Canon EOS R5C

[kye]

7 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

In their promo video at the cued up point here, they dedicate a whole section of it to the "hey, switch to stills....hey, lets do video...hey, back to stills".

 

They make it appear to be seamless and pretty much instant when the reality is they should have shown this between each switch.

So whether you need it or not isn't the point for me, more that there's no need for such blatantly misleading bollocks from Canon in their promo video.

Mind you, its probably fixable in firmware as we know what they are like when it comes to timers don't we ?

For those people there are only two kinds of delays: ones that take less than the 0.2s that their ADHD will tolerate, and larger ones that mandate Instagram usage.

My experience of living with ADHD teenagers is that normal life provides 100+ moments when social media can be utilised, therefore the delay in mode switching is basically invisible!

7 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

EOS R5 C is a hybrid cam!

Thinking more about their choice to make it a Dual-Boot OS reveals something very interesting.

By going dual-boot they're essentially showing that it's easier to take an existing Cinema BIOS and port it to the R5C hardware than to integrate new features into the stills BIOS.

This implies that:

• the hardware in the R5C must be relatively similar to a cinema camera, otherwise it would have been too difficult to port and they would have gone the other way (like they normally do)
• the divide between the stills and cinema divisions must be far less now, as the development would have required someone from the cinema department work with the stills department to develop the hardware and get the software to work

Obviously it's not clear what the politics are, but it means a cultural change within the company to either let it happen (if you're the cinema department) or to order it to happen (if you're in charge and can make people do things they don't want to do).

[MrSMW]

That 8 second delay (never mind the lack of IBIS) kills it for me.

Currently, although my 3 cameras are all hybrid and variations of each other (S1R, S1H, S5) I use each either for photo only or video only.

Next time I switch (urge) it will be…and only be, to a system of 3 identical bodies (with primes) or 2 identical bodies (with fast zooms).

If I did choose to use my current kit in hybrid form, I’d say the delay was between 1-2 seconds.

I simply have photo mode set as C1 and video mode as C2 with saved custom settings and then an option video mode as C3.

The other big issue switching continually between stills and video is filters though, specifically VND’s.

Outdoors on a bright sunny day, not a problem, but indoors where you might need a VND, you almost always do not for photography.

An internal switch in switch off VND is the holy grail in that regard!

Canon do have the drop in option for use with EF lenses in the RF mount and there is a flip up filter system I have tried (but looks shit) and is currently the best (and only option other than magnetic QR filters?) for hybrid shooters who need minimum delay such as us event shooters.

[Trek of Joy]

15 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Canon do have the drop in option for use with EF lenses in the RF mount and there is a flip up filter system I have tried (but looks shit) and is currently the best (and only option other than magnetic QR filters?) for hybrid shooters who need minimum delay such as us event shooters.

I'm about to invest in either the Kase, Freewell or K&F mag filter system and replace all my screw on and 100mm filters with one system, just can't decide which one. Being able to mix and match between ND/CPL/Mist and so on is a huge plus. The magnetic thing looks like a great solution for run and gun field work. Just trying to decide on which system has everything I need and such and do the numbers with step up rings, extra caps and all the bits. 

Chris

[Video Hummus]

19 hours ago, kye said:

Obviously it's not clear what the politics are, but it means a cultural change within the company to either let it happen (if you're the cinema department) or to order it to happen (if you're in charge and can make people do things they don't want to do).

I did software for a bit. It is interesting they took this route instead of developing a unified OS version that could feature gate individual features cohesively across models. Perhaps thats coming down the pipe, who knows. Probably just internal politics, bean counting, and product segmentation.

 

[kye]

4 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

I'm about to invest in either the Kase, Freewell or K&F mag filter system and replace all my screw on and 100mm filters with one system, just can't decide which one. Being able to mix and match between ND/CPL/Mist and so on is a huge plus. The magnetic thing looks like a great solution for run and gun field work. Just trying to decide on which system has everything I need and such and do the numbers with step up rings, extra caps and all the bits. 

Chris

I bought a pair of manfrotto xume adapters to add a fixed ND and found them to be super convenient, so definitely a useful purchase for working quickly.

One thing that comes to mind is I don't know how well they would work with a vND as if you try to rotate the filter it might slide on the magnetic interface rather than actually change the vND strength, same with any other filters that are adjustable like this.  You don't seem to be using any but just thought it was worth a mention.

