SOOC color - 1/2 Cameras ? Xt4 vs r6

[SRV1981]

Been trying to find a hybrid setup that really does travel, family, and sport events 70/30 video:photo

the best color I had was my Fuji XT2 but the low light and autofocus sucked. Then went to a7iii and now R6. 
 

im wondering if there’s a way to get pretty excellent SOOC color as I don’t have the time to learn color grading or time ?  Maybe canon and Sony aren’t for me if I’m not willing to learn. 
 

or maybe I need to get an xt4 for video and another camera for photo? Any thoughts? 

[MrSMW]

I can't comment on the R6 as I have never had or used a Canon camera, but do have extensive knowledge/use of Fuji X cameras professionally from 2011-2020.

I've had and used most of them which culminated in the XT3 before I moved to full frame and Panasonic.

The XT3 was superb and my only real criticism of it was it's lack of IBIS for my specific use case needs.

The XT4 solved that, but then they stuck a flippy side-hinged screen and ruined it for me.

The XH1 was also superb as a hybrid, but the XT3, other than the lack of IBIS, even better for video IMO.

Had the XT2 also back in the day and it was decent enough, but I preferred the XH1's I replaced the XT2's with...and then the XT3's which I replaced the XH1's with.

The colour/quality, SOOC with especially the recent models was great for my wedding work, - zero complaints.

Re. the AF, no real issues and that was despite using adapters and third party AF glass.

OK, not great at tracking in which case you ideally need to stick to native and the latest glass options, but not truly terrible either.

I don't see any reason why you can't use any kit, regardless of brand for 'pro' use but for my needs, I currently choose to not use Fuji, but could easily go back to it.

For non-pro use, a Fuji XT4 based system could be and is an excellent hybrid set up.

[SRV1981]

50 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

I can't comment on the R6 as I have never had or used a Canon camera, but do have extensive knowledge/use of Fuji X cameras professionally from 2011-2020.

I've had and used most of them which culminated in the XT3 before I moved to full frame and Panasonic.

The XT3 was superb and my only real criticism of it was it's lack of IBIS for my specific use case needs.

The XT4 solved that, but then they stuck a flippy side-hinged screen and ruined it for me.

The XH1 was also superb as a hybrid, but the XT3, other than the lack of IBIS, even better for video IMO.

Had the XT2 also back in the day and it was decent enough, but I preferred the XH1's I replaced the XT2's with...and then the XT3's which I replaced the XH1's with.

The colour/quality, SOOC with especially the recent models was great for my wedding work, - zero complaints.

Re. the AF, no real issues and that was despite using adapters and third party AF glass.

OK, not great at tracking in which case you ideally need to stick to native and the latest glass options, but not truly terrible either.

I don't see any reason why you can't use any kit, regardless of brand for 'pro' use but for my needs, I currently choose to not use Fuji, but could easily go back to it.

For non-pro use, a Fuji XT4 based system could be and is an excellent hybrid set up.

Thanks!  Good insight.  So I am not a professional, I am a hobbyist/enthusiast - overthinking/nerd.  

I want to create memorable and cinematic family videos, roadtrip/travel videos, and shoot the athletes I work with (indoor gyms/outdoor tracks) ... mostly video but some photo.  The SOOC color/cinematic look is by far the most important to me. I've been making mistakes jumping from system to system over a few years because I keep thinking I'm going to have the time/desire to learn to color grade etc.  But I'm conceding I do not have interest or time to do so. 

 

Option A - Figure out how to get the Canon R6 to get SOOC colors on par with Fuji

Option B - Replace the Canon R6 with an all-in-one Hybrid system that can cover my needs for SOOC color/cinematic feel

Option C - Replace the Canon R6 with a dedicated video camera and another dedicated photo camera 

I understand most are paid professionals here but that is why I come to this forum - if you were in my position or advising a close friend/family member what would you say?  

[TomTheDP]

If you like Fuji just go with that. You'll never really be able to get Canon to look like Fuji.

I personally love the Canon look and the R6 is a great choice overall.

Two cameras for family stuff seems annoying. I think Fuji is very usable up to 3200 iso which is enough for most things. Get some fast lenses.
 

[SRV1981]

1 hour ago, TomTheDP said:

If you like Fuji just go with that. You'll never really be able to get Canon to look like Fuji.

I personally love the Canon look and the R6 is a great choice overall.

Two cameras for family stuff seems annoying. I think Fuji is very usable up to 3200 iso which is enough for most things. Get some fast lenses.
 

Thanks! I should have said Option A  is really just learning from someone how to get excellent colors from Canon without using Log or Log3.  Do you have any good thoughts or references?  i'd like to just shoot and print or shoot and upload like I did with my XT2 years ago.

[webrunner5]

Probably don't want to hear it but the best SOOC  is a Smartphone hands down. And some of the newer ones even have a zoom lens in them. You can spend half your life learning how to edit ,color, or you can just get it right in camera, this case Smartphone. With LR ,PS having the enhance feature in them even the smaller 12mp sensors can get it done. And that is all you need for video.

