough, when I compared both cameras in the Wide DR codec, there was more noise on the C70 than the C300Mkii in ISOs over 1600. I kind of expected the opposite. 

https://vimeo.com/543915327/c8c6ad9ce9

I guess my main point was that the Komodo clearly has a significant leap in quality (to my eyes.) The C500ii, C70, and C300iii all kind of look similar.

The main reason the C300ii is better ergonomically is the viewfinder, the natural weight of the camera, the full sized XLR ports, the connections being on the back rather than the side, the relocatable grip, the movable monitor. The C70 needs a cage and monitor to even get close. The lack of an EVF in the C70 really sucks tbh. Again, this all depends on what you're doing. If you're shooting with a gimbal, monopod, or locked off, the C70 is better. If you're shooting handheld run and gun with something like the 24-105, then the C300ii is likely better.

The speed booster is awesome. There is vignetting when shooting wide open on some lenses. (this is related to the speed booster, not the lenses.)

Yes, you can magnify during recording. 

Speaking of anamorphic. I did rent an Atlas 32mm over the summer. The aspect was pretty crazy because the lenses are 2x, but they did kind of remove the typical Canon look. Still kind of soft compared to the Komodo imo.

 

Great looking images!

Have you tried playing with sharpening on the C70 footage?  I feel like sharpening is a whole skill unto itself, but because all the cameras that YouTubers use are over sharpened, no-one talks about it in those "how-to make your coffee look cinematic" ads tutorials.

I'd suggest working out all the ways your NLE can sharpen (of which there are many) and then pull a few test shots into a timeline and apply every type of sharpening at, say, 10 different strengths, making sure to go higher than what you think looks reasonable.  Then export it to whatever resolution / codec you deliver in and then sit back and from a sensible viewing distance compare it to whatever you think is natural.  

A test like that will be some work to do, maybe a couple of hours, but it will answer the question about what method and strength to apply to get your preference.  A few hours spent doing a real test will save you dozens of hours farting around here and there and not being happy with the results.

2 hours ago, Django said:

Gorgeous! C70 ticks so many boxes for me. It really sounds like the perfect cam for my needs (A-cam for an R6 replacing C100/C200). 

I feel its really under-rated because of its form factor and no RAW or 6/8K. 

At it's price point it's competing with the C300ii/6KP/Komodo/R5/R3/FX3/FX6.

All great cameras but the C70 really sounds like that perfect balance between all of them.

I suspect the C70 is one of those workhorse cameras that will be churning out images for low-budget TV and movies, and doing marketing, corporate and wedding gigs too.  It's a quieter camera.  No-one is making those "I shot a corporate on a C70" videos because they're not noteworthy, like say, shooting a wedding on an iPhone.

 

[Video Hummus]

8 hours ago, Django said:

Gorgeous! C70 ticks so many boxes for me. It really sounds like the perfect cam for my needs (A-cam for an R6 replacing C100/C200). 

I feel its really under-rated because of its form factor and no RAW or 6/8K. 

At it's price point it's competing with the C300ii/6KP/Komodo/R5/R3/FX3/FX6.

All great cameras but the C70 really sounds like that perfect balance between all of them.

 

I'm also looking into the C70. I don't need it but no-fuss image, internal NDs and false colors/waveforms are attractive over say the R6 I've been using and the just released R3.

Might also wait to see what comes in the pipeline in 2022. If Sony releases an FX3 style camera with internal ND I might consider that too although I would like to avoid having to lens mounts. Please Canon!

[TomTheDP]

12 hours ago, BenEricson said:

This is true. The noise issue in extreme situations on the C300 Mkii can be really bad. You can avoid by shooting at ISO 500 and avoid C-LOG 2 in those types of situations.

This wasn't actually noise. In the scene I was using haze and thought it was coming from the window blinds. But it was actually just a pattern from the sensor or maybe some kind of weird reflection?? 

 

[HockeyFan12]

3 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

This wasn't actually noise. In the scene I was using haze and thought it was coming from the window blinds. But it was actually just a pattern from the sensor or maybe some kind of weird reflection?? 

 

CMOS smear I think is the term. I saw that around light sources too and it was there in the dynamic range test. I think this has been fixed in the newer models but not sure.

[TomTheDP]

1 hour ago, HockeyFan12 said:

CMOS smear I think is the term. I saw that around light sources too and it was there in the dynamic range test. I think this has been fixed in the newer models but not sure.

It really killed me 😅

Good to hear its gone in newer models. The C300 MK2 can record BRAW with the new 12g assist, pretty compelling option. Too bad the C70 can't do any sort of RAW.