MrSMW Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 OK, I have decided to try and make log work rather than the Natural profile I have been using to date for both the S1H and S5 footage. There's a ton of (often conflicting) info out there and I'm sure I'll get a few varied responses here, but it's worth the ask. For context, I shoot weddings and am looking to produce a filmic (as in slightly nostalgic film-like) cinematic end result and tend to prefer a more muted and pastel palette, but with an emphasis on subtle rather than "I slapped on this LUT I bought off ETSY" look. I've been using the gamut conversion LUT which quite a few rave about as possibly the best starting point, but then where? I'm also trying to avoid simply buying a whole lot of shit just to try it and some of it is quite pricey just for that purpose. I use Premiere if it makes a difference. I read good things about Film Convert, but maybe it's just hype, I don't know. Interested to hear and hands on experience from S1/5 log users. Cheers in advance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
projectwoofer Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 Ok, I don’t claim to be a professional nor am I shooting weddings but I very much like what I see from S5 VLog through emotive color S1Alex LogC conversion then fed to Film Convert. Just a thought… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 28 minutes ago, projectwoofer said: Ok, I don’t claim to be a professional nor am I shooting weddings but I very much like what I see from S5 VLog through emotive color S1Alex LogC conversion then fed to Film Convert. Just a thought… How/what do you use in Film Convert? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 2 hours ago, MrSMW said: OK, I have decided to try and make log work rather than the Natural profile I have been using to date for both the S1H and S5 footage. There's a ton of (often conflicting) info out there and I'm sure I'll get a few varied responses here, but it's worth the ask. For context, I shoot weddings and am looking to produce a filmic (as in slightly nostalgic film-like) cinematic end result and tend to prefer a more muted and pastel palette, but with an emphasis on subtle rather than "I slapped on this LUT I bought off ETSY" look. I've been using the gamut conversion LUT which quite a few rave about as possibly the best starting point, but then where? I'm also trying to avoid simply buying a whole lot of shit just to try it and some of it is quite pricey just for that purpose. I use Premiere if it makes a difference. I read good things about Film Convert, but maybe it's just hype, I don't know. Interested to hear and hands on experience from S1/5 log users. Cheers in advance. My recommendation is to invest a bit of time, and if you're making money then it's an investment, and put in a bit of work. Here's what I would suggest: Go through a few weddings and pull a selection of the type of shots you typically get onto a single timeline. ie, some day, some night, some close-ups of different skintones, some high-key, some low, some with super-saturated colours, etc Put an adjustment layer (or something you can colour grade in) over the top of all the clips Duplicate that timeline and grade it using every method you can imagine....... try every LUT you can get your hands on - even if they're obviously "wrong" (eg, try the ARRI 709 LUT, the Canon one, etc etc). FilmConvert (and it's competitors) typically have free trial versions you can use, in those try every film stock emulation. Etc etc. For each copy of the timeline you make: Apply the LUT / simulation Adjust the overall contrast to suit your footage (different LUTs and stocks will have different contrasts) Adjust any clips that need to be adjusted individually (some LUTs or stocks can do odd things on the occasional shot) (optional: add a caption to the grade with the basic info like what LUT or simulation, then export the first frame from each clip as a still) Once you've done that, sleep on it so you have fresh eyes. Bring in some grades you love - either previous ones you've done yourself or reference materials, and compare all the shots you graded and see what you see This is a lot of work, yes, maybe a couple of days if you try a few packages like FilmConvert and Dehancer and others. But you'll do it once, and then you can answer the question of what look/looks you like, save them as power grades (or presets or whatever) and apply them whenever you want. Plus, you'll have a library of looks that you can show to potential customers, you can review for inspiration, etc etc. I've done tests like this and found that the old saying is right - "do it right, do it once". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 FC has a free trial I wasn't aware of so I'll give that a whirl and see what happens. kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
projectwoofer Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 3 hours ago, MrSMW said: How/what do you use in Film Convert? I have made a powergrade that converts Panasonic VLog (and CineD and HLG actually) to Arri LogC using the S1Alex color conversion pack. That converted LogC footage is then converted to Cineon before it goes to Film Convert. My most favorite film stocks lately are Kodak 5207 plus Kodak 2383 from Resolve and Fujifilm H400 Pro. MrSMW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
