A7IV opinions

[lebigmac]

Hey,
what is your opinion of the A7IV? What do you think of it, in comparison to the S5, for instance, as a hybrid shooter with 10bit opportunities? The A7IV is 1600 € more than the S5 here + the prices for some L-Mount have come down.
I saved all my dimes to jump on the 'next' A7 and skipping the A7iii, but now, I find it quite hefty priced compared to its peers. 
My main reasons to long for the next A7 were:
- good low light performance
- video specs that allow for post correction of white balance mismatches and decent highlight and shadow recovery   
- up to the task for five years or more
I think, the A7iii might cover most of it as well, which is around 1200 € in mint condition.
What do you think?
Does anybody already own the A7IV? 

 

[Mark Romero 2]

I don't own an a7 IV, but I do own an S5 and an S1, and at least the Panasonic 24-105 f/4 (the other lenses I own are adapted Canon EF and vintage Minolta MD lenses).

But I have been eyeing the a7 IV. I might be mistaken, but I think that @Trek of Joyhas one??? (Maybe he owns the a7S III instead of the a7 IV).

As an S5 / S1 owner, the things I envy about the a7 IV would be the lens selection and smaller size. And of course, the autofocus. If it had 4K 60fps in FULL FRAME I would be really tempted (although I already own several E Mount aps-c lenses that I could throw on the a7 IV when I want to shoot 4K 60fps in the crop sensor format).

There are some things that I would DEFINITELY miss that the S5 has though, namely:

waveforms
great IBIS
Ergonomics (even though the S5 is still a bit bigger / heavier than what I would prefer, and the S1 is DEFINITELY a beast).
Luminance spot meter

The other things I might POTENTIALLY miss would be like the ability to record in RAW externally, but I don't currently own any external recorders, so that might not be an issue for me personally.

Anyway, hope this helps you with your decision.

[lebigmac]

I fear, the AIV with '131 x 96 x 80 mm, 659 g'  is no less bulky than the S5 (133 x 98 x 82 mm, 714 g). I loved the look of my Minolta lenses on the A7 m I, and I really hope, the A7IV would perform the same way, despite the higher resolution sensor.  Ibis is certainly big plus for the S5, although the cropped in electronic IS on the Sony seems to narrow that a bit.   

[Mark Romero 2]

5 hours ago, lebigmac said:

Ibis is certainly big plus for the S5, although the cropped in electronic IS on the Sony seems to narrow that a bit.   

Yes.

And if one is willing to use the gyroscopic stabilization method, it is supposed to be great. But there seems to be a few compromises (using faster shutter speeds and you can't batch process clips unless you upgrade to the paid version of Sony Catalyst).

[Django]

Nobody has an A7IV, it hasn't released yet.

Here was a thread here about it:

https://www.eoshd.com/comments/topic/56655-sony-a7-iv/

[MrSMW]

Opinion?

Depends where I was already invested...

If I was with Sony and had an A7iii, nah, not worth updating to a IV IMO.

If I had an A7ii or something, then probably yes, the iv is where I'd go next.

If I was with Panny and had an S5, nah, the S5 is a bit of a beast and especially for the price.

What's the difference between the two?

Basically the same size and weight as makes no difference.

SOOC the Panny is 'probably' better video and the Sony 'arguably' better stills...but we're talking tiny, tiny amounts.

IBIS, allegedly anything Panny is better than anything Sony.

I think in the real world, there's nothing really significant between either of these two or several other peers.

I think it comes down to which system has more appeal with these two?

For me, it's Pannyboy and their Pony of Hope.

Yes, their tracking AF could be a smidge better, but otherwise, far more appeal going...for me...for Panasonic.

 

[bjohn]

On 11/27/2021 at 3:03 PM, lebigmac said:

I loved the look of my Minolta lenses on the A7 m I, and I really hope, the A7IV would perform the same way, despite the higher resolution sensor

I don't think that'll be an issue. I've read (likely on the phillipreeve site) that the Minolta Rokkors perform well even on the A7riii and A7riv, both of which have higher-resolution sensors than the A7iv.

I use my A7iii for stills only, no video, and would likely do the same if I get an A7iv, but the A7iv is attractive to me for the weather resistance plus the better sensor protection (dust on the sensor is my main complaint with the A7iii; I have to wet-clean it every month and blow it out with a rocket blower with every lens change, but even so I spend a lot of time in post eliminating dust spots. It's frustrating. The A7iv has a feature where you can close the shutter when changing lenses.

[Trek of Joy]

On 11/27/2021 at 2:11 PM, Mark Romero 2 said:

I don't own an a7 IV, but I do own an S5 and an S1, and at least the Panasonic 24-105 f/4 (the other lenses I own are adapted Canon EF and vintage Minolta MD lenses).

