SOOC color - 1/2 Cameras ? Xt4 vs r6

[webrunner5]

Damn most of them are out of focus. Yikes. I sort of like the coloring, exposure but everyone has different tastes.

[SRV1981]

5 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

Damn most of them are out of focus. Yikes. I sort of like the coloring, exposure but everyone has different tastes.

They are in focus - but I took a screenshot on my mac from a video, but if you want the video it's in focus.  The color is what I'm after, I find it stunning.  I would think an R6 could get pretty damn close to the c70 they're using but i'm not sure my skillset is up to par and not sure if the time would be intensive.  

I was considering a Fuji since the SOOC are pretty stunning; so i'm in a bit of pickle

[webrunner5]

I would buy a BMPCC 4K and just learn how to edit and color. They have aa pretty great output. With Raw you can make it look like just about anything. It is not the easy way out, but if you want a great look you have to learn to figure out how to do it. 

All these people you admire didn't just go out buy a cheap camera and make magic overnight. It takes years to get a certain look that stands out from the crowd. Video is not easy.

[Django]

I think OP needs to understand that to achieve those looks it's a lot more work than just what camera model is being used. 

Everything is actually broken down in that video: C70 shooting Clog2, 28-70F2, Aputure lights. Graded in Resolve (5 node tree). 

The C70 itself has a DGO sensor that gives you extra DR and clean shadows. R6 in contrast has pretty poor DR.

Clog2 is also the most flat profile, most ideal for grading. R6 has Clog3 which is pretty close.

The 28-70F2 is a jewel of a lens ($3,500). 

Lighting can go long ways, ND filters etc and finally the grading process which they say can take from 5 hours to 2 weeks depending on the project.

So yeah that's quite a bit of gear, work and skill to get there. Getting great cinematic image quality is a lot more than just having good color science or the right camera body. Every step of the way counts and you will certainly not achieve that look SOOC.

I love the R6 and you can get close to that look with the right tools (lens, lighting, grading) shooting Clog3. But you're definitely going to have to learn a few things. There is no magic "cinematic" mode like on iPhone13.

[SRV1981]

1 hour ago, Django said:

I think OP needs to understand that to achieve those looks it's a lot more work than just what camera model is being used. 

Everything is actually broken down in that video: C70 shooting Clog2, 28-70F2, Aputure lights. Graded in Resolve (5 node tree). 

The C70 itself has a DGO sensor that gives you extra DR and clean shadows. R6 in contrast has pretty poor DR.

Clog2 is also the most flat profile, most ideal for grading. R6 has Clog3 which is pretty close.

The 28-70F2 is a jewel of a lens ($3,500). 

Lighting can go long ways, ND filters etc and finally the grading process which they say can take from 5 hours to 2 weeks depending on the project.

So yeah that's quite a bit of gear, work and skill to get there. Getting great cinematic image quality is a lot more than just having good color science or the right camera body. Every step of the way counts and you will certainly not achieve that look SOOC.

I love the R6 and you can get close to that look with the right tools (lens, lighting, grading) shooting Clog3. But you're definitely going to have to learn a few things. There is no magic "cinematic" mode like on iPhone13.

Yea i'm slowly resigning myself to learn how to use log, luts, and some color grading.   Do you think the R6 will be feasible for an amateur hobbyist or would an XT4/x100V be a better platform (less grading knowledge needed)

[Django]

6 minutes ago, SRV1981 said:

Yea i'm slowly resigning myself to learn how to use log, luts, and some color grading.   Do you think the R6 will be feasible for an amateur hobbyist or would an XT4/x100V be a better platform (less grading knowledge needed)

Grading knowledge will be more less the same no matter what system you are on. I suggest indeed starting with just log, LUTs and simple curve/color adjustments.

I don't think I'd chose my camera system purely based on those credentials. Going Fuji is APS-C and brings other pros/cons.

That said, what I can tell you is Clog is very easy to shoot with on R6 thanks to the Rec709 View Assist and Clog is also very easy to grade with numerous existing LUTs.

Fuji Flog is much less popular, so maybe requires a bit more effort. Or maybe you are just planning on using the film simulations like Eterna and shoot SOOC. In that case Fuji will be a lot less skill demanding.

 

[SRV1981]

12 minutes ago, Django said:

Grading knowledge will be more less the same no matter what system you are on. I suggest indeed starting with just log, LUTs and simple curve/color adjustments.

I don't think I'd chose my camera system purely based on those credentials. Going Fuji is APS-C and brings other pros/cons.

That said, what I can tell you is Clog is very easy to shoot with on R6 thanks to the Rec709 View Assist and Clog is also very easy to grade with numerous existing LUTs.

Fuji Flog is much less popular, so maybe requires a bit more effort. Or maybe you are just planning on using the film simulations like Eterna and shoot SOOC. In that case Fuji will be a lot less skill demanding.

