ARRI's brand new 4K S35 sensor is mere weeks away

[TomTheDP]

4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

 

They're still building the Mini LF, as well as the full size one. 

Guess they've discontinued the SXT W? And the AMIRA etc? Or is the ALEXA 35 going to be their only Super 35mm camera?

He did say their new camera control phone app will work on the AMIRA, Mini, LF, and 35

I feel the Amira still has a place while to me the mini not so much.

[Andrew Reid]

16 hours ago, kye said:

I think someone mentioned this in passing earlier in the thread, but I thought I'd link it in case anyone was interested.

The FD Times latest issue is 96 pages devoted purely to the Alexa 35
https://www.fdtimes.com/pdfs/free/115FDTimes-June2022-2.04-150.pdf

Some interesting teardown shots in it!

[mercer]

Jeez... a production could take the casing off and use that as a prop in the next Bond film. All it needs is a countdown timer. 

[Andrew Reid]

Might get your cabin bag double scanned.

Notice how the ports are secured with a metal plate internally so they don't wiggle and break. This is what $95k gets you!

[Andrew Reid]

The design of the hybrid screen / EVF module is extremely lovely.

But is there a way to get rid of the unsightly cable?

You'd have thought it could be attached directly without wires.

[webrunner5]

There will probably be a $8,000 knockoff from China soon.

[IronFilm]

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

Some interesting teardown shots in it!

Nothing like naked pics of a camera to get me feeling all hot and bothered! 
 

 

1 hour ago, Andrew Reid said:

This is what $95k gets you!

I think the body itself is "only" $65K-ish? But yeah, the whole package easily pushes close to $100K. 

 

26 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

There will probably be a $8,000 knockoff from China soon.

Already exists. That's called Kinefinity and Z Cam. 

[kye]

6 hours ago, Andrew Reid said:

Some interesting teardown shots in it!

Man, it's all packed in there.  The model comparison (p37) is illuminating and shows how much smaller the bodies of the 35 and Mini really are compared to the previous models.

One other thing that I noted from that issue was that they are actively cooling the sensor to maintain an optimum temperature.  This makes sense as noise (and probably lots of other things) change with this variable, but AFAIK no other cameras do this?  It just shows how much extra stuff is in there compared to MILC cameras, and also the lengths that they're going to for ultimate image quality.

I also noted a comment from PotatoJets video where he asks about weather sealing and one of the ARRI guys says that you can basically pour beer into the top of the camera and it won't get to the electronics.  Of course that's a joke, but he said that on The Grand Tour they were filming in hugely dusty environments and at the end of the day they'd just put a compressed air nozzle up to the air intake and blow all the dust out of the camera.  The fact that didn't completely kill their units really is a tribute to the engineering put into these things.

[Andrew Reid]

It makes a Canon EOS R5C look like a biscuit tin.

The transition ARRI made from film cameras to digital has been masterful. Some of the best engineering ever in any industry ever.

Must be such a huge challenge to keep the electronics cool when they are so densely packed and sealed in.

And that they are made to last a decade without going obsolete, is also a huge difference between ARRI and the rest.

[Caleb Genheimer]

@IronFilm Mostly the AMIRA has a different control and ergonomic philosophy. Sure, modules make the 35 very close on paper, but AMIRA is super streamlined For single op all-in-one work in every sense.

[Caleb Genheimer]

@IronFilm Mostly the AMIRA has a different control and ergonomic philosophy. Sure, modules make the 35 very close on paper, but AMIRA is super streamlined For single op all-in-one work in every sense.

[IronFilm]

I think the mini info/control panel on the operator side and the Sonosax module together make the ALEXA 35 closer to the AMIRA than any other ALEXA has come. 

[kye]

On 6/7/2022 at 10:07 PM, IronFilm said:

I think the mini info/control panel on the operator side and the Sonosax module together make the ALEXA 35 closer to the AMIRA than any other ALEXA has come. 

IIRC you've said in the past that the Alexa needed multiple people to really operate it (or at least that it wasn't a good fit for solo operators) - I remember reading somewhere in the ARRI marketing that they wanted the 35 to be an all-around camera good for all kinds of work. 

Do you think its design supports that?  Would this be usable for a solo operator?

[TomTheDP]

56 minutes ago, kye said:

IIRC you've said in the past that the Alexa needed multiple people to really operate it (or at least that it wasn't a good fit for solo operators) - I remember reading somewhere in the ARRI marketing that they wanted the 35 to be an all-around camera good for all kinds of work. 

Do you think its design supports that?  Would this be usable for a solo operator?