The other thing is that you have to mount the magnetic rings onto the filters themselves (two of them if you want to be able to add/remove each filter independently) so be aware that it will make your filters thicker and that might cause challenges for whatever you're storing the filters in when they're not on the lens.

1 hour ago, Video Hummus said:

I did software for a bit. It is interesting they took this route instead of developing a unified OS version that could feature gate individual features cohesively across models. Perhaps thats coming down the pipe, who knows. Probably just internal politics, bean counting, and product segmentation.

The level of work to integrate two complete separate BIOS's would be staggering.

Assuming that this move from them is indicative of a future direction where hybrid cameras aren't in a parallel universe from their cine cameras, it would make sense for them to start again and build a new one from the ground up.  They might have been doing this in the background for years.  Certainly, other corporates I've been in often have a little 'pie-in-the-sky' project for concept development, that then moves into feasibility and high-level scoping after a few years, then into a preliminary design phase, before having its tyres kicked by the bean-counters and potentially green-lit for development into an actual prototype etc.

My impression on some of their previous limitations (eg, why Canon 1080p was really just soft 720p) was that it was related to legacy hardware, and even legacy hardware architecture.  If they were sufficiently pushed into a corner by the market to do something about it then I'd suggest that developing a unified hardware architecture and a unified BIOS architecture would make sense.  They could structure it to be configurable so that the BIOS could be configured for the presence/absence of various interfaces, processing chips, etc.  It could also be configured to easily cripple-hammer too, so they could arbitrarily disable various functions in software on a particular model even if the hardware would support it.  It could even enable paid upgrades to unlock features.

Time will tell I guess.

[kaylee]

kayleerumors is reporting!!!!

Quote

“Imaging professionals are living in a multimedia world. Gone are the days of only needing one body to be sufficiently equipped and skilled at video or stills. By simply buying two EOS R5 C bodies, the end-user can have one on the ready for stills or video at all times. Canon is confident this all-in-two solution can help improve the workflow for a variety of content creators.”

-- Tatsuro “Tony” Kano, Executive Vice President and General Manager of Canon U.S.A.’s Imaging Technologies & Communications Group

[MrSMW]

7 hours ago, Trek of Joy said:

I'm about to invest in either the Kase, Freewell or K&F mag filter system and replace all my screw on and 100mm filters with one system, just can't decide which one. Being able to mix and match between ND/CPL/Mist and so on is a huge plus. The magnetic thing looks like a great solution for run and gun field work. Just trying to decide on which system has everything I need and such and do the numbers with step up rings, extra caps and all the bits. 

Chris

I've tried all kind of different set ups and in the end it came down to having:

Nisi 1/8th mists on all my video designated lens of which I have 3, plus 2x Freewell VND (2-5 stop) slightly over-sized so step up rings on the mist filters so the VND's can be screwed on or off as required.

I went screw on instead of magnetic in the end as I use the VND's all day long until we hit dusk/the point when they are no longer required/ISO is getting pushed higher.

Mists all the time for consistency whether in daylight or after dark, indoors or out...because they do just take that digital edge off 4k footage.

On my stills camera, no filters ever, but considering maybe getting a CPL again for some landscape work...

I have also played with a system of 'how it would work if I used my cameras in a true hybrid style', ie, flipped all day long between stills and video with the same cameras.

For that system, I'd use primes instead of a mix of primes (video) and fast zooms (stills) and use the flip up Tilta system with Freewell VND's with built in mist.

So I'd just flip up the Tilta/VND when shooting stills and flip it back down when in video mood. Not much of a faff at all but it does look a bit rubbish having what looks like an over-sized gunsight on the end of your lens when in photo mode!

[Andrew Reid]

On 1/26/2022 at 7:08 AM, MrSMW said:

That 8 second delay (never mind the lack of IBIS) kills it for me.

Canon: Let's make EOS R5 better for video shooters...

*Proceeds to remove IBIS and introduce 8 second delay on video/stills switch*

On 1/26/2022 at 7:08 AM, MrSMW said:

Currently, although my 3 cameras are all hybrid and variations of each other (S1R, S1H, S5) I use each either for photo only or video only.

S1R is a bargain at current used prices. Did you upgrade the firmware when it basically got Leica SL2 specs for free?

