Canon EOS R7 and R10 have released...

[Django]

I agree with you there, although nothing seems to really beat those flagship DSLRs in terms of tank like build quality.

It's all about portability now which means my R6 lives inside a cage.

The new thumbwheel placement around the joystick is also rather bizarre.

[zerocool22]

A bit early I guess, but would love to see a side by side with the panasonic s5. Def shooting underexposed and bringing it back up in post.

(Also DR wise)

I love my s5, but would love to get my hands on that canon DPAF for vlogging purposes, would save me so much time.

 

[hyalinejim]

DPReview have a video review shot on R7. The footage looks lovely.

However, they say 4k crop is soft, 4k non fine is soft, HD 120p is soft.

Also, histogram and audio meters disappear when you hit record. 

[ntblowz]

Leaked photo of the 22mm f2 rf-s 

 

[kye]

On 5/24/2022 at 4:54 PM, Avenger 2.0 said:

The R7 combined with the Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 and Variable ND EF to RF Adapter could potentially be a killer combo 😎 Of course the big question is, how soon will it overheat and recover.

....and if they did their temperature tests in a freezer or in the real world.

On 5/24/2022 at 8:39 PM, Django said:

well this came out of nowhere !? seems like you've got the usual Canon limitations when you check the fine print:

 

The R7's cropped 4K/60 applies a 1.81x crop on top of the sensor's existing 1.6x crop, relative to full-frame. This will be useful for achieving a zoomed-in look but means you're using just 1/4 of the camera's sensor, so there'll be a significant noise cost in all but the best light.

The oversampled 4K 'Fine' setting can record for approximately 30 minutes. There are no thermal limits listed for the sub-sampled or cropped modes.

 

so it's not just a 1.8x crop its 1.8x on top of 1.6x  🙄

and the 7K oversampled 4K overheats under 30mn.

so that leaves you with: line-skipped uncropped 4K.

 

C70 has the best DR of any Canon cam thanks to the DGO sensor. Also has Clog2. 4K120p no crop. Canon RAW Light.

Only thing R7 has over it is oversampled 4K but yeah it'll be interesting to compare.

I'm curious if C70s speed booster will be compatible too.

@mercer - here's the Canon S16 camera you always dreamed of!

22 hours ago, MrSMW said:

Somewhere, someone is asking the question, “this or the new Arri? I shoot kids sports games, cats and feature films”.

Don't be silly - everyone knows that shooting kids sports games just needs a lot of reach and high fps, while feature films require a significantly improved image, leaving cats to be the most demanding of all.

Maybe a hybrid for the sports and films and the new Alexa for the cats?

1 hour ago, hyalinejim said:

DPReview have a video review shot on R7. The footage looks lovely.

However, they say 4k crop is soft, 4k non fine is soft, HD 120p is soft.

Also, histogram and audio meters disappear when you hit record. 

Sounds about right..  unless RAW it's soft, soft, soft.

Overlays disappearing also sounds about right.  I wonder if anyone at Canon has a full grasp of which features work in combination with each other feature and mode?  It would have to be a 27-dimensional matrix of some kind.  I don't think even quantum computing can keep up with the complexities....

[mercer]

Just to be clear... the egregious crop is only one of the versions of 4K 60p, right? So unless you shoot 4K 60p and process it on a 60p timeline, it isn't the end of the world. 

[jbCinC_12]

Since it’s APS-C camera, is close to Super35 territory, like the Fuji XT3/4?

[Django]

8 hours ago, mercer said:

Just to be clear... the egregious crop is only one of the versions of 4K 60p, right? So unless you shoot 4K 60p and process it on a 60p timeline, it isn't the end of the world. 

Correct, the crop only applies to the 1:1 readout 4K60p mode.

Of course it isn't end of the world. You should know by now people here just love to sh!t on Canon and focus on every little shortcoming.

This isn't a bad offering for their first gen APS-C RF models.

R7 destroys any Sony A6xxx cam both in specs and ergonomics.