projectwoofer Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 And if I remember correctly, it's Film Convert that transforms the input log footage to cineon automatically. You then can either use its film negative stock with its matching print stock or completely disable the print stock and use an external LUT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
projectwoofer Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 You might have to use an RGB mixer inside your NLE right before Film Convert to adjust the greens a bit though. Greens tend to look a bit yellow sometimes with film stocks in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 Had a play, liked it. Bought it, got a completely different result 🤪 I don't dislike the completely different result but with the free trial, I was using it on a layer on top of gamut LUT corrected log. After purchasing and installing the specific camera profile, it didn't need the gamut LUT correction but worked instead on the 'raw' log footage. I'll have to play some more... kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 My approach is similar to the one projectwoofer described. It consist of two main steps 1. Color correction and conversion from Panasonic V-Log to REC 709 or another color space if step 2 will be executed 2. Color grading creating certain look. For step 1 tried: - Davinci Color Space transform (CST) for Panasonic V-Log to REC 709 - Panasonic provided conversion LUT from V-Log to REC 709 - 3rd parties conversion LUTs in my case from 55Media, which is similar to S1Alex conversion LUTs from V-Log to Arri LogC I can get similar results from all 3 methods but the easiest one and the one giving me slightly better results are correction LUTs from Media55 (Panasonic V-Log to Arri LogC). Also have in my Davinci Resolve node tree, nodes for White Balance, Exposure Correction (primaries), color saturation, contrast and stabilization. Most of the times just perform step 1 and convert from V-log to Arri LogC to REC 709, adjust individually white balance, exposure, saturation etc. on the individual clips if needed and that's good enough for me. Processing all clips this way is easy, fast and gives me good and consistent results. For step 2 tried - some LUTs - Dehancer which works only in Davinci Resolve and gives you great film emulations. Tried some of them on few small projects and so far like the results very much. There are reviews comparing Dehancer to Film Convert and they say Dehancer is a little bit better. For sure you will be able to get great results with Film Convert too. - using some film emulation in Davinci Resolve and more specifically Kodak 2383 print film, which I also like. Juan Melara has LUT and Power Grade for Kodak 2383, one day I may get them. - using this simple trick in Resolve to steal looks from movies or clips that I like. Later may try to replicate the looks with power grades. For most of my projects 70-80% just do color correction / conversion and that's good enough for me. Is it better than Natural Profile in Panasonic S5/S1/S1H ? It looks so for me. Better dynamic range and better control on colors, saturation and ability to use a look / grade. For the rest 20-30% use 2-3 looks that I like using Dehancer, Kodak 2383 and eventually power grades that am working on. Having another 2-3 special looks in future is maybe my limit. Using an individual look / grade for every projects, that's for well funded commercial projects and Hollywood 🙂 Having 3 to 6 looks and using them would be good enough for me. Hope this helps Zeng and Juank 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted February 10, 2022 Author Share Posted February 10, 2022 Thanks all so far. I've been playing all day with mixed results but the best method for me seems to be: 1: Add gamut LUT to all clips. 2: Manually correct all clips individually to be 'about right'. 3: Add a global layer and add Nitrate to that and then use the Cineon thingy to reduce it's strength with selected film stock. 4: Select the individual clip and twiddle in Lumetri scopes until it 'looks' right. 5: Then make a screen grab and look at that outside of Premiere. 6: Go back into Premiere and do a final tweak if needs be. I've got a look almost about where I want it so tomorrows test will be to try a whole load of different, but typical clips I might use in a film and then apply the above process. Side by side with my best Natural profile, for the first time, I think I do have something that looks better... I'll keep at it... webrunner5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 4 hours ago, MrSMW said: Thanks all so far. I've been playing all day with mixed results but the best method for me seems to be: 1: Add gamut LUT to all clips. 2: Manually correct all clips individually to be 'about right'. 3: Add a global layer and add Nitrate to that and then use the Cineon thingy to reduce it's strength with selected film stock. 4: Select the individual clip and twiddle in Lumetri scopes until it 'looks' right. 5: Then make a screen grab and look at that outside of Premiere. 