Canon EOS R5C

[Andrew Reid]

On 5/18/2022 at 11:49 PM, PannySVHS said:

German testsite Slashcam. Very amazed, by the fact that the GH6 performed equally well as the R5C regarding dynamic range.

Here is a translation from their 5RC review, regarding the GH6 surprised them.:

"What's really amazing, however, is how well the winner from our last MFT dynamic showdown does: The Panasonic GH6 with Dynamic Boost can "only" come up with 6K, but otherwise delivers a thoroughly equal dynamic range. We will try to present you with more dynamic range comparisons in the next few weeks, which will hopefully result in a more differentiated picture of the current camera market."

 

 

 

Canon LOG showing an advantage here for me. Less noisy than Canon RAW and the GH6. Falls apart much later than N-LOG.

They should have tested V-LOG on the S1 though as that is the budget full frame king for dynamic range.

[PannySVHS]

They did a comparison with the S1 and S5, both sharing the same sensor, pipeline and sofore image, being indeed the dynamic range and latitude champs with Canon getting close and Nikon Z9 equalling it with its N-Raw flavours. All tests for video of course.

Nevertheless GH6 image in DGO mode is very impressive. Too bad it still has a few things left out in comparison to the two GH5 models, such as 2xDigi zoom or 1.4 crop for S16 coverage. No 2x digizoom for my S1 neither btw.

S5 is a steal for the image you get. Even lower price than a S1. S series still needs some grading love. But with that any look is achieveable. Natural light being the most "videoish condition", needing more effort than in lit enviroments imho.

[webrunner5]

Yeah but they have a goofy lens mount. You pretty much have to buy new lenses for them. So the initial cost is pretty steep.

 

 

[PannySVHS]

Don, you are very old school, b4 and PL loving man.;) L mount is highly adaptable just like Canon RF, Nikon Z and what not mounts. Lumix S5 with full HDMI would have been my dream camera. So close. You can get them used for 1200 EUR, S1 for similar prices.

With the GH5 I discovered a nasty blotch issue in VLog again. I have almost forgotten about it. Pink large blotches on skintones f.i. It was a well exposed shot, daylight, cloudy summerday, which I did last year for a shortfilm. Yesterday I was grading some of my older stuff away and building some digital emulsions and bang, GH5 reminded me of an issue I had found years ago with caucasian skin. Had forgotten about it.

[webrunner5]

I know you can adapt a lot of stuff but if you want to have the best luck with the system you need to buy native lenses for it. So, you have to basically start from scratch.

Sure, you have to do that with every system but damn when does it ever stop. I am not made of gold like you are lol. 😁

[hyalinejim]

12 hours ago, PannySVHS said:

Pink large blotches on skintones

I also noticed blotches (compression artefacts?) on flat areas of 60p GH5 footage that I didn't find in the same shot taken on a GH6. It was most noticeable in the first couple of frames of clips shot in long GOP, and not as noticeable but still present in subsequent frames. So if you're flicking through unedited clips then it definitely looks worse on frame 1 of each clip.

[Django]

Potato Jet just posted a super lengthy R5C review. Far from technical but pretty thorough, I learned a few things about the camera like how you can set a button to toggle on/off the EIS. I really like this extensive button customisation, that's a key feature on Canons that I've always valued.  His battery test results were also better than I expected even though you'll still clearly need some kind of external solution for a long day shoot. 

But now with R5's new firmware fixing the overheat, it has become a much more tempting option. For $1000 cheaper the R5 has IBIS, better battery life, fast photo/video switching, C1/C2 etc. 

R5C has all the video assist features and LUT import which is really helpful though. But losing IBIs feels like a giant step backwards, especially considering I mostly shoot EF primes with no IS.

And then there is the C70 with its DGO sensor, ND filters etc. So hard to pick what model to choose from right now.

