Canon EOS R5C

[Andrew Reid]

17 minutes ago, Trek of Joy said:

If the digital stabilization is anything like Sony's, it can be much better than IBIS in many cases - with the crop caveat.

Disappointed no internal ND's. But looking at the spec, heat management is really holding the R5 back LOL! If this was available when the R5 launched, I would own one and a regular R5. I was ready to switch until the overheating reared its ugly head. Oh well...

Chris

I see it repeated a lot that heat held the EOS R5 back.

Did you not witness the explosive climax of the story though?

With the battery pull trick, timers, not reading temp until a firmware update, 2 hours of continuous 8K, Philip bloom's cats escaping a fire, Magic Lantern, EXIF data, wi-fi apps and all the rest?

How can people be so forgetful?!

[PannySVHS]

It's not a cinema camera with a micro hdmi, unless you wanna use calibrated cinema quality glass from rental houses. Then you can have your focus pulled using measuring tape and super precise blocking at f8 in FF mode. But then with that kinda budget the director might still want to monitor the frame to see what that 8k resolution is capturing.

Micro Hdmi, what an odd but also Canon like decision. Rather get an Ursa mini 12k for 1500 USD more.

[Video Hummus]

I like the concept of the R5C. It’s the better FX3 from Canon. No IBIS is a slight bummer but RF lens IS + digital EIS will get the job done for static handheld. All the rest of the features are great to see. I wonder if the DR comparison with R5 is exactly the same. 

[Django]

Agreed, R5C is worthy of C line branding, FX3 not imo. 

From Gordons test I don't see a DR enhancement but noise at 3200 ISO is definitely cleaned up.

Also 4K60 is oversampled whereas it seemed soft and aliased on R5.

IBIS aside, R5C is a really substantial jump in features/specs for video shooters.

[herein2020]

9 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

I like the concept of the R5C. It’s the better FX3 from Canon. No IBIS is a slight bummer but RF lens IS + digital EIS will get the job done for static handheld. All the rest of the features are great to see. I wonder if the DR comparison with R5 is exactly the same. 

 

If you watch the Gordon Lang video you will see the digital IS looks just as bad as it does on the C70. Very disappointing. I've shot with the S5 and the EF 24-105mm at 105mm and it looked way better with IBIS on than Gordon's handheld test at 105mm.

[PannySVHS]

14 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

I like the concept of the R5C.

Micro Hdmi means, no monitoring for your director or focus puller. I don't like that at all.

4500usd will buy the ongoing camera owner a brandnew Ursa Broadcast 2G with the sensor from the Pocket 6k, nds, sdi, evf, shouldermount, b4,- ef and pl- mount. It sells for 3500 brandnew without the evf. For the difference of 1000usd one could get a used Lumix S5 or for a bit more a used S1R with 45mpix photo love.

[amweber21]

13 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

I like the concept of the R5C. It’s the better FX3 from Canon. No IBIS is a slight bummer but RF lens IS + digital EIS will get the job done for static handheld. All the rest of the features are great to see. I wonder if the DR comparison with R5 is exactly the same. 

Is digital EIS even possible while shooting raw? I would think not, but I haven't seen it specified. 

[herein2020]

If this chart is accurate then RAW images out of the R5c are only 10-bit vs 14-bit out of the R5.....that could make a big difference in the post processing latitude for RAW images. It is hard to believe this is accurate....but if so that could be a hint of the cripple hammer showing on the stills side.

 

https://www.diyphotography.net/canon-has-officially-announced-its-video-centric-eos-r5c-and-this-beefy-beast-costs-4500/

[MrSMW]

I hope both of the customers for this camera each buy one.

#salestargetgoals

[Django]

33 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

Micro Hdmi means, no monitoring for your director or focus puller. I don't like that at all.

4500usd will buy the ongoing camera owner a brandnew Ursa Broadcast 2G with the sensor from the Pocket 6k, nds, sdi, evf, shouldermount, b4,- ef and pl- mount. It sells for 3500 brandnew without the evf. For the difference of 1000usd one could get a used Lumix S5 or for a bit more a used S1R with 45mpix photo love.

As much as I hate micro HDMI, it does work (especially with a cage offering lock support).

But I just don't think the R5C is going to be aimed at shooters with full crews ( focus pullers, directors etc ).

Most likely one-man run & gun that needs photo/video inside a single cam..

