Sigma fp and EVF-11 for other cameras... Could be possible

[paulinventome]

So i just got an EVF-11 for the sigma fp and it's a really nice small lightweight EVF.

It uses the HDMI out, USB C and there are two prongs that i believe connect to the flash output on the side of the sigma fp

I want to see if i can use this for my Komodo, which is crying out for a small EVF (The Zacuto stuff is too large, i have an Eye already and would happily get rid of it)

So first experiment was to get some cables to plug the Komodo into the HDMI (via an SDI convertor) and then plug the USB C from the camera to the EVF - thinking that maybe that would be enough to start with. But no go. Then i saw the two prongs of the flash and wondering whether they were power and the USB C connection was control.

So anyone got any details on the pins for the flash on the side, or has anyone experimented? I'm just trying a proof of concept to see if it's possible, the EVF might be relying on control from the camera over that USB C in which case all bets are off...

cheers
Paul

[PannySVHS]

Have been asking myself the same for a EVF which was bulit for the mft Olympus cameras or the one for the Lumix GX1. Elegant, small size EVFs for cinemacameras are non existent, which I find akward. I also find monitors to be on the bulky side for smaller setups such as with DSLMs or with a BMMCC.

[Anaconda_]

 

3 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Elegant, small size EVFs for cinemacameras are non existent

Have you checked out the Portkeys LEYE ? There's also a version with SDI. It's more expensive, but I think it'd be worth it instead of going through converters.

They also have a bigger EVF, The OEYE which can control RED menus, but that's much more expensive.

[BTM_Pix]

On 1/12/2022 at 5:20 PM, paulinventome said:

So anyone got any details on the pins for the flash on the side, or has anyone experimented? I'm just trying a proof of concept to see if it's possible, the EVF might be relying on control from the camera over that USB C in which case all bets are off...

Based on NOT having access to the service manual for the FP or the EVF11.......

1. The USB-C port is more than likely a simple pass through rather than being used for power/control of the EVF11. You can test this by putting a USB-C cable from the FP to the EVF11 and then another one from that into an external SSD. If the EVF11 doesn't power on and the camera can still see and use the SSD then that will confirm it.
2. Based on it not being powered from the USB-C port then the presumption is it is being powered from the two pogo pins, with one of them being power and the other one obviously being ground. From tracing the connection from the pins of the HU11 flash interface to its hotshoe just now, the ground pin (unless there is some internal re-mapping) is the middle pin on the bottom row of the FP which would mean the one adjacent to it (as the pogo pins are horizontal on the EVF11) should be the power. However, I can't tell from the images of the EVF11 (as I don't have one unfortunately) whether this is on the one to the left or right but you should be able to determine that when you offer it up to the FP for connection.  Once that is established, you should be able to measure the voltage coming from the FP to determine what external power you will need to provide.
3. If there is no control information between the FP and the EVF11 through the USB port then it will be being provided through the HDMI port's data control channel. 

If I was going to look at hacking the EVF (heaven forbid, obviously) then I would start with extending out the connections from the FP to it in the same way as with the USB-C port before looking at the power as that offers the least chance of blowing up the FP and/or the EVF11. 

So, put some clips between the pogo pins of the FP and the EVF11 and an HDMI cable in between too.

You can then remove the HDMI cable and see what happens both with it going to fresh air but then also what happens if you plug it into another HDMI device, what happens when you plug it back into the FP etc.

This should tell you if there is any specific data communication over HDMI from the FP to the EVF11 that prevents it working with any source as if it does that then there isn't much point going on to the power aspect.

If it does work with another HDMI source whilst being powered from the FP then you might still not be out of the woods as there could be an initial handshake that is happening prior to you changing source so the next test would be to power it on with the other source already connected and see if it still works.

If it does then you are only looking at the power situation but obviously proceed absolutely at your own risk with that both from the initial measuring side on the FP to then building something custom based on that to power the EVF11.

 

[amweber21]

I have been curious about doing something like this since the evf-11 was announced. I haven't yet bought it for my fp L, but it would be nice to at least relocate the evf on a rosette arm or similar for shoulder mounts, etc. I was thinking of converting my supplied HU-11 (that I never really use) into a mount with a fixed hdmi/usb cable extensions in place. It would need to be popped open to extract the 2 needed wires coming off the pogo pins. This no doubt supplies the evf-11 power. The 2 wires can be combined with the hdmi and usb extension (making sure to use cables that support the data throughput) into a single 6-12" heat shrink tubing wire lead.

The other end would be more complicated because it would need to mount onto something fabricated. One could either mount the evf-11 to an arm via the 1/4" 20 with possibly incorporating the locating pin somehow and just "plug in" the ends of each extension, or a more permanent base could be made. I suspect, using Sigma's provided CAD files for the fp and accessories would help to 3D print the terminal portion of the fp. The mounting could be customized depending on your need.

This would be fp specific, but to use it on a different device you would need to figure out the correct power requirement to supply the pins. There must be some type of 2 way communication between the evf and camera body, however. The switch on the evf tells the body to either supply power/video to the unit or disable it and use the lcd display. I have no idea if this is down through usb or the pogo pins somehow.

I would say it should be possible to do it on a fp body, but questionable on a different body. I would recommend to get a usb and hdmi extension cable and 2 wires for the pins, and just bridge the connections. See if it operates at all. I'd be happy to hear what you come up with!

[paulinventome]

On 1/13/2022 at 3:28 PM, Anaconda_ said:

 

Have you checked out the Portkeys LEYE ? There's also a version with SDI. It's more expensive, but I think it'd be worth it instead of going through converters.

They also have a bigger EVF, The OEYE which can control RED menus, but that's much more expensive.

I did, it's still quite big. I have a Graticule Eye and the OEYE is quite a bit longer. At the moment i'm using Hassleblad OVF Prisms on the Komodo screen itself, which is 1440px across anyway. Very easy but limited angles. 

I may speak to portkeys actually, they just released an SDI version of their mini screen, which in someways is more compact

thanks
Paul

[paulinventome]

On 1/13/2022 at 3:59 PM, BTM_Pix said:

Based on NOT having access to the service manual for the FP or the EVF11.......

1.  

Good thoughts!

I spoke to Sigma who said it wasn't possible, Whether that's true or not i don't know - i must assume there are handshakes going on because there is a switch on the EVF for flipping between LCD and EVF and that has to pass back into the camera somehow.

I could rig something for power (you are right, that has to be power source).. I have extension cables for USB and HDMI, so if i power it then it should work as is - then swap the HDMI signal and see if that works... Despite what sigma says it is still tempting as officially i doubt they could say it would work (it was worth an ask)

There's a new Leica M11 EVF as well... Hmmmm

cheers
Paul

[Fairkid]

I would love to find a way to incorporate a small EVF into my C70 rig. It's the one major thing that is missing for me from the camera. I have thought about the Portkeys Leye but apparently the loop is poor quality and the diopter slips.