 

[Emanuel]

39 minutes ago, Django said:

But now with R5's new firmware fixing the overheat, it has become a much more tempting option. For $1000 cheaper the R5 has IBIS, better battery life, fast photo/video switching, C1/C2 etc. 

R5C has all the video assist features and LUT import which is really helpful though. But losing IBIs feels like a giant step backwards (...)

The comparison tests I've seen don't tell me that, go figure...

And no 8K/60p...

[Django]

28 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

The comparison tests I've seen don't tell me that, go figure...

And no 8K/60p...

Well if you've got lens IS + EIS you might not see a huge difference when shooting wide/medium but if you're on EF primes mostly like I am then shooting handheld without EIS will be shaky. And to me that defeats a big part of going mirrorless. Plus it took so long for Canon cameras to get IBIS, I really don't feel like going back to not having it. 8K60p is of very little interest to me, I don't wanna deal with those file sizes. Things like shutter angle however are clutch on the field, as is magnify while recording etc.

I mean don't get me wrong, there is a lot to like about the R5C, I've been praising it since it was announced. But R5's 1.6 update does throw some shade at it and may even trump it in some scenarios.

[MrSMW]

8 hours ago, Django said:

8K60p is of very little interest to me, I don't wanna deal with those file sizes

Or me.

Until quite recently…

As a hybrid shooter, I am always looking at ways to capture more and specifically, capture more as efficiently as I can.

I have had a play with extracting stills from 4k video with mixed results. Sometimes they are great and sometimes less so.

There are times when having an 8k 60p mode with great tracking AF would be highly useful for me.

It’s those parts of the job where I need to shoot video and stills at exactly the same time.

Currently that is a 2 camera job, specifically; an S1R in hand shooting stills with an S1H on a tripod shooting video.

If I could shoot 8k 60p at these times, the only times when I need 2 cameras, I could reduce my hybrid camera need from 2 cameras + 2 lenses + 1 tripod to just 1 camera + 1 lens.

That is a massive efficiency move and eliminates the cost and devaluation of kit for this need by 50%.

I personally would not be concerned about the storage aspect because it would only be 10% max and the rest of the time, I would still just flip between stills and 4K 60p video.

Right now, I’d eliminate the R5c because of it’s lack of IBIS and because it’s too slow to flip modes, but R5 or Z9…

I’ve also eliminated the Sony A1 from this hypothetical list for a couple of reasons so there is only really 2 contenders for a new system for me, the old stalwarts Nikon or Canon.

I would only need 1 ‘beast’ camera in the line up, then just 2 smaller/cheaper units whose sole purpose would be to shoot 4K 60p statically and both manufacturers have these in their lineup.

Or wait a little longer and see what the next gen Lumix S line brings…which I am now hoping might be 8k 60p.

[Django]

Well if you need 8K60p specifically then that rules out the R5 as well. So you're left with Z9 for your specific requirements!

I'd also consider R3.. 6K60p which imo is a really good sweet spot.

[MrSMW]

Bum. I thought the R5 did 8k 60p...

Maybe I was thinking of the Z9, but they cost nearly double...

I'll take a look at the R3 but that's a bit of a pricey monster also.

Two things with the R3...

Thing A: Investment vs future-proofing. If I could get away with 6k stills (and I probably could), 8k would be better, especially for a longer term investment.

Thing B: Could I go back to 24mp... I currently shoot 47mp and though I'd happily go back to 24mp for candid stuff, for my more considered work, I don't know if I could. Or it would at least be a compromise...

So it looks like my current 'on paper' champion is the Z9 despite it's price as one of those paired up with some Z6ii's for static work would tick every single box I have. At a price.

With Canon, an R3 plus a pair of R7's would tick all boxes except 8k 60p but at a slightly lower cost.

I'm still going to wait and see what Panasonic do before I do anything as I have so much invested in an L Mount based system.

I suspect, when/if a new S camera is announced, it's more likely to be 6k rather than 8k on the basis we currently have 4k cropped (in camera) or 6k up to 30p with the S1H.