On my Sony Xperia Pro-I in Photoshop if I do the Enhance on a DNG file from it it ends up as 203 MP file. Times have changed. I even have an old First Gen Apple SE smartphone that I have a Moondog Labs Anamorphic lens on it and it is still amazing what comes out of it. They are 4K and you can buy one for 50 Dollars, I paid 40 bucks for mine used and 19 dollars for the Anamorphic lens.

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

I understand most are paid professionals here but that is why I come to this forum - if you were in my position or advising a close friend/family member what would you say? 

With zero hesitation, I’d recommend they stuck with the R6.

You can fiddle in camera with the ‘SOOC’ output and pretty easily and quickly do a light grade.

I don’t shoot log myself and also place a very high value on SOOC for my work.

Or rather, I want a consistent output I can quickly and consistently do a light grade to myself.

That light grade simply involves whizzing through the chosen footage and making adjustments made based on colour wheels and sliders for a combo of the graphs saying it is correct combined with my own opinion.

Single grade over over the whole thing based on Film Convert Nitrate.

Single further creative LUT at 20% over that and I’m done.

I may make a few further minor tweaks to some individual clips once the grade has been overlaid, but not much or often.

But back to choice of kit… unless you really didn’t like using and cannot get out of the R6 what you’d like and have exhausted all avenues, I wouldn’t change.

I hate changing kit myself. It’s always a PITA.

I only switched from Fuji after a decade as it was relatively easy and convenient for me to do so.

Prior to that, Nikon for the previous decade.

Will I switch again? Sure, one day…maybe/never. I would need a really good reason and business case to do so and that currently does not exist.

Like so many, it doesn’t stop me looking and pondering the subject though! 🤪

[MrSMW]

4 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Probably don't want to hear it but the best SOOC  is a Smartphone hands down

A lot of truth in that for some folks needs.

For the true working pro, not.

For the keen enthusiast who is ‘into’ photography, still probably not, but the gap is definitely closing…

For most folks out there who are none of the above, almost certainly yes for no other reason than it’s so damn convenient.

Try as I might, for the last couple of years, I have tried to have a ‘personal camera’ but the reality is my phone is just more convenient.

I don’t know when, but at some point I am going to replace my: iphone8, personal camera (ZV1) and action camera (DJI Action 2) with one of the latest, probably Apple, phones with multiple lens options.

And never look back.

[webrunner5]

It is not just multiple lenses that are added it is all the Computational Math stuff, the AI, night modes, DOF stuff, IBIS, on and on.  With Fimic Pro it is pretty amazing what you can do with that also.

[TomTheDP]

8 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

It is not just multiple lenses that are added it is all the Computational Math stuff, the AI, night modes, DOF stuff, IBIS, on and on.  With Fimic Pro it is pretty amazing what you can do with that also.

if he is not happy with his Fuji in low light that smart phone isn't going to cut it.

 

1 hour ago, SRV1981 said:

Thanks! I should have said Option A  is really just learning from someone how to get excellent colors from Canon without using Log or Log3.  Do you have any good thoughts or references?  i'd like to just shoot and print or shoot and upload like I did with my XT2 years ago.

I like the colors in Canon LOG2 after just throwing a lut on. Of course you gotta get the WB right.

Fuji Autofocus has improved since the XT2 and the 10 bit H265 looks better in low light than the 8 bit coming out of the XT2, similar amounts of noise though.

[webrunner5]

8 minutes ago, TomTheDP said:

if he is not happy with his Fuji in low light that smart phone isn't going to cut it.

 

You are behind the times also I see. All the new phones have a night mode now that is pretty damn good. Probably better than most "real" cameras now. Not going to beat a Sony A7s III but.

The problem with all the cameras he is listing he will go broke buying fast good glass for them. Someone can give you a camera but what good is it if you can't afford top end glass.

[TomTheDP]

6 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

You are behind the times also I see. All the new phones have a night mode now that is pretty damn good. Probably better than most "real" cameras now. Not going to beat a Sony A7s III but.

The problem with all the cameras he is listing he will go broke buying fast good glass for them. Someone can give you a camera but what good is it if you can't afford top end glass.

There is a lot of cheap fast glass for x mount cameras. Canon R6 is more pricey being full frame but you probably don't need anything as fast seeing that it's full frame. You should share some pics at night with your smartphone. I am occasionally impressed with smartphone photos in good light but aside from that it gets dicey.

[webrunner5]

Plus, all the newer cameras have crazy fast lenses in them. f 1.6 is not uncommon anymore in them.

[webrunner5]

He is an Amateur just as I am since I retired and as most people are on here. Sure, if you are a Pro you probably aren't using a Smartphone, but for your own use why not.