I think so. You can throw a battery and lens on and be ready to shoot. You have easy audio options too. Honestly the OG mini is not hard to solo operate but not having easy on board audio options sucks. The bad thing about the mini is it sucks for bigger productions as there is no side panel for the AC.

 

[A_Urquhart]

On 6/3/2022 at 11:11 AM, Andrew Reid said:

The design of the hybrid screen / EVF module is extremely lovely.

But is there a way to get rid of the unsightly cable?

You'd have thought it could be attached directly without wires.

It's easy to clean that cable up with

some clever cable management (unlike the photo). A good 1st AC will sort that out quick smart. Having a cable means it can be adjusted and placed anywhere on the camera quickly and easily. 

 

9 hours ago, kye said:

IIRC you've said in the past that the Alexa needed multiple people to really operate it (or at least that it wasn't a good fit for solo operators) - I remember reading somewhere in the ARRI marketing that they wanted the 35 to be an all-around camera good for all kinds of work. 

Do you think its design supports that?  Would this be usable for a solo operator?

The current Alexa Mini is pretty easy to solo operate really. Such a great menu system and most of what you need is accesible by the buttons on the EVF/screen

This may have been mentioned already but I genuinely am curious about the following..... Why isn't anyone here seriously complaining about the lack of IBIS, Auto focus or the fact that it isn't Full Frame? Is it because the camera is so far out of reach price wise that you just don't care? 

So, when other companies make cameras that are not too far away from this image wise such as Z-Cam, Blackmagic etc (I know the Alexa trumps them image wise, but I have used Pocket Cameras as B_Cams to Alexa Minis in the past without too much issue), do people complain that those camera don't have IBIS, AF and FF just because they are priced in reach of people who need those features without really realising who those cameras are aimed at? Is the Problem with other manufacturers the fact that they price their cameras too cheap?

We seem willing to accept the lack of features in a $75,000 camera but when someone comes along and gives us 70% of that camera in a much cheaper package, we wine about it not having feature XY&Z.

Not wanting to stir the pot, just genuinely interested as to how people think.

[TomTheDP]

adequate

16 minutes ago, A_Urquhart said:

It's easy to clean that cable up with

some clever cable management (unlike the photo). A good 1st AC will sort that out quick smart. Having a cable means it can be adjusted and placed anywhere on the camera quickly and easily. 

 

The current Alexa Mini is pretty easy to solo operate really. Such a great menu system and most of what you need is accesible by the buttons on the EVF/screen

This may have been mentioned already but I genuinely am curious about the following..... Why isn't anyone here seriously complaining about the lack of IBIS, Auto focus or the fact that it isn't Full Frame? Is it because the camera is so far out of reach price wise that you just don't care? 

So, when other companies make cameras that are not too far away from this image wise such as Z-Cam, Blackmagic etc (I know the Alexa trumps them image wise, but I have used Pocket Cameras as B_Cams to Alexa Minis in the past without too much issue), do people complain that those camera don't have IBIS, AF and FF just because they are priced in reach of people who need those features without really realising who those cameras are aimed at? Is the Problem with other manufacturers the fact that they price their cameras too cheap?

We seem willing to accept the lack of features in a $75,000 camera but when someone comes along and gives us 70% of that camera in a much cheaper package, we wine about it not having feature XY&Z.

Not wanting to stir the pot, just genuinely interested as to how people think.

There isn't much reason to comment on the Alexa 35, other than to ogle over the image. This is because almost no one here will really be using it.

If you are getting a Blackmagic Pocket 6k you are grasping for whatever you can get ahold of to make your barely adequate shoots work. That is my take at least. I have heard complaints about the Alexa 35 but it's from people who will actually be using it and it doesn't have to do with autofocus or IBIS as that doesn't really exist in that space.

A lot of people buying cheaper cameras have to choose between that or something else and they want it all in one as most can't afford multiple systems.

[kye]

2 hours ago, A_Urquhart said:

It's easy to clean that cable up with

some clever cable management (unlike the photo). A good 1st AC will sort that out quick smart. Having a cable means it can be adjusted and placed anywhere on the camera quickly and easily. 

 

The current Alexa Mini is pretty easy to solo operate really. Such a great menu system and most of what you need is accesible by the buttons on the EVF/screen

This may have been mentioned already but I genuinely am curious about the following..... Why isn't anyone here seriously complaining about the lack of IBIS, Auto focus or the fact that it isn't Full Frame? Is it because the camera is so far out of reach price wise that you just don't care? 

