Canon EOS R5C

[Xavier Plagaro Mussard]

I hate Canon marketing tactics, but the truth is this R5C will sell like hot biscuits at 4500€. Canons are not the only cameras with thermal limits, to have no recording limit, the 8K, if they don't destroy the image quality, the camera will sell. Plus Canon makes money with the lenses.  

[ade towell]

13 minutes ago, Django said:

I don't think it's that. Of course there is some segmentation but really what Canon have done with the R5C is interesting: the photo side is EOS R stills menu/specs and the video side is EOS C. 

I honestly think this is the right way to go and a major shift in hybrid cameras up until now. 

All other brands mostly have common OS menu/specs for both stills/video.

Again Sony were the laziest ever imo with their FX3 that is purely a rehoused A7S3.

 

Hmm I agree that using the video OS and it's exposure tools etc is a good thing but not when the AF quality takes such a big hit.

[Django]

14 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

That's like saying what did people do before AF came along......

Right except no cine cam actually yet still has IBIS.. well except for FX3 but again it's really just a re-housed A7S3.

7 minutes ago, ade towell said:

Hmm I agree that using the video OS and it's exposure tools etc is a good thing but not when the AF quality takes such a big hit.

the video AF seems to be the same as any C line camera. meaning no animal AF etc. 

 

The bottom line imo is that this camera may not be the best hybrid (then again which one is?) but it's the closest thing to a stills cam + cine line cam fusioned.

[ade towell]

By all accounts Canon Cinema cameras have fairly poor AF compared to their stills cameras such as the R5. I'd say that was a backward step

[BenEricson]

2 hours ago, Spectromagix said:

Yet I haven’t heard of any of those “Hollywood” customers purchasing Cinema EOS products - I certainly don’t see them at the top of the sales charts. Maybe I’m wrong, but I’m pretty sure ARRI and RED are more popular at the Hollywood level?

I just don't think the Canon Cinema cameras are there in terms of skin tone, color depth, and dynamic range. Don't get me wrong, it looks great... But they're kind of cheating the skin tones. There's this kind of clay look, similar to the processing the iPhone does. I own the C70 and I notice this too. This is great for a lot of applications, but even with "8k raw" this is still the same image since the C300 Mkii. It is not leaps and bounds better.

That being said, eye tracking, 10 bit internal, dual ISO, full frame sensor. All of this is incredible to have. I think people need to pick the camera that makes sense for their shooting style. This is a killer gimbal or second camera. Obviously. 

The sun clips the same as it has since... probably any c-log on any Canon EOS camera.

[herein2020]

26 minutes ago, Django said:

Right except no cine cam actually yet still has IBIS.. well except for FX3 but again it's really just a re-housed A7S3.

the video AF seems to be the same as any C line camera. meaning no animal AF etc. 

 

The bottom line imo is that this camera may not be the best hybrid (then again which one is?) but it's the closest thing to a stills cam + cine line cam fusioned.

Oh I agree, but no other Cinema camera was so specifically targeted towards hybrid shooters. Kai's video shows more awful handheld footage, the electronic IS just looks so jittery even after the crop; even when he was holding the camera stationary you could see jitter in the footage.

If the only way to get smooth footage with this camera is by using stabilizers then it is a complete fail as a hybrid camera in my book.  All the codecs in the world don't matter if the footage looks like what I've seen so far for handheld use. I already have a C200 for locked down tripod work, I don't need a $10K+ camera system that I can't shoot handheld.

 

 

 

[Django]

17 minutes ago, herein2020 said:

Oh I agree, but no other Cinema camera was so specifically targeted towards hybrid shooters. Kai's video shows more awful handheld footage, the electronic IS just looks so jittery even after the crop; even when he was holding the camera stationary you could see jitter in the footage.

If the only way to get smooth footage with this camera is by using stabilizers then it is a complete fail as a hybrid camera in my book.  All the codecs in the world don't matter if the footage looks like what I've seen so far for handheld use. I already have a C200 for locked down tripod work, I don't need a $10K+ camera system that I can't shoot handheld.

Right, well no IBIS so yeah guess that deal breaks the R5C for you.. maybe go for FX3 or S1H? 😉 

[Oliver Daniel]

Very beastly impressive specs here, but you do have to debate how you’d be able to use this camera to its full potential for a lot of work (the 8k 60 in CRAW). If it had ProRes LT internal, it would be an absolute storm. 

Still very appealing and promising for the camera market. 

Even though I like the Canon image better - from the looks of it, my hunch is the A7S3 is still the better video workhorse. That thing just works. Much more manageable file sizes, better DR and affordable lens options (you cannot ignore the cost of RF lenses in the price). Plus 4k / 120 (a big feature) is not compromised at all. 