 

So i'll give Clog3 a go before I plan to jump ship.  I was thinking of picking up the x100v for a daily driver/travel cam so I can check out the profiles they offer.

I am currently on an M1 mac and have access to FCP - though I hear people Resolve is the best, I will start there.  Thanks

[kye]

10 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

The files labeled "Video" are from the c70 they used and I find it to be absolutely stunning, If i could achieve that on my R6 I would keep it and ask how to do this.

(1st three that pop up are x100v; rest are c70)

The rest are from the Fuji X100V, which I was wondering if I should pick up for photography and use R6 for video? - I reached out to the guy that edited these because I find them to be amazing.

As @Django said - you can't get colour like this without knowing how to properly expose and how to do at least basic colour work.

These people are probably using a strong look LUT (it has that feel), but the saving grace for you is that they don't seem to really be that good at colour matching, so that seems to skew it in the direction of their look being more towards the LUT and less away from it being manually done in Resolve.  A skilled colourist would probably be able to replicate this look in a few minutes by doing it manually.

7 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

So i'll give Clog3 a go before I plan to jump ship.  I was thinking of picking up the x100v for a daily driver/travel cam so I can check out the profiles they offer.

I am currently on an M1 mac and have access to FCP - though I hear people Resolve is the best, I will start there.  Thanks

C-Log3 on your R6 is definitely the way to go, especially because you already have it and it's essentially free.

When you're starting out in Resolve I suggest the following node tree to get you going:

• Node one: use this for manual adjustments to the clip like White Balance / exposure / contrast
• Node two: use an OFX plugin (which comes with Resolve) called Colour Space Transform (CST) and set it to Input of Canon C-Log 3 / Canon colour and output of Cineon gamma and rec709 colour
• Node three: use the one of the LUTs in the Film Emulation folder that come with Resolve - these all have different looks but you'll probably find one that you like enough to get you started (there are some Fuji film stock emulations in there you might like)

Apply that node tree to every clip and then on each clip you need to adjust the first node so that each shot looks good.  This process is called "grading under the LUT" and it's common to do things this way (pros do it this way) and unless you are manually exposing and lighting each shot (which you're not) then you'll need to adjust each shot separately to match.

On that first node I'd suggest starting out with by adjusting the Contrast / Pivot / Offset / Temp / Tint / Saturation controls.  These work as a set and should give you most of the control that you're looking for without being too complicated.  

The combination of the above technique (only using the controls I've mentioned) and your R6 in C-Log-3 is capable of creating world-class images, but will be limited to how well you are shooting the material.  If you're not getting good results from that, work on your shooting (proper exposure and WB) and work on your technique.

The internet is full of people selling you things, so they push the agenda that getting good results is complicated so that you'll buy the results from them instead of learning to do it yourself.  This is BS.  Getting good results is about mastering the fundamentals.  Remember that 10,000 hour rule?  Practice makes better....      Good luck.

[SRV1981]

14 hours ago, kye said:

As @Django said - you can't get colour like this without knowing how to properly expose and how to do at least basic colour work.

These people are probably using a strong look LUT (it has that feel), but the saving grace for you is that they don't seem to really be that good at colour matching, so that seems to skew it in the direction of their look being more towards the LUT and less away from it being manually done in Resolve.  A skilled colourist would probably be able to replicate this look in a few minutes by doing it manually.

C-Log3 on your R6 is definitely the way to go, especially because you already have it and it's essentially free.

When you're starting out in Resolve I suggest the following node tree to get you going:

• Node one: use this for manual adjustments to the clip like White Balance / exposure / contrast
• Node two: use an OFX plugin (which comes with Resolve) called Colour Space Transform (CST) and set it to Input of Canon C-Log 3 / Canon colour and output of Cineon gamma and rec709 colour
• Node three: use the one of the LUTs in the Film Emulation folder that come with Resolve - these all have different looks but you'll probably find one that you like enough to get you started (there are some Fuji film stock emulations in there you might like)

Apply that node tree to every clip and then on each clip you need to adjust the first node so that each shot looks good.  This process is called "grading under the LUT" and it's common to do things this way (pros do it this way) and unless you are manually exposing and lighting each shot (which you're not) then you'll need to adjust each shot separately to match.

On that first node I'd suggest starting out with by adjusting the Contrast / Pivot / Offset / Temp / Tint / Saturation controls.  These work as a set and should give you most of the control that you're looking for without being too complicated.  

The combination of the above technique (only using the controls I've mentioned) and your R6 in C-Log-3 is capable of creating world-class images, but will be limited to how well you are shooting the material.  If you're not getting good results from that, work on your shooting (proper exposure and WB) and work on your technique.

