ARRI's brand new 4K S35 sensor is mere weeks away

[IronFilm]

Is being demoed to Australian cinematographers in another fortnight in Sydney (I presume there must be many more of these happening world wide). 

[webrunner5]

And you get to buy all new batteries for it also. What fun.

 

https://ymcinema.com/2022/03/11/arri-drops-some-hints-on-the-next-alexa-s35-4k-camera/

[IronFilm]

An uploaded then deleted picture (probably this is the body! Got leaked):

 

This is ARRI's first ever new digital sensor since their original one they've been reusing over and over and over again (with great success of course!).

If they don't drop the ball on it, then the ARRI Mini S35 4K is going to insanely HUGE! (on all sorts of productions)

But if they fumble the ball, then this might be the best chance Sony & RED (maaaaybe Panasonic?? They've been a bit AWOL, where is their Varicam LT mk2? Where is a higher end pro version of the BS1H from their Varicam division?) will have in the next decade to take away the #1 top spot from ARRI.

 

14 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

And you get to buy all new batteries for it also. What fun.

Eh, their new range of LF cameras were already needing a 24V power draw? At the level this new ARRI camera operates, the batteries it needs won't be a deal breaker 

[TomTheDP]

8 hours ago, IronFilm said:

But if they fumble the ball, then this might be the best chance Sony & RED (maaaaybe Panasonic?? They've been a bit AWOL, where is their Varicam LT mk2? Where is a higher end pro version of the BS1H from their Varicam division?) will have in the next decade to take away the #1 top spot from ARRI.

I don't think that is likely to happen. I think this new S35 camera is the first in an entirely new line up. I think we will see a higher resolution full frame camera to replace the LF.

ARRI is still leading in Dynamic range 10 years after their first camera was released(2011 approx). It sounds like this camera will have higher color depth and dynamic range. Maybe this will be a 14 or 16 bit log image, which would make sense if the camera boasts 16 stops of dynamic range.

[mercer]

Yeah it's pretty crazy what Arri has been able to do with the same sensor after all these years. Someone recently shared this video from the Mini LF with me...

Honestly, I don't know how they could make something better.

Since the new sensor has been in development for a while now and delayed a bit, I can only imagine it must be pretty special.

I suspect we'll see improvements in DR and color depth, but also some new gain technology.

It should be a sight to see. 

[TomTheDP]

1 hour ago, mercer said:

Yeah it's pretty crazy what Arri has been able to do with the same sensor after all these years. Someone recently shared this video from the Mini LF with me...

Honestly, I don't know how they could make something better.

Since the new sensor has been in development for a while now and delayed a bit, I can only imagine it must be pretty special.

I suspect we'll see improvements in DR and color depth, but also some new gain technology.

It should be a sight to see. 

Should mean better low light performance. ARRI in my opinion has never been super clean in the shadows, maybe that will change with this one. But yeah the LF is beautiful hard to argue against it lol. Lots of people like the Venice for it's 2500 dual native ISO.

[mercer]

@TomTheDP Hopefully, I suppose. I doubt I'll ever shoot with any Alexa, so I guess it doesn't much matter to me, but it's interesting to see what Deakins may use on his next film. Weirdly, I prefer FF or S16 over S35. Once I started shooting FF, it became hard to go back to crops.

There have only been a few cameras that I've seen footage from and I thought... wow! Obviously, the Alexa is one of them. If you end up getting a Komodo... I think you'll own almost every camera that gets me going. Lol. 

[Django]

..you can find Alexa's for as cheap as $4K. obviously very used (+6000 hours) and the older models but there are deals out there. and with this new generation, hopefully means more lower priced Alexas to be found on second hand market for us common mortals that dream of owning one some day.

[kye]

Very exiting news - probably the most excited I will ever be for a camera I would never use!

It will be hugely interesting to see what they come up with.  I know it's a "new sensor" but in a way so is the ALEV III, and the ALEV II before that.  In terms of improvements, you only have to compare the later vs earlier versions of that to see that they really did improve the colour.  I wonder what was holding them back?

[TomTheDP]

7 hours ago, kye said:

Very exiting news - probably the most excited I will ever be for a camera I would never use!

It will be hugely interesting to see what they come up with.  I know it's a "new sensor" but in a way so is the ALEV III, and the ALEV II before that.  In terms of improvements, you only have to compare the later vs earlier versions of that to see that they really did improve the colour.  I wonder what was holding them back?

This one will capture higher color depth and more dynamic range according to ARRI. That has always been consistently the same on any given ARRI camera until now.

[IronFilm]

16 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

I don't think that is likely to happen. I think this new S35 camera is the first in an entirely new line up. I think we will see a higher resolution full frame camera to replace the LF.

ARRI is still leading in Dynamic range 10 years after their first camera was released(2011 approx). It sounds like this camera will have higher color depth and dynamic range. Maybe this will be a 14 or 16 bit log image, which would make sense if the camera boasts 16 stops of dynamic range.

I agree with you that in the balance of probabilities, that it is likely ARRI  pull off successfully this transition over to their new sensor. And ARRI will do everything in their powers to make sure it is succesful. 

But there is still is a risk, the greatest risk posed to the ARRI digital cameras so far in their history. 