I think it would be wise to wait for the market to move if you really need 8k soon. Also if you can’t wait, there’s a Nikon Z9 to consider with internal ProRes. 

More importantly, I’d like to see more usability and codec options in these cameras rather than more K’s. Hybrids with internal ND’s, ProRes, better audio, larger LCD screens, better battery life, better menus, better “feel” to the image texture. Less need to rig. 

[kye]

R5c finally explained....

Now I understand.

[Video Hummus]

No camera is perfect. I think this is certainly a better effort than what Sony did with the FX3. There is Cinema RAW in there at roughly 3:1, 6:1, and 10:1 compression. There is DPAF v2 with object, face, head, eye detection. Oversampled 4K from 8K up to 60p. 8K60p RAW is there but with need of external PD power via USB-C (not ideal but it is there).

The R5C is an imperfect step forward but one in the right direction imho. It’s a proper cinema camera in a Large mirrorless form factor. The FX3 doesn’t even have shutter angle for fucks sake let alone false color. So here we are: the non-overheating R5 everybody wanted WITH full fledge EOS Cinema mode and people are still not happy.

Perhaps it’s the S1H people wanted without the garbage AF?…With internal RAW to boot and even better exposure tools? No IBIS but I’ll take that over out of focus footage or being stuck to MF for everything.

I’m excited. Let’s see what Sony does. Let’s see if Nikon can actually pull it off with Z6/7 mark 3. MF cinema from Fuji? PDAf from panasonic? Hell will freeze over but we can dream right?

[Video Hummus]

38 minutes ago, Oliver Daniel said:

More importantly, I’d like to see more usability and codec options in these cameras rather than more K’s. Hybrids with internal ND’s, ProRes, better audio, larger LCD screens, better battery life, better menus, better “feel” to the image texture. Less need to rig

Agreed. Perfect camera would be a solid 6K camera, AF, internal ND, better audio, 4-5 inch bright LCD, and decent codecs and good DR

[kye]

3 minutes ago, Video Hummus said:

No camera is perfect. I think this is certainly a better effort than what Sony did with the FX3. There is Cinema RAW in there at roughly 3:1, 6:1, and 10:1 compression. There is DPAF v2 with object, face, head, eye detection. Oversampled 4K from 8K up to 60p. 8K60p RAW is there but with need of external PD power via USB-C (not ideal but it is there).

The R5C is an imperfect step forward but one in the right direction imho. It’s a proper cinema camera in a Large mirrorless form factor. The FX3 doesn’t even have shutter angle for fucks sake let alone false color. So here we are: the non-overheating R5 everybody wanted WITH full fledge EOS Cinema mode and people are still not happy.

Perhaps it’s the S1H people wanted without the garbage AF?…With internal RAW to boot and even better exposure tools? No IBIS but I’ll take that over out of focus footage or being stuck to MF for everything.

I’m excited. Let’s see what Sony does. Let’s see if Nikon can actually pull it off with Z6/7 mark 3. MF cinema from Fuji? PDAf from panasonic? Hell will freeze over but we can dream right?

The form-factor and external power requirements will make it less attractive to productions that can afford a cinema camera like a C200 or C300, and the lack of IBIS will make it less attractive to low-budget single-shooters.  

That leaves it targeting this strange middle-ground that manufacturers seem to be trying to understand.

Personally I think the "step in the right direction" sentiment is short-sighted.  Compare the R5c with the 5Dmk2 - a 17 year difference.  The problems that the 5D2 had haven't been fully fixed by basically any Canon camera since.  The "progress" being made has been on things that no-one needs, and the sacrifices made are the things that have always been desirable.

I get that we all have different requirements, and things like AF vs MF and RAW vs compressed etc are dependent on the situation, but try and make an argument that 8K60 is more important than, well, anything....

[Andrew Reid]

Counter hype-piece

 

[projectwoofer]

The lack of 8K 240fps RAW makes it a no go for me. I need to future proof my work.

[gt3rs]

1 hour ago, Oliver Daniel said:

Very beastly impressive specs here, but you do have to debate how you’d be able to use this camera to its full potential for a lot of work (the 8k 60 in CRAW). If it had ProRes LT internal, it would be an absolute storm. 

Still very appealing and promising for the camera market. 

Even though I like the Canon image better - from the looks of it, my hunch is the A7S3 is still the better video workhorse. That thing just works. Much more manageable file sizes, better DR and affordable lens options (you cannot ignore the cost of RF lenses in the price). Plus 4k / 120 (a big feature) is not compromised at all. 

I think it would be wise to wait for the market to move if you really need 8k soon. Also if you can’t wait, there’s a Nikon Z9 to consider with internal ProRes. 

More importantly, I’d like to see more usability and codec options in these cameras rather than more K’s. Hybrids with internal ND’s, ProRes, better audio, larger LCD screens, better battery life, better menus, better “feel” to the image texture. Less need to rig. 