So maybe a jump to full sensor 6k 60p internally might be what they do and if the AF is up to snuff and they don't do anything totally stoopid like remove the IBIS (I don't think they will, they aren't that stoopid), then that could be of interest.

And ideally, with a 30mp min sensor for stills.

I think that could work...

I'll still be keeping an eye on Canon et al because ultimately, I don't care what badge it wears, just as long as it does what I need it to do.

L Mount does, but in a slightly bloated (multiple bodies and lenses to achieve something say a Z9 can with a single body and lens), roundabout way, that I have made work (to the best of it's and my ability) rather than because it does straight out of the box.

[Django]

Yeah I'm pretty brand agnostic too but ultimately its the lens system you're invested in that drives you into a particular ecosystem. I've been to every single company except Panasonic, because AF is critical to me in event photography.

I actually switched from Nikon to Canon when I was doing weddings specifically because of the AF system. I rented a 5D3, learned it in & out, and was hooked. The main thing was being able to toggle from single-shot to servo AF using the DoF preview button. That alone was a game changer. And like I said earlier, Canon still has the best button customisation like how R5C allows you to toggle the EIS on/off. 

These are things spec sheets won't tell you, but that make world difference on the field. I'm very curious about R3's eye-control AF. It sounds insane. Like you said whatever can help you be more efficient on a job is worth it. These are tools of the trade for us pros so specs, AF performance, UI, reliability are all equally important. 

The Z9 body does tick a lot of boxes but native lens options are kinda meh plus I don't know about Nikon ditching mechanical shutter. I've heard of banding issues and low max flash sync speeds so I dunno. Would need to rent one and put it through its paces if I were to consider one but the main problem with that camera is it is still on constant back-order. Some guy in Italy has been waiting on his since last November, crazy..

Pretty sure I'll be sticking with Canon, probably upgrade to an R5 or R5C. For high-end cine work, I'm seriously considering the Komodo. RF mount means compatibility with all my lenses, and the R3D raw is simply phenomenal.

[Simon Young]

6 minutes ago, Django said:

native lens options are kinda meh

I would get a Z9 mostly because of the incredible S-lens line-up. Beautiful lenses all of them - barely any focus breathing, weather sealed, fast accurate and silent autofocus and beautiful rendering. The Z 35mm f1.8 and Canon RF 35mm f1.8 are miles apart. And the Z 24-70 f2.8 is quite possibly the best 24-70 ever made.

[webrunner5]

I would be afraid of Nikon long term and heck even Panasonic. Somebody is going to go out of business down the road. Smartphones are putting more and more pressure on them. You sort of need a phone but not a camera in this day and age. I don't see how any of these companies can last just selling upscale items. I would think Canon, Sony will be the last two standing. 

 

[Django]

48 minutes ago, Simon Young said:

I would get a Z9 mostly because of the incredible S-lens line-up. Beautiful lenses all of them - barely any focus breathing, weather sealed, fast accurate and silent autofocus and beautiful rendering. The Z 35mm f1.8 and Canon RF 35mm f1.8 are miles apart. And the Z 24-70 f2.8 is quite possibly the best 24-70 ever made.

I'm sure those lenses are great but the line-up just feels limited compared to RF, which now has lot of third party lenses including cine glass. The RF 35mm f1.8 is also a much cheaper STM lens but a great offering considering it has IS and Macro for under 500. I don't even think Z lenses have IS?

[Ty Harper]

Well I bit the bullet and picked up a used R5C. It was about $500 US cheaper than what a used R5 goes for in these parts and came with a Anker powerbank + a 512GB Sandisk Pro cfexpress card I purchased for an extra $350. Coming from using C300/100s I will say that I really appreciate having that classic Cine menu in such a relatively small body. I also feel like for the first time pretty much future-proofed when it comes to my A cam - and I see myself growing and learning with the R5C for a long long time - but also see myself potentially getting an R5 much later down the line as a B-cam.

