Grading S1H log footage

[MrSMW]

4 hours ago, kye said:

Gee - you suggest that someone isn't perfect and they go off the deep end like you're calling them incompetent!

Nah, not off the deep end, - just stating my take on the situation which remains the same:

I can go out and shoot the same scene back to back using my tweaked profile and log, but in post, can't get as nice (as I'd like) result.

As I've said and keep saying, I don't deny it's me. Not for one second. But it is something in the grading I am failing at, not the capture. It's not the camera, it's not the capture, it's not the use of log itself, - I'm no workman who blames his tools, but there is something I am missing in the grading process and I have not yet been able to nail that down.

But as I also said, I'm going to leave it for now and revisit the subject later in the year as I outlined above.

[Mark Romero 2]

On 3/27/2022 at 7:50 PM, kye said:

Sounds like you might have also accidentally replaced the word "auto" with something far more rigorous...

Do you think that randomly yelling "autofocus" every time someone says Panasonic is helping the situation?  Or hurting?

All I'm saying is that I had my son second shoot a classical music trio (two violins and a cello) on the E-M1 II while I was shooting it on my S1 and we were both panning between the musicians or tilting up from the instruments to their faces to their hands, and while the Oly might miss focus once or twice for a fraction of a second here or there, with the S1, I ended up having to use manual focus because there were so many times where either it focused on the background (50 feet away), or it just focused on air somewhere between the subject and I.  There were times when a white box would show up around the performer's face, demonstrating that the camera recognized there was a face in the frame, but it still decided to focus on an oak tree far off in the distance.

Now, manual focus on the S1 isn't TOO particularly difficult, but it is a BIG camera and heavy, so shooting handheld and having to pull focus manually resulted in shaky footage, as my aging hands aren't particularly smooth on a good day, and by take five, I was pretty tired.

I guess I am going to end up getting a native 20-60mm lens and use my S5 on my Weebill S so that I can use the built-in control wheel on the Weebill S to hopefully manual focus without having too shaky footage. Not looking forward to it though because while the S5 is MUCH lighter than the S1, the LCD screen isn't as good and the focus peaking isn't as good either.

Oh, and shooting that classical music trio reminded me how much I dislike Sony 8-bit colors (I had my a6500 as my D cam... if I had used it for only close up shots of the instruments it might have been ok, but I can't seem to get any decent skin tones out of it. Don't know how Deadcode does it).

[kye]

22 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Nah, not off the deep end, - just stating my take on the situation which remains the same:

I can go out and shoot the same scene back to back using my tweaked profile and log, but in post, can't get as nice (as I'd like) result.

As I've said and keep saying, I don't deny it's me. Not for one second. But it is something in the grading I am failing at, not the capture. It's not the camera, it's not the capture, it's not the use of log itself, - I'm no workman who blames his tools, but there is something I am missing in the grading process and I have not yet been able to nail that down.

But as I also said, I'm going to leave it for now and revisit the subject later in the year as I outlined above.

Yeah, ok, you convinced me.  You perfectly nail every shot.

1 hour ago, Mark Romero 2 said:

All I'm saying is that I had my son second shoot a classical music trio (two violins and a cello) on the E-M1 II while I was shooting it on my S1 and we were both panning between the musicians or tilting up from the instruments to their faces to their hands, and while the Oly might miss focus once or twice for a fraction of a second here or there, with the S1, I ended up having to use manual focus because there were so many times where either it focused on the background (50 feet away), or it just focused on air somewhere between the subject and I.  There were times when a white box would show up around the performer's face, demonstrating that the camera recognized there was a face in the frame, but it still decided to focus on an oak tree far off in the distance.

Now, manual focus on the S1 isn't TOO particularly difficult, but it is a BIG camera and heavy, so shooting handheld and having to pull focus manually resulted in shaky footage, as my aging hands aren't particularly smooth on a good day, and by take five, I was pretty tired.

I guess I am going to end up getting a native 20-60mm lens and use my S5 on my Weebill S so that I can use the built-in control wheel on the Weebill S to hopefully manual focus without having too shaky footage. Not looking forward to it though because while the S5 is MUCH lighter than the S1, the LCD screen isn't as good and the focus peaking isn't as good either.