The internet is full of people selling you things, so they push the agenda that getting good results is complicated so that you'll buy the results from them instead of learning to do it yourself.  This is BS.  Getting good results is about mastering the fundamentals.  Remember that 10,000 hour rule?  Practice makes better....      Good luck.

thanks, i'll need to reread and digest this.  Is this process possible  on FCP or would i have to purchase and learn resolve?

[kye]

15 hours ago, SRV1981 said:

thanks, i'll need to reread and digest this.  Is this process possible  on FCP or would i have to purchase and learn resolve?

No idea about FCPX.

[webrunner5]

The free version of Resolve lacks very little compared to the paid Studio version. For someone new I doubt you would need what is missing.

[leslie]

If  you can find one talented persons work, which you like, then i would suggest in the background,, is a lot of blood, sweat and tears over a number of years to get to that look.

Canons do have nice colour. A lot of people like canon colours, then there are others who like sony, and the other brands. My point being is personally, i don't think you can go wrong with any of the latest makes of camera.  Its more about the finessing that you need to apply after the image / footage is taken to get a result you like.

Lots of people out there are happy to throw on a lut and call it a day.  If your not happy with colours sooc Then you, my friend have definitely fallen down a rabbits warren. 

There is no one perfect camera that does everything spectacularly.  If there was then there would only be one camera brand. You do your research  and pick the camera that does most of what you need it to do and then compromise in other areas.

 I would suggest before you throw any money around get the free version of resolve.

 With resolve and some free luts and whatever log files, canon has on your camera. Start exploring, learn resolve and throw all sorts of footage at it from your camera while your learning. exhaust every option you can pursue in finding a look you like before spending too much money.  It will be time well spent and helps to define the look your after.

There is a chance your look may even come back to a lens choice or filter perhaps. 

There's a bit of a learning curve to resolve, but that can be said of everything.  There are truckloads of tutorials available on  youtube for resolve. There are probably more than a few ways to skin a cat in resolve ( metaphorically speaking of course ). Like kye said there are basic steps to follow.

Once your comfortable you can probably tailor your workflow to suit your look for a minimum of effort. However you first need to expend some effort to realize the look your after.

[webrunner5]

@leslie is right. You would be amazed what difference a high end lens makes on a camera. Buy a cheap camera and a heck of a good lens. Any camera made in the last 6 years or so is all the camera a newer person needs.

I have owned just about every model iPhone since they have been out and a lot of the Samsung Note phones, and I did a test with my wife and son when he was over and I, and them, liked the old Apple iPhone 6s plus shots better than any phone I have ever owned. So that can tell you that we have reached a peak in quality and we are sort of wasting our time buying the latest and greatest.

Now granted phone photos are pretty hyped colors and saturation, Olympus cameras were like that also OOC, But the average person really likes that look.

The picture below my car with the wooden roof is from my 6s Plus in Arizona. And that has not much editing done to it.

 

 

[webrunner5]

The only thing bad about Resolve is that you can not do Pro Res with it. You have to have an Apple computer and Final Cut Pro to do it. And the latest FCP is pretty damn expensive. And you really need the new M1 apple stuff to edit well in this day and age.

[Django]

@webrunner5 You can export to all ProRes flavours in Resolve, even free version. On a Mac at least that is..

[webrunner5]

Yeah, I forgot about that. Thanks.

[PannySVHS]

3 hours ago, Django said:

@webrunner5 You can export to all ProRes flavours in Resolve, even free version. On a Mac at least that is..

Yeah, on windows there is no Prores export as of Davinci 17. Dont know if 18 changed that.

@webrunner5 One main disadvantage of Davinci free version is that it does not accept certain codecs such as the 10bit codecs from the GH5 and I assume from other cameras as well. That is not too minor imo. Another reason to go vintage and put a BMCC or BMMCC to good use in its Prores glory. 🙂 

[PannySVHS]

To get back on topic. Here some Fuji Jpeg glory from our friend @Alpicat, which I found when browsing his youtube channel a few days ago.

 

 

[kye]

7 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

The only thing bad about Resolve is that you can not do Pro Res with it. You have to have an Apple computer and Final Cut Pro to do it. And the latest FCP is pretty damn expensive. And you really need the new M1 apple stuff to edit well in this day and age.

You're probably thinking of Prores RAW, which Resolve doesn't support.  Normal prores has full support though.  I've noticed that people online often say Prores when they mean Prores RAW and it's quite confusing as they're definitely not the same.

[MrSMW]

On 5/29/2022 at 8:09 AM, leslie said:

My point being is personally, i don't think you can go wrong with any of the latest makes of camera.  Its more about the finessing that you need to apply after the image / footage is taken to get a result you like.

Along with ensuring you maximize the capture in the first place, ie, not hanging it all on fixing in post.

But otherwise yes, pretty much all cameras for some time have the potential in this regard and the choices really come down to; badge, ergos, build, size, weight, price and yes, some elements of the spec, but otherwise…