[ND64]

It needs fan and power bank to do what Z9 will do next month with just a firmware update! But Canon never need state of the art sensors and processors. The badge is enough.

[Spectromagix]

18 minutes ago, Django said:

As much as I hate micro HDMI, it does work (especially with a cage offering lock support).

But I just don't think the R5C is going to be aimed at shooters with full crews ( focus pullers, directors etc ).

Most likely one-man run & gun that needs photo/video inside a single cam..

How do you do run and gun without IBIS? You know.. I’ve come on here for years and listened to Andrew ask for the one thing that would have made Canon a champ all these years - all we wanted was a decent upgrade to the 5D Mark II - a perfect hybrid camera video shooter. All those years ago, Canon saw the potential when Hollywood was actually utilizing 5D Mark IIs on set. But rather than capitalizing on this moment and continue to create consumer-grade products that were so good - they could be used in Hollywood, Canon instead went the other direction - chose to “monetize” those Hollywood customers with Cinema EOS - purpose -built products specific for video, and much more expensive too!

In 12 long years Canon failed to recognize the need for a consumer-grade hybrid - a proper update to the 5D Mark II. Today - More than ever before - photographers are becoming videographers - it’s just the nature of the business. People still take photos, but people want video. 

In those last 12 years, Canon has only released two more products that are as “perfect” as the 5D Mark II as a hybrid shooter - the 1DC and the 1DX Mark III. Every other product Canon has released has had some sort of diminishing return - what we call “the cripple hammer”. But that cripple hammer is mostly thanks to Cinema EOS, and the mental gymnastics Canon continues to take their customers through in order to “protect” this Cinema market.

Yet I haven’t heard of any of those “Hollywood” customers purchasing Cinema EOS products - I certainly don’t see them at the top of the sales charts. Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure ARRI and RED are more popular at the Hollywood level?

So then why the need for Cinema EOS? To me it’s just a ploy from Canon to force you into buying one product for video and one product for stills.

Knowing this past history I went into this R5C announcement with expectations that IBIS would likely be missing - looks like I was right.

Without IBIS I just don’t know who this camera is aimed for. In hindsight I guess we should’ve seen this a mile away. We have the C70 and the R5 - had Canon made a “perfect” solution then why would anyone buy the C70 or R5 moving forward?

And so perhaps the issue is that Canon has too many products with no focus? It’s no wonder that they’re losing money. Why do consumers always have to trade off with Canon in this manner? Especially when no one has to trade off when it comes to Sony or NIkon.

My current camera is a 5D Mark III. I haven’t upgraded not because of cost but because Canon refuses to release a perfect camera. And if I’m spending $10K on the camera, lens, batteries, battery grip, adapters and CFExpress cards - all required for the R5C - then we must demand perfection. 
 

Perhaps the R5 Mark II will be the true spiritual successor to the 5D Mark II? Would certainly make sense? But how many more years do I have to wait? And what features will continue to be omitted as part of a stupid effort to keep Cinema EOS “protected”?

 

 

[gt3rs]

58 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

If this chart is accurate then RAW images out of the R5c are only 10-bit vs 14-bit out of the R5.....that could make a big difference in the post processing latitude for RAW images. It is hard to believe this is accurate....but if so that could be a hint of the cripple hammer showing on the stills side.

 

https://www.diyphotography.net/canon-has-officially-announced-its-video-centric-eos-r5c-and-this-beefy-beast-costs-4500/

I really think is wrong it does 12bit RAW video why it would do only 10bit RAW photo.... is a typo imo

[PannySVHS]

14 minutes ago, gt3rs said:

I really think is wrong it does 12bit RAW video why it would do only 10bit RAW photo....

The supposely wrong info was taken from the bh website. The author from diyphoto stated that in the comment section. 10bit photo raw is what my lumix g6 did in electronic shutter mode, lol. Must be wrong.

[herein2020]

57 minutes ago, Spectromagix said:

How do you do run and gun without IBIS? You know.. I’ve come on here for years and listened to Andrew ask for the one thing that would have made Canon a champ all these years - all we wanted was a decent upgrade to the 5D Mark II - a perfect hybrid camera video shooter. All those years ago, Canon saw the potential when Hollywood was actually utilizing 5D Mark IIs on set. But rather than capitalizing on this moment and continue to create consumer-grade products that were so good - they could be used in Hollywood, Canon instead went the other direction - chose to “monetize” those Hollywood customers with Cinema EOS - purpose -built products specific for video, and much more expensive too!

