Canon EOS R5C

[TomTheDP]

The GH6 really does seem to handle shadows well, the color holds up.

[kye]

5 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

The GH6 really does seem to handle shadows well, the color holds up.

Yeah, that stood out to me as a real advantage in my imperfect real-world shooting.  I've previously found the grain on the GH5 150Mbps 4K mode to be pretty good at higher ISOs as well.

The noise on the R5C doesn't seem as nice - and that banding wasn't at all aesthetically neutral!

[hyalinejim]

Yep, that GH6 grain is very film-like.

R5C 10bit looks like there is heavy temporal NR going on which causes that unnatural shimmering, especially when you compare it to the RAW output which is noisy but doesn't shimmer.

[kye]

4 hours ago, hyalinejim said:

Yep, that GH6 grain is very film-like.

R5C 10bit looks like there is heavy temporal NR going on which causes that unnatural shimmering, especially when you compare it to the RAW output which is noisy but doesn't shimmer.

To be fair, the GH6 noise is compressed (I'm assuming it's the Prores, but could be h26x) and the R5C RAW isn't, so the noise is likely to be sharper (for want of a better word).  I'm not sure that compression alone could turn the R5C RAW noise into the GH6 noise though.  Maybe some other processing is going on.  Resolve has a nice ability to do NR on the chroma and luma independently, which can yield nice results if you reduce the chroma and leave the luma relatively in-tact.  Of course, the R5C RAW gives you the full ability to do that in post however you would like.

I really think that NR is an art that no-one seems to talk about online.  I've experimented enough with NR / sharpening / adding grain (and seen what other people do with film-emulation etc) to know that it's not easy and that I'm really not good at it!

[Django]

On 5/18/2022 at 11:49 PM, PannySVHS said:

German testsite Slashcam. Very amazed, by the fact that the GH6 performed equally well as the R5C regarding dynamic range.

Here is a translation from their 5RC review, regarding the GH6 surprised them.:

"What's really amazing, however, is how well the winner from our last MFT dynamic showdown does: The Panasonic GH6 with Dynamic Boost can "only" come up with 6K, but otherwise delivers a thoroughly equal dynamic range. We will try to present you with more dynamic range comparisons in the next few weeks, which will hopefully result in a more differentiated picture of the current camera market."

 

 

 

What resolutions were the non 8K R5C Raw images shot at and what's the zoom percentage?

R5C 10-bit and Z9 can do 8K and GH6 6K yet they all look substantially lower resolution than the Canon 8K RAW.

I ask cuz that plays hugely when comparing the fixed noise patterns etc.

[gt3rs]

So I got a R5c for a week to test to decide if to switch one of my R5 to a R5c.

 

After the first two days these are my observations in comparison to the R5, that are hard to get from the youtube reviewer madness.

 

The good:

8K 60 RAW is the same quality as 8K 30. Btw in Resolve on my gaming notebook I can playback on a 4k 60 timeline with no issue with some basic color grading. I was expecting worse

4k 60 is great and better than R5 4k 60 logically

S35 6K RAW is also very good

4k 120 it seems also a tad better than the R5 but I need more test here to confirm

XAVC is a way better format to edit than h265 so the fact that you can do 4k up to 120 fps 10bit Clog3 in XAVC is great

The Cinema menu system is much more logical and better organized.

Waveform! False Color and Magnifying all during recording.

All the right info on the recoding display, the R5 is a bit of mess while recording video.

You can decide what you show where for almost anything LCD vs VF vs HDMI

You can really decide what you want to record on the second card in parallel, the R5 is ok but fairly restricted

More DR, is it 1.5 stop more than R5 as Gerald claims I cannot judge but is definitely better than the R5

No limits, no overheating

Still very small body

With long lens with IS I really don’t miss IBIS, I see no difference vs R5 (70-200 and 100-500), non IS lens is a no go compared to the R5 logically.

Face Only AF is really good for filming person as it will not focus on the bg and back to the face if it looses the face. R5 does not have this mode.

AF at the maximum speed settings is on pair with the R5 it seems but I need more test to confirm

Media playback has waveform and vector scope, R5 has nothing

2TB delikin cards are fast enough for 8K RAW LT 60 fps

 

 

I can work with but it could be better:

Switching from Photo to Video is slow but not as terrible as I thought, disabling in both Photo and Video the sensor cleaning make it somewhat usable

Maximum shutter speed is 1/2000….. I sometime use the camera in 8K RAW as remote camera for pictures and I need more that 1/2000….R5 is 1/4000  Why is like this I have no idea,?

The media playback part is not that great, no magnification on playback (same as R5), UI not great, no slow motion playback speed (R5 has it), need a lot of button press to delete videos, you cannot scroll through videos with the wheel, although  on the plus side it plays back one after the other (R5 cannot do this). Would be super useful that you could cut RAW video files in the media playback (R5 cannot do neither)

No audio controls for the onboard mic. R5 has it.