Oh, and shooting that classical music trio reminded me how much I dislike Sony 8-bit colors (I had my a6500 as my D cam... if I had used it for only close up shots of the instruments it might have been ok, but I can't seem to get any decent skin tones out of it. Don't know how Deadcode does it).

You've also convinced me.

Remember back in the good old days when any camera that didn't require a loan or long-term savings plan had contrast-detect auto focus...  you'd hold it down to take a photo and it would slowly rack focus from the mountains on the horizon to the tip of the lens hood, then slowly rack back to the horizon again, before deciding to focus on the branch you happened to be shooting past.  Now THAT was the kind of auto focus anyone could get similar results from!

Today - well, they've definitely gone backwards...   It's sad.

[MrSMW]

Cracked it. I thought I’d give it one last go and based on someone’s suggestion, I tried another angle of attack.

Finally, a result equal to or better than I can get out of my tweaked profile.

Then I hit a snag. The S1R doesn’t shoot log or even HLG.

That’s a bummer because it’s going to cause workflow issues based on my specific use case so although I would now be happy shooting this season using log, I’m going to stick with Natural for consistency.

Thanks for all the input folks. It helped.

[Mark Romero 2]

20 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Then I hit a snag. The S1R doesn’t shoot log or even HLG

Huh??? I was 90% sure that the S1R can shoot HLG.

[webrunner5]

https://av.jpn.support.panasonic.com/support/global/cs/soft/download/lumix_hlgphoto.html

Says for all S cameras including the S1R.

[MrSMW]

HLG photo not video.

I am on the most recent firmware and it’s not a profile option for video.

Unless anyone can prove otherwise and I would thank you if it turned out to be the case.

[BTM_Pix]

1 hour ago, MrSMW said:

HLG photo not video.

I am on the most recent firmware and it’s not a profile option for video.

Unless anyone can prove otherwise and I would thank you if it turned out to be the case.

I thought they added HLG video in version 1.6 ?

Has to be in Manual exposure, 10bit MOV format and the lowest ISO is capped to 320 according to the manual.

Maybe they hide it as an option if you are not in Manual and 10bit MOV ?

It wouldn't be the first time Panasonic have hidden a picture profile.....

 

[MrSMW]

Well I’ll be as the old folks say…

I bought the camera used and immediately updated to the latest firmware which is I think V1.9

I shoot 4K 50p so forced to shoot 8 bit and .mp4 which is fine because I only use the S1R as my C cam and only during wedding ceremonies where it’s sole purpose is to cover a third ‘bonus’ angle for the occasional random clip while the A and B cam are on sticks.

Never even occurred to me it would only be available with .mov and 10 bit 4K 25p!

But I checked and that is indeed the case.

One factor for certain whenever I change camera bodies again and that is all 3 bodies will be identical.

Constantly juggling between the S1R, S1H and S5, playing to their strengths and weaknesses.

If I had to pick today, 3x S1H, no question, stills and video.

Proved wrong. Thanks @BTM_Pix 😘

[Mark Romero 2]

5 hours ago, BTM_Pix said:

I thought they added HLG video in version 1.6 ?

Has to be in Manual exposure, 10bit MOV format and the lowest ISO is capped to 320 according to the manual.

Maybe they hide it as an option if you are not in Manual and 10bit MOV ?

It wouldn't be the first time Panasonic have hidden a picture profile.....

You da' man @BTM_Pix

[MrSMW]

Aaaaargh...

5k 25p (30 and 24 available in NTSC) HLG only...which is fine...but it's pixel:pixel crop mode only!

If shooting internally, which I do, only do and only ever will do. At least when shooting hybrid as I do.

Ah well, I explored it at least, but across 3 Lumix bodies, all slightly different spec (S1R, S1H, S5), I'll just stick with shooting Natural for consistency across the board.

Next time, all 3 bodies are gonna match...

 

[kye]

On 4/3/2022 at 1:53 AM, MrSMW said:

Next time, all 3 bodies are gonna match...