Z9 ProRes is capped at 4k not even DCI. R5c has XF-AVC that is as fast as prores and is also capped at 4k but DCI. 

If all the Canon cinema cameras (other than the C700) can do XF-AVC why should this one need ProRes?

[PannySVHS]

@projectwoofer
Well, it does give you that but only out of the micro hdmi.😊 That's sick, all that huge data through that tiny micro hdmi port. 

But seriously, a 4999 EUR camera without a professional monitoring solution. I mean, i really expected a sdi port. The BSH1 has it , though no FF 4k50p and no internal raw.

[gt3rs]

Why is not an Arri Alexa in this body but with AF and 8k 240 is beyond any logic.... for this price it should be the minimum.

 

Why people don't download some CRLs 8k and try in Resolve before complaining that is not workable. Of course if you want to record hours and hours you will not use it but then there is finally XF-AVC in this camera that will do it, but you want to squeez out the max you can really work with CRL especially the LT version.

[BenEricson]

3 hours ago, herein2020 said:

Oh I agree, but no other Cinema camera was so specifically targeted towards hybrid shooters. Kai's video shows more awful handheld footage, the electronic IS just looks so jittery even after the crop; even when he was holding the camera stationary you could see jitter in the footage.

If the only way to get smooth footage with this camera is by using stabilizers then it is a complete fail as a hybrid camera in my book.  All the codecs in the world don't matter if the footage looks like what I've seen so far for handheld use. I already have a C200 for locked down tripod work, I don't need a $10K+ camera system that I can't shoot handheld.

 

 

 

Look at how this idiot is shooting though... There is literally an electronic EVF. Using that alone would make footage probably twice as smooth.

EVF with any IS lens would be totally fine. I've done it with my C70. The main issue is lack of EVF for stability on the C70.

[kaylee]

13 hours ago, kye said:

I'd say "what the f* did I just watch" but I only made it to 2:27s.  I haven't seen acting that bad in a looooong time.

same 🤣

[herein2020]

3 hours ago, Django said:

Right, well no IBIS so yeah guess that deal breaks the R5C for you.. maybe go for FX3 or S1H? 😉 

 

Actually I will sit back and keep using what I have and watch the reviews, maybe even rent it when it is generally available, so I haven't completely given up hope; those rental rates for the C70 have been stubbornly high though so this probably will be high as well.

 

2 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

No camera is perfect. I think this is certainly a better effort than what Sony did with the FX3. There is Cinema RAW in there at roughly 3:1, 6:1, and 10:1 compression. There is DPAF v2 with object, face, head, eye detection. Oversampled 4K from 8K up to 60p. 8K60p RAW is there but with need of external PD power via USB-C (not ideal but it is there).

Perhaps it’s the S1H people wanted without the garbage AF?…With internal RAW to boot and even better exposure tools? No IBIS but I’ll take that over out of focus footage or being stuck to MF for everything.

 

You nailed it, I would take 6K with IBIS, internal ND's, better audio, and all of the R5 photography features any day over this. Of course that does lead you right back to the S1H but with better AF and no IBIS.

 

2 hours ago, Video Hummus said:

No camera is perfect. I think this is certainly a better effort than what Sony did with the FX3. There is Cinema RAW in there at roughly 3:1, 6:1, and 10:1 compression. There is DPAF v2 with object, face, head, eye detection. Oversampled 4K from 8K up to 60p. 8K60p RAW is there but with need of external PD power via USB-C (not ideal but it is there).

 

Are you sure it has DPAF v2 for video as well? Rumors are already spreading that this is not true and that the AF is like the C70 at least for video, I am waiting for better reviews on that one. I also am waiting to see if the exposure tools and horizon level disappear when you hit record...a major pet peeve of mine when I tested the R6.

 

52 minutes ago, BenEricson said:

Look at how this idiot is shooting though... There is literally an electronic EVF. Using that alone would make footage probably twice as smooth.

EVF with any IS lens would be totally fine. I've done it with my C70. The main issue is lack of EVF for stability on the C70.

I agree, his form was horrid and not a good representation at all but Gordon Lang did a better test and it was still jittery. I feel like the digital IS tries too hard or the proper logic just isn't quite there yet kind of like using warp stabilizer but with the wrong settings. I am hoping it could be greatly improved with a FW update if they manage to achieve feature parity with IBIS using digital IS then that would be perfect.

I do need it to work without the EVF though, I never use the EVF for video, I shoot a lot of low angles and rarely shoulder height so I need it to be able to produce smooth footage handheld with just a cage and side handle like the S5 does. Plus I just hate using EVF's, the backscreen for video and OVF for photography is so much more natural to me.