I am not a reviewer/tester at all so I won't be doing any of that stuff - but here are some early thoughts after screwing around with it for a weekend:

(i) The battery life is definitely a pain in the ass and while not a deal breaker for me - I can see why it would be for many. I currently have three LPE6NH batteries but compared to my run n gun days with my 5D MKIII w/ ML RAW or even my 1DC - I don't have the same confidence going into the field with just the cam and 4 or 5 batteries. Sure I have the Anker battery but that's super clunky and all the external battery options require some degree of rigging. I agree with others who think Canon should create a special battery grip that allows something like an LPE17 battery to power the R5C. I'll also say that youtuber CAMMACKEY has built my fav rig solution so far! 

(ii) The R5C definitely feels alot lighter than my 5D MKIII but the fan makes it essentially the same size/footprint. I say this only bcuz part of me was really hoping it could be more of a stealth camera (like the XT3/4) that I could bring on trips without drawing unwanted attention (particularly thieves, beach robbers etc) but that is def not the case (which makes something like the XT3/4 an option I'll still consider once it gets to the $700-$900CAN range!)

(iii) On the topic of stealth I'd love it if Canon released an RF version of it's 40mm pancake lens bcuz that feels like a great combo for those looking for a smaller run n gun footprint (sure I could pop on the adapter but with the EF 40mm pancake it ends up being about the same size as the RF 35mm so I'd prefer a true RF pancake.

(iv) DPAF/face tracking is class leading of course altho performance with Canon lenses seems to vary. I also noticed that the AF speed adjustment option isn't available for my 50mm f1.2 nor my 28mm f2.8 (IS) altho AF Response is available. So far the DPAF/face tracking works great with the 28mm but was more fiddly with the 50mm (although I acknowledge that I'm still researching optimal settings, etc)

(iv) Looking at the photo side and the feel of the images coming out of the R5C, I gotta say I prefer the IQ of my 5D MKIII. This is totally subjective, and I acknowledge it might just be a settings thing. It's also important to flag that the new CR3 files won't open in the default Preview application on older Mac OSX's. I use High Sierra with no plans of upgrading so I'll need to find a proper photo app.

(v) The touch screen is great but I still feel like I'll want a Ninja V.

I think that's it for now and thanks again to everyone on this forum for their thoughts on this cam and every other thing you've discussed over the years. I was really on the fence with the R5C vs the R5 but so far I feel like I made the right choice for me - although it really was the price that sealed the deal.

[Ty Harper]

9 minutes ago, Ty Harper said:

Well I bit the bullet and picked up a used R5C. It was about $500 US cheaper than what a used R5 goes for in these parts and came with a Anker powerbank + a 512GB Sandisk Pro cfexpress card I purchased for an extra $350. Coming from using C300/100s I will say that I really appreciate having that classic Cine menu in such a relatively small body. I also feel like for the first time pretty much future-proofed when it comes to my A cam - and I see myself growing and learning with the R5C for a long long time - but also see myself potentially getting an R5 much later down the line as a B-cam.

I am not a reviewer/tester at all so I won't be doing any of that stuff - but here are some early thoughts after screwing around with it for a weekend:

(i) The battery life is definitely a pain in the ass and while not a deal breaker for me - I can see why it would be for many. I currently have three LPE6NH batteries but compared to my run n gun days with my 5D MKIII w/ ML RAW or even my 1DC - I don't have the same confidence going into the field with just the cam and 4 or 5 batteries. Sure I have the Anker battery but that's super clunky and all the external battery options require some degree of rigging. I agree with others who think Canon should create a special battery grip that allows something like an LPE17 battery to power the R5C. I'll also say that youtuber CAMMACKEY has built my fav rig solution so far! 

