"Looking" professional and how important is it?

[TomTheDP]

5 hours ago, Ryan Earl said:

Thanks, did you go with PL mount?  I tried the 35mm when it came out in PL and didn't test on larger sensors. 

Yes I did go PL. Locking EF mounts are kind of weird. Surprisingly they are both priced the same so it was a no brainer for me.

I think if I had a bit more cash lying around I would have went with the IRIX. But once the 18mm and 100mm come out it will be a really nice set and all with an F2 aperture.

 

2 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I think that Q ^ is for Tom but I went with EF myself, but for the reasons of the Fotodiox VND adapter.

Either mount option will make anyone look pro. For sure.

Do you like the longer focus throw?
 

[kye]

11 hours ago, Ryan Earl said:

Yeah, mine is 8 lbs built like this:

Follow Focus looks bigger than the camera!

It works well on a tripod and slider, then for some quick handheld I pull the follow focus off and operate with my left hand under the rails and adjust aperture and focus with my left thumb and have my right thumb press the false color button. 

All the weight tips forward though and I have a bag underneath to prop it up on the table. 

I'm alway torn between things being functional and being small/light.  I would absolutely rig out a camera if it wasn't too large/heavy for what I am doing (shooting personal projects under the radar).  The functionality of a rig like yours above is hard to argue with.  8lb though...  hand-holding that for hours - my arm would fall off!

11 hours ago, Ryan Earl said:

And the client has hired you presumably because they've already seen your work.

I've heard other people who shoot minimally use that as a line to help with concerned clients.  Just saying "this is how I shot all my work - including <project the client mentioned during the sales process>".

7 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Your WB might be slightly off there Tom? 😜

Nah, it's cheap LEDs that the problem!

[MrSMW]

1 hour ago, TomTheDP said:

Do you like the longer focus throw?

Life is about compromise. At least mine is.

As a solo hybrid shooter, ideally I’d have super-reliable AF.

My compromise has been not having that for other benefits.

The principal reason I went for a cine lens was partly so I would be forced to use only manual focus, but mainly because it is mechanical.

I do prefer the longer throw for sure over the photo-orientated Sigma f2 Contemporary lenses, but mostly I prefer the fact that cine lenses don’t change focus if you switch the camera off whereas my experience with focus by wire is they always need more fiddling with.

One of the most important factors to me is consistency and I have found that in the Meike cine lens very quickly.

I should add I have had a cine lens previously. A Rokinon/Samyang with my Fuji XT3 a few years back but I suspect that was more of a rehoused lens than a proper cine lens.

I dismissed Sigma’s own cine lenses as being too big, too heavy, too expensive and from the tests and reviews I have seen, possibly not as good as the Meike.

Ditto the DZO Vespid’s that were initially my first choice being somewhere between the two (Meike and Sigma) on price but the smallest and lightest, but tests seem to suggest the Meike produced the better image.

I’ll have a production out within the next few weeks shot with the Meike.

[OleB]

4 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Ditto the DZO Vespid’s that were initially my first choice being somewhere between the two (Meike and Sigma) on price but the smallest and lightest, but tests seem to suggest the Meike produced the better image.

 

I am using the Vespid primes. 35/50/75mm with my fp and I love them. Sort of a little vintage rendering, sharp enough for what I like and colors are gorgeous and consistent between them. T2.1 also is good enough for my liking on FF. 🙂 

Size is still okay, they have a 77mm filter thread which was perfect, because I did not have to buy NDs, Tiffen BPM etc. again had them laying around from my photo equipment.

[MrSMW]

23 minutes ago, OleB said:

I am using the Vespid primes. 35/50/75mm with my fp and I love them. Sort of a little vintage rendering, sharp enough for what I like and colors are gorgeous and consistent between them. T2.1 also is good enough for my liking on FF

That's the set I was looking at, but then the tests and reviews I saw suggested the Meike had a bit of an edge when it came to outright image quality and are near 1/2 the price (the S35's anyway) and both of those factors swung it for me, so went for just the single Meike 50mm.

I might still get the 75 because there are times when I need longer, but wider I have covered with the rest of my lenses, so for those rare occasions when I do need wider than '75', I'll just use one of those.