In 12 long years Canon failed to recognize the need for a consumer-grade hybrid - a proper update to the 5D Mark II. Today - More than ever before - photographers are becoming videographers - it’s just the nature of the business. People still take photos, but people want video. 

In those last 12 years, Canon has only released two more products that are as “perfect” as the 5D Mark II as a hybrid shooter - the 1DC and the 1DX Mark III. Every other product Canon has released has had some sort of diminishing return - what we call “the cripple hammer”. But that cripple hammer is mostly thanks to Cinema EOS, and the mental gymnastics Canon continues to take their customers through in order to “protect” this Cinema market.

Yet I haven’t heard of any of those “Hollywood” customers purchasing Cinema EOS products - I certainly don’t see them at the top of the sales charts. Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure ARRI and RED are more popular at the Hollywood level?

So then why the need for Cinema EOS? To me it’s just a ploy from Canon to force you into buying one product for video and one product for stills.

Knowing this past history I went into this R5C announcement with expectations that IBIS would likely be missing - looks like I was right.

Without IBIS I just don’t know who this camera is aimed for. In hindsight I guess we should’ve seen this a mile away. We have the C70 and the R5 - had Canon made a “perfect” solution then why would anyone buy the C70 or R5 moving forward?

And so perhaps the issue is that Canon has too many products with no focus? It’s no wonder that they’re losing money. Why do consumers always have to trade off with Canon in this manner? Especially when no one has to trade off when it comes to Sony or NIkon.

My current camera is a 5D Mark III. I haven’t upgraded not because of cost but because Canon refuses to release a perfect camera. And if I’m spending $10K on the camera, lens, batteries, battery grip, adapters and CFExpress cards - all required for the R5C - then we must demand perfection. 
 

Perhaps the R5 Mark II will be the true spiritual successor to the 5D Mark II? Would certainly make sense? But how many more years do I have to wait? And what features will continue to be omitted as part of a stupid effort to keep Cinema EOS “protected”?

 

 

 

I 100% agree, that's why I still have a 5DIV and went with an S5 vs an R5. How can you run and gun without IBIS? I went full circle, used to use monopods like a crutch, then discovered gimbals and tried to use them for everything, then re-discovered hand held with IBIS and now I shoot 90% of my video work for events, promo videos, etc. handheld. I skipped the GH5s and the C70 because they didn't have IBIS and it looks like I'm going to skip the R5c as well.  IBIS is a big deal for people like me who shoot 50/50 photos and videos, mainly solo and simply don't have time for external stabilization.

I get so many gigs where they hire me for photography and then upgrade to a highlight reel for the event and right now its a real pain running back and forth to my staging location to switch from the 5D to the S5 not to mention I am risking getting my equipment stolen; all I need is a single body that I can handhold for both photos and video for events like that.

[amweber21]

23 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

The supposely wrong info was taken from the bh website. The author from diyphoto stated that in the comment section. 10bit photo raw is what my lumix g6 did in electronic shutter mode, lol. Must be wrong.

They must be referencing the HEIF format in stills. Only thing that makes sense. 

[Django]

Quote

How do you do run and gun without IBIS?

Same way people have been doing it before IBIS became the norm. 

1 hour ago, Spectromagix said:

In those last 12 years, Canon has only released two more products that are as “perfect” as the 5D Mark II as a hybrid shooter - the 1DC and the 1DX Mark III. Every other product Canon has released has had some sort of diminishing return - what we call “the cripple hammer”. But that cripple hammer is mostly thanks to Cinema EOS, and the mental gymnastics Canon continues to take their customers through in order to “protect” this Cinema market.

Yet I haven’t heard of any of those “Hollywood” customers purchasing Cinema EOS products - I certainly don’t see them at the top of the sales charts. Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure ARRI and RED are more popular at the Hollywood level?

So then why the need for Cinema EOS? To me it’s just a ploy from Canon to force you into buying one product for video and one product for stills.

..yet both the 1DC & 1DX3 haven't got IBIS. 

R3 & R5C seem to me like much better hybrid options.

As for Cinema EOS products. They've been very successful from the start as much more affordable and practical options than ARRI/RED. 