The body is wider so balancing on a Ronin S with the nd adapter and EF 24-70 2.8 is not ideal as the VF bumps on the motor…. with some weights or having the motor work more is fixable.

With EF lens no auto Iris but the R5 can do it.

Prerecording does not work in RAW

 

 

 

The bad:

Battery is really miserable and if you record or not it consumes basically the same, the problem that when the menus are displayed the camera still capture video at the frame rate that you set….. the only way that it seems to stop chewing battery is to call the media playback menu, so this is the only trick that seems to work to save battery instead of turning it off.

Using PD power banks solve the issue but the USB-C is bound to break and is on the main board.

Using a Dummy battery coupler with a V-Mount battery currently is not a good solution because all the dummy ones regulate at 7.2v not enough for 60fps! The only one that serves 9v is the canon one Canon DR-E6C DC Coupler for EOS R5 C 5664C001 B&H Photo Video (bhphotovideo.com) that is overpriced and a piece of junk as you need another adapter for the D-Tap Anton Bauer P-Tap to Canon 9V Barrel Cable (20") 8075-0271 B&H (bhphotovideo.com). Really a bad solution.
It desperately needs a third party dummy battery that regulates at 9v similar to this Kondor Blue D-Tap to Canon LP-E6 Dummy Battery KB-DTAP-CLPE6 B&H (bhphotovideo.com)
Or the real better solution a battery grip with 1Dx,R3 battery…….
If I keep it my plan is to buy a FXLION Nano One and use the USB PD port until somebody sells a 9v D-Tap dummy battery and then simply switch the cable.

AF is way less features rich than the R5: no animal, vehicle, helmet tracking. No various AF sizes only whole, large and small. AF > 60fps  is limited to Continuous AF, so no face tracking and no object tracking. This is the second biggest issue other than the battery

I could not find a way to store and recall settings like C1, C2, C3 on the R5…… so changing from 8K RAW 24p to 4k 120fps XAVC you need to touch multiple menu items. This should really be added.

Onboard WiFi is not working in Video mode.

Canon should enable the video feature in photo mode like in the R5 so if you need more rich AF and better battery is there.
Second they should optimize the battery management while not recording and add more features to the AF. The HW is capable so why not?
Third they should sell a D-Tap 9v dummy battery and a R3 battery grip too.
Forth they should remake the media playback part, with zoom, minimum video editing and better usability


I love the cinema OS for video but they really need to fix the battery and add AF feature then it would be the best camera. I’m even happy if they just re-enable video on the photo mode.

 

More tests in the next days. 

[FHDcrew]

How is the 1080p?  I hear somewhere in normal frame rates it does 8k>4k, and even 8k>1080p internal downsampling. Would be amazing. 

[gt3rs]

I went to a mini airshow F/A 18 and F5 and to a horse show jumping in these 3 days, something that I used a lot the R5 for and unfortunately even with the max speed setting the AF of the R5c is basically unusable for action, where the R5 would mostly keep the subject covered in the AF area in focus, the R5c would mostly stick to the BG 😞. I used the large area that is very similar to the square area of the R5 that I normally used but unfortunately is a no go.
On the jet I had to switch to the whole area to get something if focus but with the horse show jumping you can't as it will focus on the obstacles and not the athlete. 
Not really sure what to try but I would say the AF of the R5c is not ready for action. I really want the R5 AF on the R5c or just enable the video in the photo mode!!!!!!!!!!!

Also another annoying thing that when you turn off and back on the camera it put the AF square back to the center, not sure there is a setting for this but it should stay where I left it.

On the playback page you cannot applying any lut and you cannot magnify so really hard to tell if it is in focus. 

Now I need to think if to buy one as B cam where the AF is not so key as I mostly prefocus and for long recording or just stick with 2 R5.

Conclusion so far R5c is not a better R5 is a different R5 with some better and some worst part. A missed opportunity imo. 

 

 

The R5 would never do this to stay on the BG and I have done 50+ Show Jumping video with the R5 and the exact same lens.

[DWX]

I can confirm the R5C AF is not up to the task.  I wasn't expecting it to be so bad.  Couldn't reliably nail focus on simple subjects.  The R5 runs circles around the R5C AF wise.  I'd rather deal with the overheating on the R5 then the AF of the R5C.  I sent mine back.  I loved most everything else about it.  I'll have to go dual system with the R5 & Z9.  

[hyalinejim]

51 minutes ago, DWX said:

the R5 & Z9

Just curious, what does the R5 do for you that the Z9 can't?

