Are you waiting for the A7s and why?

[yiomo]

Just curious how many people are waiting for real reviews or for the release date of A7s in order to get it instead of the GH4. Would also love to hear your view on whether a very good 1080p is good enough for you.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

I am waiting for it. I think it will replace all my small DSLR-type cameras, both for stills and video. Not getting it "instead" of the GH4 though. I still think the GH4 is superior in many way for many. I just like the bigger sensor aesthetic.

[richg101]

The A7S has everything I'd have wanted from a stills/video machine - until I got hold of the A7R.  Now I couldn't live without the 36mpx sensor for stills (in particular the post processing capabilities such a resolution allows).

 

If the A7S had internal 4k and a professional codec it would be a harder decision whether or not to sell the a7r and upgrade.  but to me as someone who finally enjoys taking images on a digital camera (thanks to the A7R) I find the 36mpx sensor the winning decider here.  If i need to take a picture in the dark I'll use a tripod.

 

 

When Sony introduce the upgrade to the A7S (probably 2 months after the A7S is shipping) I imagine it will be something worth waiting for.  At the moment the A7S is too crippled by the marketing team. 

[Michael1]

A7S is off the table for me without internal 4K recording.  It's just not practical for me to haul around an external recorder, so that limits it to 1080.  If I want just 1080 and full frame, I would get a Nikon full frame.  To my eye, Nikon's look more cinematic than Sony's.

 

Michael

[AaronChicago]

You guys' are on point with what I was thinking as well. No internal 4k is a bummer. Depending on the price it might be a good alternative option though for certain shots in low light.

[AaronChicago]

I feel like between the BMPCC, GH4, and A7S what else would you need? That's a pretty killer trio to pick from.

[pablogrollan]

To my eye, Nikon's look more cinematic than Sony's.

 

You know that some Nikons (D600, for example) have Sony sensors, right? I agree that the first NEX cameras looked more videoy than the Canons and Nikons of that generation, but if the dynamic range of the A7S is as they claim, it's going to be a very cinematic FF sensor...

 

Neither the GH4 nor the A7S will have "professional" codecs, but I think that's something we have learnt to live with. H.264 and its many variants were supposed to be delivery codecs, not acquisition or editing ones, but the truth is that nowadays that line is very blurry... the C100 and the FS700 use AVCHD and are professional cameras.

 

I'm with Aaron here, in doubt between GH4 and A7S -sorry, the BMPC is an unreliable beta product to me-. Guess it will be a question of waiting for both cameras to be thoroughly tested and available.

 

Right now I can live without 4K and simply rent a recorder whenever the project requires it, and the extra DR is very attractive. On the other hand, the availability of lenses for the GH4, the slo-mo modes and probably cheaper price make it very appealing...

[Jacek]

I am waiting for the release, but don't have much time and probably will choose something else (maybe GH4).

 

Main reason:

Perfect stills camera for my wife :) and great video for me.

 

Advantage over GH4:

- much better stills camera for our needs.

- will not get old as fast as GH4. In 3 years, when I'll buy Blackmagic Pocket raw 4K ;), A7s will serve as pure superb stills camera. GH4 at that time will be just avarage video- and weak stills camera.

[Zach Ashcraft]

Nope! I just ordered a C100 :)

Fantastic 1080p, super easy workflow and turnaround time. Great image, sound, and NDs. If by some off chance I do ever need 4K I'll probably give the A7S a rental

[Quirky]

Just curious how many people are waiting for real reviews or for the release date of A7s in order to get it instead of the GH4. Would also love to hear your view on whether a very good 1080p is good enough for you.

 

Be careful about using the A7s and GH4 monikers in the same sentence, for that may be considered arguing. It's a sensitive topic, you know.  :P

 

Seriously though, yes, I am waiting for the A7s. But I won't be buying one instead of the GH4, either, and I'll probably wait and see what other options will be available within the following few months. Nevertheless, the A7s sounds interesting from both photo and video point of view. 