I think S1H makes a great photo camera. Great in low light, very nice EVF, good AF in stills mode but of course video AF not up to standard of competition.

If S2H comes out and is smaller, lighter, same features, just as nice ergonomics, addition of internal ProRes and BRAW and has phase-detect AF on chip then it will be an end-game camera. I would literally sell ALL my E-mount lenses and invest in Sigma and Panasonic L-mount.

On 1/26/2022 at 7:08 AM, MrSMW said:

If I did choose to use my current kit in hybrid form, I’d say the delay was between 1-2 seconds.

This is Canon's desire too, avoid the 8 second delay by buying 3 more Canon cameras 🙂

On 1/26/2022 at 7:08 AM, MrSMW said:

Outdoors on a bright sunny day, not a problem, but indoors where you might need a VND, you almost always do not for photography.

Yes would be great to have an internal eND that automatically turns clear when you switch to stills mode.

On 1/26/2022 at 7:08 AM, MrSMW said:

Canon do have the drop in option for use with EF lenses in the RF mount and there is a flip up filter system I have tried (but looks shit) and is currently the best (and only option other than magnetic QR filters?) for hybrid shooters who need minimum delay such as us event shooters.

The time lost here is storing the filter glass somewhere safe where it isn't going to get lost or dirtied up.

Controlled shoot or on set no issues, but out in field just putting it in a coat pocket isn't going to cut it.

[MrSMW]

32 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

Canon: Let's make EOS R5 better for video shooters...

*Proceeds to remove IBIS and introduce 8 second delay on video/stills switch*

S1R is a bargain at current used prices. Did you upgrade the firmware when it basically got Leica SL2 specs for free?

I think S1H makes a great photo camera. Great in low light, very nice EVF, good AF in stills mode but of course video AF not up to standard of competition.

If S2H comes out and is smaller, lighter, same features, just as nice ergonomics, addition of internal ProRes and BRAW and has phase-detect AF on chip then it will be an end-game camera. I would literally sell ALL my E-mount lenses and invest in Sigma and Panasonic L-mount.

This is Canon's desire too, avoid the 8 second delay by buying 3 more Canon cameras 🙂

Yes would be great to have an internal eND that automatically turns clear when you switch to stills mode.

The time lost here is storing the filter glass somewhere safe where it isn't going to get lost or dirtied up.

Controlled shoot or on set no issues, but out in field just putting it in a coat pocket isn't going to cut it.

I wouldn't kick a pair of R5's out of bed other than...

The cost of flipping to a totally new system...and I'd still need a 3rd body but my biggest concern would be trading less than brilliant AF for less than brilliant heat management. Which is the lesser of the two evils, some occasional but rare OOF footage vs 10K+ after trade in and cameras that could potentially shut down on a typical mid/high 30 degree day I shoot in?

Plus the companies shenanigans. It isn't an absolute deal-breaker for me, but irks me...

If this kind of thing was a deal-breaker, I wouldn't use Apple products, Adobe software or Amazon, so sometimes we choose to put up with less than stellar business practices.

Canon would and could be on my list, but doesn't/can't top it.

Yep, S1R on most recent firmware and purchased 'as new' for 1500 euros.

S1H is underrated as a photo camera but excellent. In fact, of the 3, the R the H and the S5, it's my preferred body. By quite some margin. There are small but fundamental significant differences which means it beats the S1R and destroys the S5. In my opinion.

An S2H would be 'The Dream'. Identical body to the S1H please (though if it was 10% smaller and 10% lighter, I would not complain), had:

PDAF or massively updated DFD that was reliable for tracking AF.

Up the megapickles to at least a Sony equiv 33 but do not exceed 50.

FF 4k 60 and 120.

Internal VND.

If I could live without one thing, it would be the internal VND.

The second would be the megapixel count capped at 24 still.

Take my money now Panasonic. End game camera for me also. Well at least 4-5 year camera anyway...

I can dream...

Right now and for all of this year, I can't and won't change a thing in my kit line up.

It will have more than earned it's keep by the end of the year and only over the Winter will I even consider changing the system which as things stand would be:

1: A next gen L Mount system for the most minimal transition (ie, could retain lenses etc).

2: A complete flip back to Fuji if the above did not exist but the XH2 ticks enough boxes.