Yeah, this is not Sony A7s III quality but are you going to carry a FF camera with a fast lens on it everywhere you go and are you even allowed to have it in certain places. I am not harping on them just because I just bought mine but they have come a damn long ways in the last few years, and now you can shoot Raw video on the Android ones and Pro Res on the Apple ones.

 

[webrunner5]

I bought a Sirui Anamorphic lens for my Sony Xperia few days ago. Will get it in a few days, I guess. They look pretty good in the reviews I have seen. Found one from Sirui on Amazon for $79.00 Dollars new. Couldn't turn it down. 

I am just getting too old to carry around all the big stuff needed compared to the light set ups phones need. And I can buy all I need for the price of one good FF lens. It is just a no brainer for me anymore. I don't think Netflix is waiting up all night for me to submit a block buster to them. Maybe they are for Mercer. Glenn has been working hard on his.

[Django]

I have an R6 and I find it has some of the best SOOC color science out there. 

Canon is considered a leader in that domain but the competition has mostly caught up.

That said, some people don't like Canon colors so maybe its just not for you.

Make sure you check various picture profiles though as Standard may be a bit to vivid/contrasty.

But of course for best results and a cinematic look you have to shoot Clog.

Clog is very easy to shoot with the view assist on. 

Grading Clog is also very easy and if you're a starter/amateur just go with LUTs.

Only thing is you'll need a very recent computer (M1 Mac) to edit the h265 footage.

I had an XT2 by the way and it did have a nice look thanks to the film simulations which are probably the best picture profiles out there (especially Eterna on later models).

 

@webrunner5  I don't understand, you bought a Sirui anamorphic lens.. for a Sony Xperia ? How is that even possible to interchange a lens on a smartphone? 

[SRV1981]

9 minutes ago, Django said:

I have an R6 and I find it has some of the best SOOC color science out there. 

Canon is considered a leader in that domain but the competition has mostly caught up.

That said, some people don't like Canon colors so maybe its just not for you.

Make sure you check various picture profiles though as Standard may be a bit to vivid/contrasty.

But of course for best results and a cinematic look you have to shoot Clog.

Clog is very easy to shoot with the view assist on. 

Grading Clog is also very easy and if you're a starter/amateur just go with LUTs.

Only thing is you'll need a very recent computer (M1 Mac) to edit the h265 footage.

I had an XT2 by the way and it did have a nice look thanks to the film simulations which are probably the best picture profiles out there (especially Eterna on later models).

 

@webrunner5  I don't understand, you bought a Sirui anamorphic lens.. for a Sony Xperia ? How is that even possible to interchange a lens on a smartphone? 

Do you suggest any videos or blogs to improve competency for the camera. The XT2 was legit I turned it on and boom amazing color.  I’d love to get to that point. You think the R6 color equals XT4?

[webrunner5]

16 minutes ago, Django said:

@webrunner5  I don't understand, you bought a Sirui anamorphic lens.. for a Sony Xperia ? How is that even possible to interchange a lens on a smartphone? 

This is the lens I bought, I hope you where not thinking of a FF version!

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07KD2XJD1?ref=ppx_pt2_dt_b_prod_image

And this is the Cage I am going to use to hold the lens.

https://www.smallrig.com/smallrig-professional-universal-mobile-phone-cage-cpu2494.html

[webrunner5]

And here is a great video that shows what a Smartphone can do if you don't leave it on auto, it is not too bad even on auto. They are better than most people think these days. And this one is 3 years old not the newest like I have.

 

[kye]

10 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

I understand most are paid professionals here but that is why I come to this forum - if you were in my position or advising a close friend/family member what would you say?  

Actually, there are a few vocal pros posting here of late, but the majority are not pros.

You mentioned not wanting to learn colour, but @Djangos advice is right - shoot in LOG and just use a LUT.

The reason that SOOC doesn't work with "cinematic" and "family" and "video" is that SOOC profiles have limited dynamic range and this has a very video look to it, which is the opposite of cinematic.  It is possible to get great looking SOOC footage, but you have to control your lighting and guess what - that's not what you're doing when you shoot family stuff!

Shoot LOG and use a LUT or transform.

"learning colour" isn't what you think it is either.  "learning colour" is kind of like saying "learning painting".  It takes 2 minutes to learn to hold a brush and paint stick figures, and many lifetimes to learn to paint like Rembrandt.  If you want your footage to look cinematic then you're going to at least have to learn how to adjust whitebalance in post.  One of the least cinematic looking things I see is when people don't do that on their videos.

6 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

He is an Amateur just as I am since I retired and as most people are on here. Sure, if you are a Pro you probably aren't using a Smartphone, but for your own use why not.

Yeah, this is not Sony A7s III quality but are you going to carry a FF camera with a fast lens on it everywhere you go and are you even allowed to have it in certain places. I am not harping on them just because I just bought mine but they have come a damn long ways in the last few years, and now you can shoot Raw video on the Android ones and Pro Res on the Apple ones.

 

What about video?  OP said he's 70% video and 30% stills.