[DWX]

The Z9 does mostly everything well, but the R5 has the better AF & is waaaay lighter.  Sometimes I just need something light to get-in & out.  R5 will be the BCAM in my studio shoots & as well as the backup for events since I need 2 cameras.  I do prefer the R5 as the primary when doing portrait stills due to color science. 

 

[gt3rs]

I did some testing with the smallest AF area and is a tad better at least it does not stick to the BG forewer..... this Friday I will have the opportunity to test it again in a horse show completion and I will try with the small AF area but I'm not so sure it will be also hard to keep the AF area so small on the athletes.. . 

On the plus side the Face/Eye tracking with Face Only option is a better implementation than the R5c, is more reliable than as it does not switch to BG and back if camera lose the Face for a moment. You can force to search for the Face on the AF area only, so this is better than the R5 but not R3 level. Everything else regarding the AF the R5 seems quite a bit ahead.

They should merge the teams and create a single set of AF algorithms that offers all the options that you have now spread in two OS.... the HW is the same so why not.

Anyone that has the R5c that has a tip how to quickly scroll and delete videos as I could not find a quick way than clicky clicky clicky clicky done. On the R5 once setup is quite quick. 

[gt3rs]

One really annoying and wired thing is that if you switch from 59hz or 50hz to 24hz you need to format the card and if you go back to 50 or 59 you need to format again….. why?

Also in 50hz you cannot playback 30p and 60  p videos and viceversa.

R5 has none of these limitations

[ajay]

I had the camera in my cart at BH but after seeing these posts and witnessing other users comments regarding autofocus and no way to save different configuration settings I decided not to purchase this camera. Just too many negatives for me. I just don't get Canon's logic...or lack there of.

[Django]

Hadn't read these posts, thanks @gt3rs for the feedback.

To be fair to Canon, it seems most of the R5C video 'issues' are also there on the C-line cameras.

The C-line AF is not as snappy as an EOS hybrid. It can't compete for sports/action.

Video playback is one by one, no quick scroll. Etc.

I understand how this could be jarring for EOS users but its something C-line users are familiar with.

Its true Canon should further integrate the two teams/OS's and merge the features a bit.

I guess you can feel its a gen-1 type product. For me none of those would be a deal breaker though.

I don't do sports/action. I guess R3 would probably be a better solution than R5C for such cases.

The battery situation however seems much worse than I thought.

@gt3rs Have you looked into the Titon base P-Tap kit? Seems tailored for the R5/R5C:

https://www.antonbauer.com/en/kit-my-camera/canon-eos-r5/ 

[gt3rs]

11 hours ago, ajay said:

I had the camera in my cart at BH but after seeing these posts and witnessing other users comments regarding autofocus and no way to save different configuration settings I decided not to purchase this camera. Just too many negatives for me. I just don't get Canon's logic...or lack there of.

So I did many test and the face tracking the R5c thanks to the Face Only mode is more reliable/usable for video than the R5. I did shoot a school theater (not my usual stuff) and with a 70-200 at 2.8 with even changing lights etc the Face AF worked almost perfectly and when it loses the Face the fact that it does not jump focus it does not ruin the shoot.

In pure speed R5 and R5c with the AF settings to the max speed/reactive they are exactly the same, I tested side by side with the same lens.
Now here is where my problem was the "large AF area" of the R5c is similar to the second smaller AF area of the R5 the one that I use the most for action and it turns out that R5c tend to stick to the BG and not refocus on the subject but surprisingly when using the smaller AF area the R5c works like the R5 in the second smaller area. Bottomline this seems to fix my issue.

Still it would be cool to have R5 AF engine animal, vehicle and all the other AF area at disposal but with this setup it seems to work for my stuff as I normal use either Face or the small area AF. 

Bottomline the camera is growing on me, but it could be just amazing if they would really share more between the two systems.

 

 

[gt3rs]

9 hours ago, Django said:

The battery situation however seems much worse than I thought.

@gt3rs Have you looked into the Titon base P-Tap kit? Seems tailored for the R5/R5C:

https://www.antonbauer.com/en/kit-my-camera/canon-eos-r5/ 

The problem of the above kit is that the coupler does not deliver enough voltage for 8k 50/60.

I found the best solution to use the FXLION One V Mount battery but using the USB-C port on a small rig V-Mount plate mounted on a Cage. It is really not my preferred solution to have a rig instead of a naked body but for people that use external monitors and tons of other things mine not but such bad solution. You can power a external screen from the same battery over D-Tap. Once somebody would build a coupler with d-tap that delivers 9v then I will simply switch the USB cable for the coupler.



 

[Emanuel]

The ultimate firmware update seems pretty sweet and delivers a new camera if we put it side by side with the C70, at least to my eyes:

 

[Emanuel]

I guess this one just posted also deserves to be placed in the right thread, I mean hence now here then:

 

[Emanuel]