FYI many Academy Awards in documentary category use Canon Cinema gear:

https://www.canon-europe.com/pro/news/canon-filmed-oscar-nominees-2020/

I also don't really understand why Canon always get singled-out when Sony also segment their Alpha & FX line in similar if not more crippled way. No Alpha has RAW or video assist tools, not even the FX3. 

[ade towell]

No more overheating and getting proper exposure controls are big improvements over the R5 and worth the fairly small price increase for many.

8k 60p needing external power is a bit of a gotcha though, keeping the horrible micro HDMI for a video orientated camera is criminal and losing IBIS is a huge disappointment - to me anyway.

There's also talk of the AF for video being the lesser quality dpaf version 1 as in C70 standard rather than what folk have become accustomed to with the dpaf version 2 on recent stills cameras such as R5, R6

One step forward 2 steps back in some ways, classic Canon wanting you to buy both R5 derivatives

[Django]

1 hour ago, ade towell said:

There's also talk of the AF for video being the lesser quality dpaf version 1 as in C70 standard rather than what folk have become accustomed to with the dpaf version 2 on recent stills cameras such as R5, R6

One step forward 2 steps back in some ways, classic Canon wanting you to buy both R5 derivatives

I don't think it's that. Of course there is some segmentation but really what Canon have done with the R5C is interesting: the photo side is EOS R stills menu/specs and the video side is EOS C. 

I honestly think this is the right way to go and a major shift in hybrid cameras up until now. 

All other brands mostly have common OS menu/specs for both stills/video.

Again Sony were the laziest ever imo with their FX3 that is purely a rehoused A7S3.

 

[herein2020]

1 hour ago, Django said:

Same way people have been doing it before IBIS became the norm. 

..yet both the 1DC & 1DX3 haven't got IBIS. 

R3 & R5C seem to me like much better hybrid options.

As for Cinema EOS products. They've been very successful from the start as much more affordable and practical options than ARRI/RED. 

FYI many Academy Awards in documentary category use Canon Cinema gear:

https://www.canon-europe.com/pro/news/canon-filmed-oscar-nominees-2020/

I also don't really understand why Canon always get singled-out when Sony also segment their Alpha & FX line in similar if not more crippled way. No Alpha has RAW or video assist tools, not even the FX3. 

That's like saying what did people do before AF came along......the same thing I am doing now with MF and the S5...making it work, having to throw away what otherwise would be useable footage, fighting to keep things in focus especially when it is on a gimbal, etc. 

IBIS is the same scenario...before IBIS you had to do simpler handheld camera movements, hope warp stabilizer worked in post, use stabilizers more etc. Just because you can work without IBIS doesn't mean you should have to after paying $10K plus to switch to what should be a hybrid camera. Maybe I am shakier than the average person but all I know is that my S5 makes even complex movements like crane, tilt, dolly, truck, etc. look smooth which are impossible movements for me without it.

I know a lot of people may single out Canon vs Sony but personally I've never owned a Sony and dislike nearly everything about them so for me Canon is still ahead of the Sony game regardless of their shortcomings.

1 hour ago, ade towell said:

No more overheating and getting proper exposure controls are big improvements over the R5 and worth the fairly small price increase for many.

8k 60p needing external power is a bit of a gotcha though, keeping the horrible micro HDMI for a video orientated camera is criminal and losing IBIS is a huge disappointment - to me anyway.

I like the price, no overheating, the photography features and don't think the 8K60P is a big deal especially since I would probably never use that resolution and if I wanted to I already have an external USB-C power setup that I can use. I don't really care about the micro HDMI port either since I never use an external recorder or monitor. So I really think Canon hit this out of the park except for the missing IBIS

 

1 hour ago, ade towell said:

There's also talk of the AF for video being the lesser quality dpaf version 1 as in C70 standard rather than what folk have become accustomed to with the dpaf version 2 on recent stills cameras such as R5, R6

One step forward 2 steps back in some ways, classic Canon wanting you to buy both R5 derivatives

Now THAT is something I have been wondering....there has been so little talk about this amazing AF that Canon raved about in the R5 that I really wondered what the AF options are for video in the R5c. The C70 from what I've seen seems to have pretty terrible AF, if Canon chose to use that AF version in the R5c that would be a big time swing of the cripple hammer. I was wondering how they would integrate all of the new AF options into the Cinema OS.

I would even go so far as to wonder if they even used the DPAF v1 for the photography side of the camera as well.