I'd heavily suggest that you perform a very heavy and serious exercise of "what do I actually NEED" before buying more camera gear.

I've read you post (seemingly over and over) about how each camera being discussed doesn't quite fit your needs for one reason or another, and TBH it really just sounds like you're turning your nose up at anything that isn't the space shuttle.

Forums and online communities are full of things that "everyone knows" which are, to be frank, complete bullshit.  The reason I do so much testing is to sort out what is true from what is "known" (but complete crap), and from my experience about a third of what I read (and subsequently test) fails miserably to be remotely true, and once you look at the results and think it through, fails to even make sense.

Your "needs" contain their fair share of these things, so I'd suggest you take every "need" you have and then test it.

It will be one of the most freeing things you can possibly do....  once you realise there were all these constraints you were putting on yourself that weren't actually needed at all the possibilities open up before you and instead of feeling frustrated and cornered, you feel that there are options and possibilities to explore.

[webrunner5]

Also, the biggest down fall is the operator. We are all guilty of wanting to have the next greatest thing and think we are going to produce award winning stuff with the new toy. Sure these new cameras have better features, but with skill, lots of it, you can make pretty much anything happen.

Most people, including me, don't spend enough time learning the camera. There is never going to be a perfect camera. But the temptation is defiantly there. Tech keeps marching on.

[TomTheDP]

Honestly the biggest downfall is content. The millions in front of the lens are what makes hollywood so entertaining, not so much whats behind it. Same with docs, not everyone has interesting content like say the whole tiger king situation to shoot. Look at some of the biggest Youtubers, they are using really basic cameras and getting millions of views. It's why some actors are paid so much money.

[webrunner5]

How good would anyone look in front of the camera if the operator had the focus and exposure all wrong? And they are not using Barbi Cams for cameras in Hollywood either. It all has to be right, camera, story, and talent to be a great sucess, plus a bit of luck doesn't hurt also.

[MrSMW]

12 hours ago, kye said:

all these constraints you were putting on yourself that weren't actually needed at all the possibilities open up before you and instead of feeling frustrated and cornered

Say what?!

Who’s feeling ‘frustrated and cornered?

I stated I’d like my next camera system, whenever and whatever that may be, to consist of 3 identical bodies.

None of the 3 I have make me feel in anyway frustrated or cornered and I’m not looking for the perfect camera anymore than 99% of the rest out there.

I would hope that might be the lovechild of the S1R, the S1H and the S5. With better tracking AF for that 5% of the time I need it.

But until such a time comes…and it will come, I’m very happy using what I have and in a career I have few concerns about and frustrated, cornered or desperately seeking Susan doesn’t come into it.

You have me confused with some other bloke Kye 😜

It’s a forum. It’s just chit chat whilst I mostly twiddle my thumbs ahead of a projected 400+ day workload that starts in 4 days after 2.5 years getting by on just 10% of what should have been.

I’m in my groove, my mojo is overflowing, bring it on. Any issues that may exist are beyond my control and right now, I can’t think of a single one.

My kit is essential for what I do. Not necessarily any more or less so than anyone else’s situation but as the only (that I know of) one man band who shoots full photography as a photographer and full video as a videographer, at the same time at the same gig, it’s perhaps more important than it might be for others.

And what I have ticks every box. Except that 5% AF tracking and I have a workaround for that.

But none of my 3 main cameras are 100% perfect for my needs…but the combo of…and everything else I use, is the best suited to my specific needs based on what exists at this time.

’Frustrated and cornered’ made me laugh though 😘

[kye]

6 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Say what?!

Who’s feeling ‘frustrated and cornered?

I stated I’d like my next camera system, whenever and whatever that may be, to consist of 3 identical bodies.

None of the 3 I have make me feel in anyway frustrated or cornered and I’m not looking for the perfect camera anymore than 99% of the rest out there.

I would hope that might be the lovechild of the S1R, the S1H and the S5. With better tracking AF for that 5% of the time I need it.

But until such a time comes…and it will come, I’m very happy using what I have and in a career I have few concerns about and frustrated, cornered or desperately seeking Susan doesn’t come into it.