 

To me the GH4 would mean having to start investing in a whole new system along with new lenses/adapters, which is something I'm not too eager to do right now. That might quickly eat up the apparent price advantage the GH4 has in my case.

 

And yes, "a very good 1080p" is indeed good enough for me, for now. Which would also make it a bit easier to get started with the A7s, even though it has no internal 4K. If I'll actually go for one. I bet both of these new 4K cameras can deliver decent enough 1080p, too.

[Michael1]

You know that some Nikons (D600, for example) have Sony sensors, right?

I am aware of that Sony manufactures the sensor for Nikon, but I don't know of that sensor being used in any Sony cameras.  There are a lot of Nikon electronics and processing going on between the sensor and the finished file, too.  In still image tests, the Nikon's still outperform the Sony's by a pretty good margin.

 

Michael

[JohnBarlow]

I will probably wait until the price drops by half as is typical with camera prices these days ;)

 

The reason I want one is to complement my stash of 50s & 60s classic lenses some of which are slow wide open, so low light advantage is key to my desire.

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

I am aware of that Sony manufactures the sensor for Nikon, but I don't know of that sensor being used in any Sony cameras.

Michael

Yes the sensor is not the only factor in making a camera more or less filmic. Many other factors. 

But no, anyway I don't agree that sony cameras look any more or less video-y than Nikon ones, or Canon, or even Arri. Don't worry they're all fine (A7s Gh4 ), and can make pretty filmic images if used well. I say don't make that a determining factor of choosing a camera over another,

[dash__dot]

If the price is right it will be a backup stills camera and a bcam to my FS700. Hoping it does have great DR and low noise at high isos for natural lit events and shoots.

No 4k internal doesn't matter to me as much as I already have a recorder for it, but can see why most people are heading towards GH4.

[maxotics]

Nope! I just ordered a C100 :)

Fantastic 1080p, super easy workflow and turnaround time. Great image, sound, and NDs. If by some off chance I do ever need 4K I'll probably give the A7S a rental

 

We have to get these realistic professionals off this forum :) :)   Fun suckerers ;)

[Zach Ashcraft]

We have to get these realistic professionals off this forum :) :)   Fun suckerers ;)

Lol! I know the C100 is probably the most hated camera here, but I just love the image out of that thing. Weddings and real estate videos are not fun but they pay the bills. I'd rather shoot the great image in camera than spending twice as long grading a real estate video, yuck!

Still, I am intrigued by 4K. Just haven't seen a camera that is a must have for me yet

[maxotics]

I'm coming to the same conclusion in amateur land.  As much as I love the image out of BMPCC, it is a LOT of work.  And moire is definitely an issue.  I don't believe moire is a technical "bug" with the camera, but unavoidable when you expect full 1080 resolution with 25% red and green sensels SPREAD OUT on a sensor not specifically built for 1080 video.    You can go ProRes, which is certainly easily, but you lose some quality and then if you're going to have in-camera de-bayering then you have compare against any other camera.

 

My other problem is good film requires good narrative.  Even when I did some real estate videos, with no one in the house, it required a lot of thought about where to put the lights, camera.  How to get those few creative shots to break up the footage.  Sounds like you know that story.  With the BMPCC every minute I use worrying about space and every minute I use in post takes away from that limited time. I'm very torn.

 

For the past few months I've been driven crazy by Andy's love of his g6.  He OBVIOUSLY knows what he's doing.  Then some footage I saw from the Gx7/gm1 looked very similar to the DR I want.  I then went back and looked at a bunch of C100 footage, shot at dusk in NYC and thought, maybe I don't know what f- I'm talking about.

 

So I just got a GM1.  If I can get it close enough to the BMPCC I'm going to sell the BMPCC.  Again, I LOVE the camera.  It's just too distracting and I'm not in a place in life (20-something) where I can take all the time in the world to make movies with it, or whatever.  