So, when other companies make cameras that are not too far away from this image wise such as Z-Cam, Blackmagic etc (I know the Alexa trumps them image wise, but I have used Pocket Cameras as B_Cams to Alexa Minis in the past without too much issue), do people complain that those camera don't have IBIS, AF and FF just because they are priced in reach of people who need those features without really realising who those cameras are aimed at? Is the Problem with other manufacturers the fact that they price their cameras too cheap?

We seem willing to accept the lack of features in a $75,000 camera but when someone comes along and gives us 70% of that camera in a much cheaper package, we wine about it not having feature XY&Z.

Not wanting to stir the pot, just genuinely interested as to how people think.

Yeah, there's absolutely no way that I'd use anything from ARRI, even if I could afford them, they're still too big for what I shoot (home videos and travel).  I am also aware that sensor size, AF, and IBIS aren't critical features for most people.

In terms of why people don't apply the normal hype factors to higher end cameras, I suspect it's just that the users are mostly mutually exclusive.  If someone was on a production where they were looking for things like FF and AF then they'd probably just get a different camera - I think there are options out there.

I really see that there's pretty minimal overlap between the world of professional sets where equipment is hired and there are lots of people on the production who all do things in the standard way, and the solo-operators who haven't worked on professional sets and don't know why things are done the way they're done.

It's worth noting that even within professional circles things like FF fetish still exists.  I recently watched an industry video with interviews of lots of cinematographers and it was clip after clip of people fawning over the magic that a larger sensor gives you with the odd clip of Steve Yedlin in there saying that there is no difference and that optics just don't work like that.  It was hilarious, but was almost embarrassing.

2 hours ago, TomTheDP said:

If you are getting a Blackmagic Pocket 6k you are grasping for whatever you can get ahold of to make your barely adequate shoots work. That is my take at least.

That made me laugh!  Yes, that's true.  

[FHDcrew]

18 minutes ago, kye said:

Yeah, there's absolutely no way that I'd use anything from ARRI, even if I could afford them, they're still too big for what I shoot (home videos and travel).  I am also aware that sensor size, AF, and IBIS aren't critical features for most people.

In terms of why people don't apply the normal hype factors to higher end cameras, I suspect it's just that the users are mostly mutually exclusive.  If someone was on a production where they were looking for things like FF and AF then they'd probably just get a different camera - I think there are options out there.

I really see that there's pretty minimal overlap between the world of professional sets where equipment is hired and there are lots of people on the production who all do things in the standard way, and the solo-operators who haven't worked on professional sets and don't know why things are done the way they're done.

It's worth noting that even within professional circles things like FF fetish still exists.  I recently watched an industry video with interviews of lots of cinematographers and it was clip after clip of people fawning over the magic that a larger sensor gives you with the odd clip of Steve Yedlin in there saying that there is no difference and that optics just don't work like that.  It was hilarious, but was almost embarrassing.

That made me laugh!  Yes, that's true.  

You gotta send us that video with Steve Yeldin. Would love to see it. 

[kye]

Just now, FHDcrew said:

You gotta send us that video with Steve Yeldin. Would love to see it. 

Bingo!

Enjoy.

To be fair, there's lots of things they're attributing to the sensor size that aren't related to it at all (eg, extra resolution) but in the ARRI and high-end cinema line-up they are only offered by cameras with larger sensors, so there is validity to what some of them are saying.  So while some of it is purely aesthetic, some of it is simply false attribution, but are real factors.

[IronFilm]

12 hours ago, kye said:

IIRC you've said in the past that the Alexa needed multiple people to really operate it (or at least that it wasn't a good fit for solo operators) - I remember reading somewhere in the ARRI marketing that they wanted the 35 to be an all-around camera good for all kinds of work. 

Do you think its design supports that?  Would this be usable for a solo operator?

I think the difficult part with ALEXAs is just all the factors adding up, by itself any one isn't a deal breaker though. 

But they are:

No easy access to quick audio changes. (not true for the AMIRA)

No built in ND filters. (not true for the Mini cameras and AMIRA)

The heavy weight, which in turns makes all the support equipment heavier too! (Although the Mini cameras are again of course smaller, and the AMIRA is somewhat slightly slimmer than the full size ALEXAs by a tad)

Needing a human chain of batteries supplied to it to keep it on and running (I exaggerate a little! ha, but yeah, the battery demands are quite a bit heavier than anything you'd be used to).

No info/controls on the operator side (except for the AMIRA).

So the ALEXA 35 with the Sonosax module mostly addresses all of those points, except for the battery demands which has got heavier than ever.