You have me confused with some other bloke Kye 😜

It’s a forum. It’s just chit chat whilst I mostly twiddle my thumbs ahead of a projected 400+ day workload that starts in 4 days after 2.5 years getting by on just 10% of what should have been.

I’m in my groove, my mojo is overflowing, bring it on. Any issues that may exist are beyond my control and right now, I can’t think of a single one.

My kit is essential for what I do. Not necessarily any more or less so than anyone else’s situation but as the only (that I know of) one man band who shoots full photography as a photographer and full video as a videographer, at the same time at the same gig, it’s perhaps more important than it might be for others.

And what I have ticks every box. Except that 5% AF tracking and I have a workaround for that.

But none of my 3 main cameras are 100% perfect for my needs…but the combo of…and everything else I use, is the best suited to my specific needs based on what exists at this time.

’Frustrated and cornered’ made me laugh though 😘

Umm, ok...  If you say so!

[kye]

8 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

Same with docs, not everyone has interesting content like say the whole tiger king situation to shoot.

Actually, I kind of disagree with this aspect of it.

I think the biggest issue with all content is that the creators don't spend enough (or any) time making sure we care about what happens to the characters.  The first three jobs in a film are:

1) tell me who the film is about
2) tell me what they want
3) make me care

Number 3 can either be the whole "likeable" thing where I care about what the character wants because I like them, or it can be about stakes, but either way, I have to know what they want and care about if they get it.  

This is the problem with most blockbuster movies and TV shows.  I stopped watching LA's Finest the other day, right in the middle of an episode, because I just don't care.  The show is relatively well made and has a high budget but I just don't care.

The thing is, every human being has things they want, and has things in common with us because we're all human.  Any failure to engage an audience is a failure to connect with what is there, rather than due to any absence of it.  Great films have been made about everything from the end of the world to the perfectly mundane and (seemingly) trivial.

Here's an example I quite like, of someone doing something they like:

and it starts immediately with their "why".  This video by a YouTuber made me care more in the first minute than a Hollywood TV show made me care over hours and hours...

There's this idea that we want to watch movies about ourselves, which is done by showing us what we have in common with the people who are actually in the movie.  The idea is that this similarity is why we care in the first place.  Failure to tap into that humanity, which is present in all humans, is really failure of the entire concept.

[TomTheDP]

23 hours ago, kye said:

Actually, I kind of disagree with this aspect of it.

I think the biggest issue with all content is that the creators don't spend enough (or any) time making sure we care about what happens to the characters.  The first three jobs in a film are:

1) tell me who the film is about
2) tell me what they want
3) make me care

Number 3 can either be the whole "likeable" thing where I care about what the character wants because I like them, or it can be about stakes, but either way, I have to know what they want and care about if they get it.  

This is the problem with most blockbuster movies and TV shows.  I stopped watching LA's Finest the other day, right in the middle of an episode, because I just don't care.  The show is relatively well made and has a high budget but I just don't care.

The thing is, every human being has things they want, and has things in common with us because we're all human.  Any failure to engage an audience is a failure to connect with what is there, rather than due to any absence of it.  Great films have been made about everything from the end of the world to the perfectly mundane and (seemingly) trivial.

Here's an example I quite like, of someone doing something they like:

and it starts immediately with their "why".  This video by a YouTuber made me care more in the first minute than a Hollywood TV show made me care over hours and hours...

There's this idea that we want to watch movies about ourselves, which is done by showing us what we have in common with the people who are actually in the movie.  The idea is that this similarity is why we care in the first place.  Failure to tap into that humanity, which is present in all humans, is really failure of the entire concept.

Yes I agree. Though when talking cinematography that video speaks to what I was saying. The beach shots in that video are so beautiful they make a cinematographers job easy.

[Mark Romero 2]

17 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

Yes I agree. Though when talking cinematography that video speaks to what I was saying. The beach shots in that video are so beautiful they make a cinematographers job easy.

On the other hand, just as I can make any expensive guitar sound bad, I can also make any beautiful beach look like a trash dump.

I'm an expert in ugly.

😞