In fact I did the other day for the last hour of the wedding and dancing when I used the Sigma 20mm f2 as a '30'. And got back AF and the AF actually works quite well for dancing stuff as there is a lot of contrast!

[OleB]

39 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

That's the set I was looking at, but then the tests and reviews I saw suggested the Meike had a bit of an edge when it came to outright image quality and are near 1/2 the price (the S35's anyway) and both of those factors swung it for me, so went for just the single Meike 50mm.

I might still get the 75 because there are times when I need longer, but wider I have covered with the rest of my lenses, so for those rare occasions when I do need wider than '75', I'll just use one of those.

In fact I did the other day for the last hour of the wedding and dancing when I used the Sigma 20mm f2 as a '30'. And got back AF and the AF actually works quite well for dancing stuff as there is a lot of contrast!

Guess those Meikes are also extremely good. We have so many great choices nowadays. 🙂 If I would build the set today, because that DC crop mode of the fp works so perfectly, I most likely would go for 25mm, 50mm and 100mm...Cover what is in between with the crop mode. 

[fuzzynormal]

Man, I’ve gone so far as to hire a separate crew to shoot “a” cam with all the video-village gak —while I run around looking all unassuming, just doing my thing and getting 90% of the video used in the edit. 

[Ryan Earl]

10 hours ago, kye said:

8lb though...  hand-holding that for hours - my arm would fall off!

Yeah, it's really only practical for short periods of time.  I'm steady with a 32 - 50mm without jitters.  I haven't bought the EVF yet.  I like to hold the matte box with both hands on either side to operate and I think the EVF might line up well to where the camera is at least on my shoulder and I can counter weight the back with a v mount battery.  The Sigma FP is the only mirrorless I think to have offset their EVF to the left to give you that shoulder position option.  

Stripped down to just the camera for hand held I've used the Canon 35mm F2 IS and a Hoya screw on Pro ND and that seems to work well too.  

 

[TomTheDP]

5 hours ago, Ryan Earl said:

Yeah, it's really only practical for short periods of time.  I'm steady with a 32 - 50mm without jitters.  I haven't bought the EVF yet.  I like to hold the matte box with both hands on either side to operate and I think the EVF might line up well to where the camera is at least on my shoulder and I can counter weight the back with a v mount battery.  The Sigma FP is the only mirrorless I think to have offset their EVF to the left to give you that shoulder position option.  

Stripped down to just the camera for hand held I've used the Canon 35mm F2 IS and a Hoya screw on Pro ND and that seems to work well too. 

8lbs isn't bad, when 8lbs is the starting point before rigging then you have a problem 🤣

[webrunner5]

Well to me other than the Ursa Mini most of these new cameras have missed the boat. Real ENG cameras have zero stabilization in the body or the lens, yet you never see any goofy bad movement from them because they weigh a lot, and they are up on your shoulder. 

Like I have said you can use them for hours on you shoulder and never get tired or shaky.  I have no clue why when you buy a camera that is geared toward film making these company's trying to make the littlest, lightest camera they can make that fits in your hand then you have to rig the living shit out of a camera and they still suck is beyond me.

[newfoundmass]

I prefer the smaller cameras. I miss the ergonomics of those big boys, but not the weight. You had to be built like a brick house to use those cameras. 

I know a couple NBA and WWE cameramen and they need to be in really good shape to do what they do. 

I do think the shoulder rig is underrated. I still use one from time to time! 

[kye]

4 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

Well to me other than the Ursa Mini most of these new cameras have missed the boat. Real ENG cameras have zero stabilization in the body or the lens, yet you never see any goofy bad movement from them because they weigh a lot, and they are up on your shoulder. 

Like I have said you can use them for hours on you shoulder and never get tired or shaky.  I have no clue why when you buy a camera that is geared toward film making these company's trying to make the littlest, lightest camera they can make that fits in your hand then you have to rig the living shit out of a camera and they still suck is beyond me.

Gimbals and drones.

[webrunner5]

I F ing hate the look of Gimbals. They look like shit. Oh look I am flying! Same with motorized slides, god, people overused the shit out of them also.