 

8 hours ago, Django said:

..you can find Alexa's for as cheap as $4K. obviously very used (+6000 hours) and the older models but there are deals out there. and with this new generation, hopefully means more lower priced Alexas to be found on second hand market for us common mortals that dream of owning one some day.

Yup, it is rare to see an ALEXA Classic for $4K on eBay, but the release of the ARRI 4K S35 sensor will make these deals become more common place. 

 

[TomTheDP]

13 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

I agree with you that in the balance of probabilities, that it is likely ARRI  pull off successfully this transition over to their new sensor. And ARRI will do everything in their powers to make sure it is succesful. 

But there is still is a risk, the greatest risk posed to the ARRI digital cameras so far in their history.

Yup, it is rare to see an ALEXA Classic for $4K on eBay, but the release of the ARRI 4K S35 sensor will make these deals become more common place. 

 

I've seen them on ebay frequently for 4k but that is just the body with nothing else, no evf, no top handle.

I am not sure how it will effect old ARRI prices. It will defiantly effect the mini I would think as it basically makes it outdated. I feel the Amira still has a solid place in the line up. The Classic not so much but people buying used classics are not the same people buying an Alexa mini. Maybe it'll drive down the prices of used XT's.

It'll be interesting to see where this places in the entire lineup as it could potentially out perform LF. Which is kind of why I think they are going to be developing an entire new line of cameras.

 

12 hours ago, mercer said:

@TomTheDP Hopefully, I suppose. I doubt I'll ever shoot with any Alexa, so I guess it doesn't much matter to me, but it's interesting to see what Deakins may use on his next film. Weirdly, I prefer FF or S16 over S35. Once I started shooting FF, it became hard to go back to crops.

There have only been a few cameras that I've seen footage from and I thought... wow! Obviously, the Alexa is one of them. If you end up getting a Komodo... I think you'll own almost every camera that gets me going. Lol. 

I agree on full frame vs crop, though after using an Alexa its easy to embrace S35 again. There is really no better shooting experience IMO. I really love my classic but I will probably part ways and get a Komodo. Even an Alexa mini is heavy and power hungry compared to a Komodo.

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, TomTheDP said:

I am not sure how it will effect old ARRI prices. It will defiantly effect the mini I would think as it basically makes it outdated.

The Mini is easily US$30K+ secondhand. 

So it still has a looooong way to drop! Could literally fall to half its current price and still be outside the reach of over 97% of the forum users here. 

And the ARRI Mini shots internal 4K, the fact it has a subtle uprez and isn't "true 4K" won't matter to some people. (I mean, if you're on a budget, and your output is to YouTube to be seen on smartphones, do you really care that much? You'll choose the ARRI Mini if the rental is a lot cheaper than the latest ARRI model)

[Andrew Reid]

ALEXA-35

Looks nice.

Built in ND filter and a smaller RED / ALEXA MINI form factor.

Will be interesting to see how the new sensor holds up.

17+ stops dynamic range!

https://www.eoshd.com/news/new-arri-alexa-leaks-dubbed-alexa-35-17-stops-dynamic-range-and-4k-120fps/

[Django]

wow.. was not expecting that kind of form factor! built-in NDs also rather surprising.. I guess they're also aiming at docu & action shooters that want the most compact rig. just pop on a lens and shoot. very interesting. oh and that rumoured DR is crazy. yeah new Hollywood standard for sure!

[MrSMW]

I might get a pair to shoot weddings with. What's the AF like?

(Not really and I'm not interested in proper cine cameras because I'm not a proper filmmaker)

[Andrew Reid]

7 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

I might get a pair to shoot weddings with. What's the AF like?

(Not really and I'm not interested in proper cine cameras because I'm not a proper filmmaker)

Most importantly has it got animal eye AF and a food mode?

[MrSMW]

I guess, as the saying goes, if I have to ask, then I can't afford it, but what is the cost going to be for one of these?

50k+?

I'm not the market nor ever will be, but I'm kind of interested in how the high end tech can trickle down to the 'lower-mid' point (S1H) where I live.

[Django]

Quote

There’s some speculation around the price, between 45K and 70K, maximum 90K for a full ready to shoot kit.

Not many folks in the world can afford this, aside from A-list actor/directors like Ben Affleck in the photo above.

But usually no one person buys a brand new ARRI. It's either studios, production companies or rental houses.

Rest assured pretty safe to say nobody here is in the market so its mostly just an industry look at what's happening on the high-end.

As to how it could trickle down, well Canon & Panasonic have both copied the Dual Gain output of the OG Alexa sensor in C300/C70/GH6. Took them 10 years though!

Again, its interesting to see ARRI took form them the built-in ND's. surprised they didn't go Sony's Vari E-ND but maybe there is a patent on that one.

[majoraxis]

Very impressed that it is not 8k or 6k so it should have better low at $4.6k than if it were higher resolutions. I would love to see what 20 stops looks like compared to 17 stops etc... will it be noticeable?  So will they have a Log 20 to 16 or 12 bit storage file bit depth to retain all of the dynamic range?  They have been thinking about how deliver these specifications for a number of years so ti will be informative to see how they solve higher dynamic range capture.