 

So far, Andrew is right, that GM1 is a marvel.  Hopefully I'll get some time today and do posts, but it shoots nice indoor video that my GF3 can't.  I also shot some outdoor stuff of my wife, where I first did RAW form the 50D, and it had a very nice DR look.  The only benefit to me for 4K, like you, would be better 1080.  However, the GM1 tells me that technology is not dead.  They keep improving it.  

 

Bottom line, I may be following you in making some realistic decisions about what I want to do with my time.

 

As for the a7s, I might get an a7, to replace my d600.  I don't believe in waiting for cameras.  But that's a whole other long story ;)

[Guest Ebrahim Saadawi]

I'm coming to the same conclusion in amateur land. As much as I love the image out of BMPCC, it is a LOT of work. And moire is definitely an issue. I don't believe moire is a technical "bug" with the camera, but unavoidable when you expect full 1080 resolution with 25% red and green sensels SPREAD OUT on a sensor not specifically built for 1080 video. You can go ProRes, which is certainly easily, but you lose some quality and then if you're going to have in-camera de-bayering then you have compare against any other camera.

My other problem is good film requires good narrative. Even when I did some real estate videos, with no one in the house, it required a lot of thought about where to put the lights, camera. How to get those few creative shots to break up the footage. Sounds like you know that story. With the BMPCC every minute I use worrying about space and every minute I use in post takes away from that limited time. I'm very torn.

For the past few months I've been driven crazy by Andy's love of his g6. He OBVIOUSLY knows what he's doing. Then some footage I saw from the Gx7/gm1 looked very similar to the DR I want. I then went back and looked at a bunch of C100 footage, shot at dusk in NYC and thought, maybe I don't know what f- I'm talking about.

So I just got a GM1. If I can get it close enough to the BMPCC I'm going to sell the BMPCC. Again, I LOVE the camera. It's just too distracting and I'm not in a place in life (20-something) where I can take all the time in the world to make movies with it, or whatever.

So far, Andrew is right, that GM1 is a marvel. Hopefully I'll get some time today and do posts, but it shoots nice indoor video that my GF3 can't. I also shot some outdoor stuff of my wife, where I first did RAW form the 50D, and it had a very nice DR look. The only benefit to me for 4K, like you, would be better 1080. However, the GM1 tells me that technology is not dead. They keep improving it.

Bottom line, I may be following you in making some realistic decisions about what I want to do with my time.

As for the a7s, I might get an a7, to replace my d600. I don't believe in waiting for cameras. But that's a whole other long story ;)

I truly, truly enjoyed reading this. Give us an article on it! :D

[yiomo]

The A7S has everything I'd have wanted from a stills/video machine - until I got hold of the A7R.  Now I couldn't live without the 36mpx sensor for stills (in particular the post processing capabilities such a resolution allows).
 
If the A7S had internal 4k and a professional codec it would be a harder decision whether or not to sell the a7r and upgrade.  but to me as someone who finally enjoys taking images on a digital camera (thanks to the A7R) I find the 36mpx sensor the winning decider here.  If i need to take a picture in the dark I'll use a tripod.
 
 
When Sony introduce the upgrade to the A7S (probably 2 months after the A7S is shipping) I imagine it will be something worth waiting for.  At the moment the A7S is too crippled by the marketing team.

It seems you are only considering the photography side. I haven't read any rave reviews about a7r's video side.

[yiomo]

 
And yes, "a very good 1080p" is indeed good enough for me, for now. Which would also make it a bit easier to get started with the A7s, even though it has no internal 4K. If I'll actually go for one. I bet both of these new 4K cameras can deliver decent enough 1080p, too.

Well, one of the reasons I asked about the 1080p is that, based on the reviews, the Gh4 has put emphasis on the 4k side and not too much on the 1080p. As I am not interested in 4k, for me the comparison is between 1080p modes.