A Steady Cam well yeah, not a damn gimbal. Drones, well they have a small sensor in them. And if you are not great you can look like a drunken sailor flying one. Drones do give a unique look, but it gets old quick for all the wobbles and jitters.

[MrSMW]

6 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

8lbs isn't bad

Especially if you 'push' rather than hold.

With so many handheld set ups, I see them being free held.

Straps are your friend here.

Twin crossed over harness such as the Holdfast etc, strap connected to each side of the camera/rig and then obviously you do hold it with your hands, but push the camera away from you with tension in the straps and it massively reduces the load. Plus adds further stability.

OK, my set up is just over 5lbs and there would be a difference between 5 and 8lbs, but it sure would help.

Anything 'heavy' previously I used to use a monopod but I've moved away from that now as it just slows me down and adds to the weight when/if constantly moving about.

Unlike @webrunner5 😁 I am all about as small and light as possible...but balanced with output and in my case, I have had to sacrifice some of that side of things.

I'm still intrigued by an OM-1 system in this regard but too heavily invested (financially and mentally) in L Mount to even look at that any further other than as a musing...

[webrunner5]

I still believe the move away from Camcorders was sort of a bad idea for video. Sure, for photos I can see it.

[TomTheDP]

IBIS has really allowed the use of tiny handheld cameras to get smooth looking footage. Looks like you are carrying a big ass camera, well somewhat. There are always caveats to these shortcuts but they can be incredibly useful. I don't think a good shoulder mounted camera can be replaced for certain applications.

It is nice having something that you can throw up on the shoulder super easily without rigging it to high heaven. That said with the amount of steady movements directors tend to demand slider, dolly, gimbal, steadicam, or just straight up handheld(which looks different than shoulder, its lower angle) a lighter camera comes in clutch and is almost essential to at least have around as a B-cam.

I really hate rigging but its the way of now. I gotta build a rig for the tiny Sigma I just got. The one thing that truly needs to be a no 1 feature on every cameras is internal ND.

[webrunner5]

Well, I will concede that a person that is 7 foot tall probably should NOT use a shoulder mounted camcorder!

[MrSMW]

11 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

The one thing that truly needs to be a no 1 feature on every cameras is internal ND.

Used to be very high up on my list but for those cameras that can use it…which is Canon with it’s EF-RF option and L Mount with it’s (via Fotodiox) VND adapter options, I am less bothered than I used to be.

A Canon R5/R6 combo got pretty high on my list because of their drop in adapter (I presume it takes a VND?) at one point but since picking up the Fotodiox option for L Mount, happy days.

For anyone using either Panny FF or Sigma (but not Leica apparently), if you have not considered it, you should!

[webrunner5]

Trouble with the EF-RF ND option is you have to use EF lenses and they are huge compared to mirrorless lenses. Not really into a 5 pound lens anymore. 

Sony is really good at making small light mirrorless lenses. My EF 24-105mm Canon seems twice as heavy as my FE 24-105mm Sony. On my 1DC it is stupid heavy total weight wise.

[newfoundmass]

I'm in agreement with @webrunner5, I have come to dislike the overuse of gimbals. I think that kind of smooth movement should be used to convey part of the story you're trying to tell, as opposed to being the default camera movement you use. It is part of the sterile, for lack of a better word, direction filmmaking/videography has taken that I just don't like. Not everything needs to be CLEAN and PERFECT. And not everything needs to be in slow motion!

There are a lot of negatives to moving away from the camcorder style of camera, and there are things I miss a lot about them, but it's also hard not to appreciate what these smaller cameras have allowed us to do. There is something truly liberating about being able to pick up my tiny GX85, throw on the 35-100mm lens, and get that kind of quality footage while being able to blend in and film in places I normally wouldn't be able to. I've also found, even with the larger mirrorless cameras, people are generally a lot more comfortable being filmed than they were when I used those larger cameras. Still, I do miss the ergonomics, the button lay out, the legendary battery life, and all the other perks that came with those big boys. I also never ran into the problem of not looking professional when carrying one of those hulking beasts with me!