But I have been eyeing the a7 IV. I might be mistaken, but I think that @Trek of Joyhas one??? (Maybe he owns the a7S III instead of the a7 IV).

As an S5 / S1 owner, the things I envy about the a7 IV would be the lens selection and smaller size. And of course, the autofocus. If it had 4K 60fps in FULL FRAME I would be really tempted (although I already own several E Mount aps-c lenses that I could throw on the a7 IV when I want to shoot 4K 60fps in the crop sensor format).

There are some things that I would DEFINITELY miss that the S5 has though, namely:

waveforms
great IBIS
Ergonomics (even though the S5 is still a bit bigger / heavier than what I would prefer, and the S1 is DEFINITELY a beast).
Luminance spot meter

The other things I might POTENTIALLY miss would be like the ability to record in RAW externally, but I don't currently own any external recorders, so that might not be an issue for me personally.

Anyway, hope this helps you with your decision.

A7IV? I wish. I have one on order LOL, but I'm in the US and we won't see them for another month. Right now its the a7III/a7sIII combo for me. All of your S5 points are great and honestly features I would like to see on Sony, though I get monitoring and false color with the Ninja which I don't mind rigging.

The latest Sony AF has been a game changer for me, I need glasses for anything within a few feet and its just made me so much faster, I almost never focus manually because I can't see further away with my glasses on. So I'm looking forward to the a7IV to better compliment the a7sIII - Sony's real time tracking never ceases to impress, its really, really good. The other upgrades are welcome too, and I really don't mind the 60p crop, even if I didn't have the a7sIII.

Cheers

Chris

[scotchtape]

I'm upgrading my A7III to A7IV, bit disappointed with the lack of FF 60FPS but if you do video work the 10-bit and option for 4K slow mo at least makes it a backup to the A7SIII.

I think 6K/8K is going to be here soon so I don't know if in 5 years any camera is going to be relevant!

[bjohn]

3 hours ago, scotchtape said:

I think 6K/8K is going to be here soon so I don't know if in 5 years any camera is going to be relevant!

That of course depends on how you define "relevant." I think even 1080p will be around for 10-20 years; it's totally watchable.

[Mark Romero 2]

19 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

A7IV? I wish. I have one on order LOL, but I'm in the US and we won't see them for another month. Right now its the a7III/a7sIII combo for me. All of your S5 points are great and honestly features I would like to see on Sony, though I get monitoring and false color with the Ninja which I don't mind rigging.

The latest Sony AF has been a game changer for me, I need glasses for anything within a few feet and its just made me so much faster, I almost never focus manually because I can't see further away with my glasses on. So I'm looking forward to the a7IV to better compliment the a7sIII - Sony's real time tracking never ceases to impress, its really, really good. The other upgrades are welcome too, and I really don't mind the 60p crop, even if I didn't have the a7sIII.

Cheers

Chris

Glad to hear the Sony's are working out for you. Hopefully you are staying safe and still having a good time.

[lebigmac]

On 11/29/2021 at 4:38 PM, MrSMW said:

f I was with Panny and had an S5, nah, the S5 is a bit of a beast and especially for the price.

What's the difference between the two?

Basically the same size and weight as makes no difference.

SOOC the Panny is 'probably' better video and the Sony 'arguably' better stills...but we're talking tiny, tiny amounts.

L-mount glasses are still a bit of an invest. I've watched a ton of videos on the S5, and my impression is that it has a bit of an unpleasant highlight roll off and from what If have seen does have a more videoish look SOOC, compared to the A7iii and A7c - which share the same sensor with the S5, I guess.
On the other hand, at least here, prices for the body are far apart.
New with cashback:
S5 is € 1.390.-
A7iii is at € 1.550.-

A7iV is € 2800.-

So opting for the A7IV over the 24mp sensor would really be a bold move – is it worth the up to € 1500 extra and considering that it might be outpaced sooner than the A7iii was in its time, by models with less rolling shutter and better stabilization. 
 

[Mark Romero 2]

35 minutes ago, lebigmac said:

L-mount glasses are still a bit of an invest. I've watched a ton of videos on the S5, and my impression is that it has a bit of an unpleasant highlight roll off and from what If have seen does have a more videoish look SOOC, compared to the A7iii and A7c - which share the same sensor with the S5, I guess.
On the other hand, at least here, prices for the body are far apart.
New with cashback:
S5 is € 1.390.-
A7iii is at € 1.550.-

A7iV is € 2800.-

So opting for the A7IV over the 24mp sensor would really be a bold move – is it worth the up to € 1500 extra and considering that it might be outpaced sooner than the A7iii was in its time, by models with less rolling shutter and better stabilization. 
 

Actually, I find the rolloff on the S1 / S5 quite pleasing. I don't have an a7 III (only aps-c sony cameras) but I feel 10-bit V-LOG in the S1 / S5 cameras is much better than in the Sony aps-c cameras I own. 