3: Nikon Z9 based system or if it's filtered down, Z6/7iii option

 

 

 

4: Canon or Sony

5: Sony or Canon

 

 

6: Career change

 

[webrunner5]

 

Not sure this has been shown here, but pretty interesting response from the Canon Rep. Sounds legit.

[Andrew Reid]

Legitimate twats

[herein2020]

1 hour ago, webrunner5 said:

 

Not sure this has been shown here, but pretty interesting response from the Canon Rep. Sounds legit.

I did post that here....my favorite was when the Canon rep said IBIS isn't perfect either because  when the sensor floats to the edges of the IBIS system lens distortion could make the image less clear.

Funny he didn't mention the IBIS wobble problem that only Canon seems to have.

[Video Hummus]

10 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I wouldn't kick a pair of R5's out of bed other than...

You could rent an R5C and a lens and try it out.

3 hours ago, herein2020 said:

Funny he didn't mention the IBIS wobble problem that only Canon seems to have.

Look at the wobble.

[MrSMW]

5 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

You could rent an R5C and a lens and try it out.

No IBIS no bueno. Absolute number 1 deal-breaker for me. If I can't handhold it near rock steady 90% of the day, it's a fail.

But otherwise I would agree in principal that if anyone wanted to really know if a bit of expensive kit suited them, to rent it first. If possible. Unfortunately very such opportunities exist in France other than a couple of the big cities. And I don't live anywhere near them.

I don't vlog. I don't use anything wider than a 35mm. No wobbles in my world 😜

But don't get me wrong, I don't dislike the R5C. It will be a really great option for a specific market. I'm just not that market due to the specific spec of this particular bit of kit.

[techie]

On R5C, you can have IS and you don't risk random results. No IBIS is a bless for owners of RF lenses with IS. On R5, you cannot have IS without IBIS. They want you buy Canon modern lenses. Old lenses are not welcome for business. This is the problem for many of you. These people should buy a different option. This camera isn't made for vintage lenses. It is made for their recent lens ecosystem. Canon wants people to switch to their product.

[ade towell]

1 hour ago, techie said:

On R5C, you can have IS and you don't risk random results. No IBIS is a bless for owners of RF lenses with IS. On R5, you cannot have IS without IBIS. They want you buy Canon modern lenses. Old lenses are not welcome for business. This is the problem for many of you. These people should buy a different option. This camera isn't made for vintage lenses. It is made for their recent lens ecosystem. Canon wants people to switch to their product.

No IBIS is only a blessing when shooting 24mm and wider. If Canon allowed you to turn IBIS off and just use the lens IS at these wider focal lengths and then have both stabilising systems working at more telephoto then we would have the best of both worlds. I'm really not sure why Canon wouldn't allow this at least in the R6 (and R5) that I tried, it was infuriating 

[techie]

24 minutes ago, ade towell said:

No IBIS is only a blessing when shooting 24mm and wider. If Canon allowed you to turn IBIS off and just use the lens IS at these wider focal lengths and then have both stabilising systems working at more telephoto then we would have the best of both worlds. I'm really not sure why Canon wouldn't allow this at least in the R6 (and R5) that I tried, it was infuriating 

You cannot turn IBIS off and just use the IS, hence a bless no IBIS, no wobble. On R5C, a professional cinema camera, you must be safe with your expensive wide angle RF lenses only with IS.

[Django]

21 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Not sure this has been shown here, but pretty interesting response from the Canon Rep. Sounds legit.

Prince Andrew should have hired that Rep for his PR team.. Good at dodging bullets & sweatproof.

 

[Ty Harper]

Apologies if this has been answered before, but does the image stabilization of Canon EF lenses with IS, work properly with the R5 when mounted with an EF-RF adapter and IBIS is turned off?

[herein2020]

9 hours ago, techie said:

On R5C, you can have IS and you don't risk random results. No IBIS is a bless for owners of RF lenses with IS. On R5, you cannot have IS without IBIS. They want you buy Canon modern lenses. Old lenses are not welcome for business. This is the problem for many of you. These people should buy a different option. This camera isn't made for vintage lenses. It is made for their recent lens ecosystem. Canon wants people to switch to their product.

 

Do you mean Lens IS or digital IS? With lens IS I would agree, it is pretty reliable, but the digital IS I have seen out of the C70 and R5C so far looks less reliable and more random than IBIS ever does at 35mm+ in the R5. I'm with @MrSMW no IBIS is a complete deal breaker for me.