6: Go back into Premiere and do a final tweak if needs be. I've got a look almost about where I want it so tomorrows test will be to try a whole load of different, but typical clips I might use in a film and then apply the above process. Side by side with my best Natural profile, for the first time, I think I do have something that looks better... I'll keep at it... If you're using a strong look like a film emulation then it's worth noting that the preferred approach for colourists is to apply the look and then grade the clips with the look applied.. "grading under the LUT". This will prevent you from having to make two primaries passes, and will save you from adjusting things that are visible without the look but aren't with it. If you're skeptical, grab a bunch of clips and time yourself doing both methods, you might be surprised. MrSMW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted February 10, 2022 Share Posted February 10, 2022 4 hours ago, MrSMW said: Thanks all so far. I've been playing all day with mixed results but the best method for me seems to be: 1: Add gamut LUT to all clips. 2: Manually correct all clips individually to be 'about right'. 3: Add a global layer and add Nitrate to that and then use the Cineon thingy to reduce it's strength with selected film stock. 4: Select the individual clip and twiddle in Lumetri scopes until it 'looks' right. 5: Then make a screen grab and look at that outside of Premiere. 6: Go back into Premiere and do a final tweak if needs be. I've got a look almost about where I want it so tomorrows test will be to try a whole load of different, but typical clips I might use in a film and then apply the above process. Side by side with my best Natural profile, for the first time, I think I do have something that looks better... I'll keep at it... Also, I'd imagine you'll probably really like FilmConvert. I've spent a lot of time learning colour grading and I value doing things manually to deliberately build my skills, but if all I was interested in was getting a good result I'd just buy one of those packages like FilmConvert or Dehancer etc and be done with it. I wouldn't recommend them to everyone, as film-emulations aren't the only look so they're kind-of a one-trick pony, but if you like the look then they're definitely the fastest way to get from SOOC to done. MrSMW 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Daze Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 If you are working with V-Log this is worth a read: https://na.panasonic.com/ns/253602_V-Log_Excerpt.pdf Rinad Amir and MrSMW 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinad Amir Posted February 11, 2022 Share Posted February 11, 2022 Pannasonic has library of cinematic luts official site as well worth the look https://na.panasonic.com/us/cinema-cameras/varicam-lut-library Try Nicest 709! Its one of the best lut for S1H ^in my opinion ^ God i miss my S1H😭 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted March 24, 2022 Author Share Posted March 24, 2022 Back to Natural with a light grade using Nitrate! I’ve now tried so many different combinations and the conclusion I have come to is: The look I like the most is lightly graded Natural. The most consistent approach is lightly graded Natural. The most efficient workflow (especially important to me this year) is lightly graded Natural. I can sometimes get a better result using a more time consuming and faffing about log workflow, but for that word, ‘sometimes’. Maybe it’s just me, but for my needs & tastes, it’s a no-brainer. Plus AF is way better shooting profiles so seals the deal. I tried to be a better person, honest! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kye Posted March 24, 2022 Share Posted March 24, 2022 11 hours ago, MrSMW said: Back to Natural with a light grade using Nitrate! I’ve now tried so many different combinations and the conclusion I have come to is: The look I like the most is lightly graded Natural. The most consistent approach is lightly graded Natural. The most efficient workflow (especially important to me this year) is lightly graded Natural. I can sometimes get a better result using a more time consuming and faffing about log workflow, but for that word, ‘sometimes’. Maybe it’s just me, but for my needs & tastes, it’s a no-brainer. Plus AF is way better shooting profiles so seals the deal. I tried to be a better person, honest! "If it looks good, it is good" - common mantra from professional colourists. webrunner5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 6 hours ago, kye said: "If it looks good, it is good" - common mantra from professional colourists. It has always worked for me Kye…and it seems it still does! kye 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
webrunner5 Posted March 25, 2022 Share Posted March 25, 2022 That common mantra statement sort of gets into "Ignorance is Bliss" lol. Sort of like Politicians, if you are all stupid we all appear to be really smart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSMW Posted March 25, 2022 Author Share Posted March 25, 2022 I’m both really smart and really stupid rolled into a single package 😛 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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