No one can predict the longevity of the a7 IV, but I would say that sony usually splits their price point in to one of three branches: basic cameras (the a7 III), high MP cameras (a7R III and a7R IV, for example) and fast readout cameras (a1, a9). Then there is the a7 S series of cameras.

So... I think if you want less rolling shutter, you are going to have to pay for one of the more expensive fast sensor cameras. Unless, there is some breakthrough to speed up the readout of the more affordable sensors.

 

[projectwoofer]

To me between the S5 and the A7III I would take the S5 any day of the week, especially for video. The image quality is so much better in my opinion. The A7IV could be a bit tempting but apart from the AF which I personally almost never use, I can't think of anything that would make me want it especially in the projected price. Not to mention the aggressive noise reduction that can't be turned off even on the more expensive A7SIII. Thanks but no thanks! 😁

[DFason]

I put a pre-order in for the 7IV to pair with my Siii. I own a couple other Sony's and have a lot invested in the glass. I also have a set of FD's that I can throw on for manual lens. Like another user said, the AF is incredible on these. I am a one man band and it helps in so many ways. 

I like the S5 IQ but the modern Sony cameras are damn close. 

Few rolling shutter sucks, NR built in blows and no waveforms is a bummer. Oh and no 1/48th... 

I love the Sony cameras but I would 100% skip the A7iii if money is the issue. Save for the IV or pick up the S5. 

[MrSMW]

21 hours ago, lebigmac said:

L-mount glasses are still a bit of an invest. I've watched a ton of videos on the S5, and my impression is that it has a bit of an unpleasant highlight roll off and from what If have seen does have a more videoish look SOOC, compared to the A7iii and A7c - which share the same sensor with the S5, I guess.
On the other hand, at least here, prices for the body are far apart.
New with cashback:
S5 is € 1.390.-
A7iii is at € 1.550.-

A7iV is € 2800.-

So opting for the A7IV over the 24mp sensor would really be a bold move – is it worth the up to € 1500 extra and considering that it might be outpaced sooner than the A7iii was in its time, by models with less rolling shutter and better stabilization. 
 

Or you could get a used, but as new S5 for ballpark 1000 euros…

Not that I’m a fanboy or anything, - I will use whatever I need to do the job and right now that is L Mount.

I could easily make a case though for:

A7iii instead on my S5 (though IMO the S5 is ‘better’ + A7siii instead of my S1H and A7iv instead of my S1R.

But I could make that same argument with both Canon and Nikon and Fuji, so yes, cost has to be a consideration and buying used is a great way of making things work.

I did buy the first of my S5’s brand spanking new at launch…but I was without any kit at the time and had a job coming out and was probably going L Mount so… But glass aside, I bought my last 3 bodies used and with the S1R especially, at a stupidly cheap price (1500 euros).

So yes, price comes into it as it has to + use case + I have to say, enjoyment which is an important factor for me.

[lebigmac]

On 12/1/2021 at 5:37 PM, MrSMW said:

So yes, price comes into it as it has to + use case + I have to say, enjoyment which is an important factor for me.

I finally sold almost all my gear and pulled the trigger on the A7IV which is probably the most unreasonable option. Main reason, I guess, is the enjoyment I had with the first A7, which was just fun to hold and operate. Other than that, on the plus side, you have a flip out screen and 10bit. On the other side, you'll get a resolution bump that nobody needs – if, you would get an A7rIII for 600 $ less – at the the expense of comparably lackluster low light performance (deplorable) and rs.    
So, time to get convinced by practice. 

[kye]

I bumped into this video the other day, which gives a glimpse into the strange way that the A7iv processes it's images in-camera....

Unlike this behaviour, my GH5 is completely consistent in how it treats images with crop factors and resolutions etc, but I suspect that Panasonic is the exception rather than the rule here.

[Mark Romero 2]

22 hours ago, lebigmac said:

I finally sold almost all my gear and pulled the trigger on the A7IV which is probably the most unreasonable option. Main reason, I guess, is the enjoyment I had with the first A7, which was just fun to hold and operate. Other than that, on the plus side, you have a flip out screen and 10bit. On the other side, you'll get a resolution bump that nobody needs – if, you would get an A7rIII for 600 $ less – at the the expense of comparably lackluster low light performance (deplorable) and rs.    
So, time to get convinced by practice. 

If the a7 IV had full-frame 4K 60p, I would probably have gone for it. Despite my experiences with Sony aps-c cameras.

Keep us informed how it works out.

I am a bit concerned about the low-light noise patterns though. And the inconsistent overheating stories. Hopefully whatever is causing the overheating for SOME users can be fixed in firmware. 

[arson519]

for how much i like the lumix s1 image quality im going to sell it to get an A7IV and just go all sony because sony has all the good lenses good autofocus all there cameras use same battey they aint playing around like panasonic.