(ii) The R5C definitely feels alot lighter than my 5D MKIII but the fan makes it essentially the same size/footprint. I say this only bcuz part of me was really hoping it could be more of a stealth camera (like the XT3/4) that I could bring on trips without drawing unwanted attention (particularly thieves, beach robbers etc) but that is def not the case (which makes something like the XT3/4 an option I'll still consider once it gets to the $700-$900CAN range!)

(iii) On the topic of stealth I'd love it if Canon released an RF version of it's 40mm pancake lens bcuz that feels like a great combo for those looking for a smaller run n gun footprint (sure I could pop on the adapter but with the EF 40mm pancake it ends up being about the same size as the RF 35mm so I'd prefer a true RF pancake.

(iv) DPAF/face tracking is class leading of course altho performance with Canon lenses seems to vary. I also noticed that the AF speed adjustment option isn't available for my 50mm f1.2 nor my 28mm f2.8 (IS) altho AF Response is available. So far the DPAF/face tracking works great with the 28mm but was more fiddly with the 50mm (although I acknowledge that I'm still researching optimal settings, etc)

(iv) Looking at the photo side and the feel of the images coming out of the R5C, I gotta say I prefer the IQ of my 5D MKIII. This is totally subjective, and I acknowledge it might just be a settings thing. It's also important to flag that the new CR3 files won't open in the default Preview application on older Mac OSX's. I use High Sierra with no plans of upgrading so I'll need to find a proper photo app.

(v) The touch screen is great but I still feel like I'll want a Ninja V.

I think that's it for now and thanks again to everyone on this forum for their thoughts on this cam and every other thing you've discussed over the years. I was really on the fence with the R5C vs the R5 but so far I feel like I made the right choice for me - although it really was the price that sealed the deal.

Sorry I meant to say I got the used R5C for $500 CAN more than what a used R5 goes for over here - so it felt well worth the extra money.

[MrSMW]

3 hours ago, Django said:

Yeah I'm pretty brand agnostic too but ultimately its the lens system you're invested in that drives you into a particular ecosystem.

For me it’s the combo of both.

The lens with the most appeal to me out there right now is the ‘one and done’ (for 90% of my work anyway) Tamron 35-150mm f2-2.8 in Sony e Mount.

However, Megadap do a Sony e to Nikon z adapter and I’ve seen the lens working extremely well on a Nikon Z9.

Not cheap and not exactly small or light, but a mega(dap) combo that ticks every ‘needs’ box for me.

But 8.5k+ cost is pushing it a bit even for me…

I think if that combo was around 5k and actually available with 24 hour shipping, I’d push the button.

But it ain’t so I sit on the fence because it’s not as if what I have doesn’t do the job I need it to do, just for the difference right now, I can’t make it swing! 🤪

[FHDcrew]

9 hours ago, MrSMW said:

However, Megadap do a Sony e to Nikon z adapter and I’ve seen the lens working extremely well on a Nikon Z9.

Yeah the Z mount is strangely really the best option when it comes to adapting glass. You have the following options, all supporting continuous video AF

 

Nikon F Mount - Nikon FTZ & FTZ II

Canon EF - Fringer EF-NZ

Sony E Mount - Megadap ETZ21 & Techart TZE-02

Nearly any manual lens - Megadap MTZ-11

 

I mean I can’t think of another system with all these options.  And you still have the cheap viltrox autofocusing primes, or Nikon’s pricey but excellent S-line, if you want solid native Z mount glass  

Other systems may have even more native options to choose from, but they don’t have such a wide variety of near-native-performing adapting options. 
 

The Fringer EF-NZ is actually interesting, because you can pair it with quality sigma art glass and get good AF performance. Then you can turn around and buy a Sony plus the MC11 adapter. Now that same glass works on your new Sony camera.  And then you can get a canon R5 or R5C or C70, use canon’s EF adapter, and keep the same lenses. Now you just went through three separate brands, maintaining autofocus functionality, all without ever selling your sigma glass.