The specs are actually very close to XT4 but with a 7K oversampled mode (and it beats it on stills side & AF).

 

[Thomas Hill]

1 hour ago, Django said:

R7 destroys any Sony A6xxx cam both in specs and ergonomics.

So does the R10 with its internal 422 10bit. No Sony A6xxx even does 422/10 externally.

AND the R10 is less than $1k (US).

[mercer]

3 hours ago, Django said:

Correct, the crop only applies to the 1:1 readout 4K60p mode.

Of course it isn't end of the world. You should know by now people here just love to sh!t on Canon and focus on every little shortcoming.

This isn't a bad offering for their first gen APS-C RF models.

R7 destroys any Sony A6xxx cam both in specs and ergonomics.

The specs are actually very close to XT4 but with a 7K oversampled mode (and it beats it on stills side & AF).

 

Thanks, I thought that's what I read. I know @kye was joking, but I think he could be onto something with his Canon S16 joke... this could be a great opportunity for Canon to offer a S16 1080p Canon RawLite codec. I have a few old c-mounts that would love to see some daylight, some Canon color... and some IBIS.

[PannySVHS]

I must insist the S16 joke is from me. But even funnier my splendid comparison of lineskipped 4k with the perfect HD from the GH5.😊 @mercer

Canon R7 and R10 compete with a Panasonic GH5 or G9, both on the used market for 600 EUR, both with class leading battery life and stabilization, best ergonomics and sturdyness, perfect HD, 4k above 30p is 8bit though. But since 1080 60p might look as good as 4k60 on the Canons..😆

Buuut if HD up to 60p is good quality and if the image has the dynamic range, organic gentleness, colour quality and grading potential of the C300MKII, without the mushyness and noise reduction in low light, then we have two great image takers here.

[mercer]

11 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

I must insist the S16 joke is from me. But even funnier my splendid comparison of lineskipped 4k with the perfect HD from the GH5.😊 @mercer

Canon R7 and R10 compete with a Panasonic GH5 or G9, both on the used market for 600 EUR, both with class leading battery life and stabilization, best ergonomics and sturdyness, perfect HD, 4k above 30p is 8bit though. But since 1080 60p might look as good as 4k60 on the Canons..😆

Buuut if HD up to 60p is good quality and if the image has the dynamic range, organic gentleness, colour quality and grading potential of the C300MKII, without the mushyness and noise reduction in low light, then we have two great image takers here.

Well, if you insist.

I wouldn't say they're competing at all with the GH5/G9 due to the sensor size. Obviously, the GH5 is a great camera, but it's strengths lie solely in video, where the R7 is more of a hybrid camera. It will be better in lowlight, have better color, it includes a Log profile at no extra cost, and it will have great AF.

Actually, Canon always gets a bad rap around here, but Panasonic should be ashamed of themselves for selling the GH5 for $1300 over 5 years after release.

[PannySVHS]

Found a brandnew Gh5 for 1049 EU, used ones as low as 600. They have HLG which is nice to grade in my experience. Having to pay for VLog is not a smart business move from Panasonic though. Have yet to see a camera below 5000USD which beats the GH5 image by a margin if grading is involved. They all look pretty nice. Ease of color work in post might be another thing.

Usuability and sturdiness  are great on the Panas. If Canon got that right plus their AF they have winners. In general I agree with you on these cams, Glenn. They are interesting cameras at an interesting price. Full Hdmi? 😉

[mercer]

32 minutes ago, PannySVHS said:

Found a brandnew Gh5 for 1049 EU, used ones as low as 600. They have HLG which is nice to grade in my experience. Having to pay for VLog is not a smart business move from Panasonic though. Have yet to see a camera below 5000USD which beats the GH5 image by a margin if grading is involved. They all look pretty nice. Ease of color work in post might be another thing.

Usuability and sturdiness  are great on the Panas. If Canon got that right plus their AF they have winners. In general I agree with you on these cams, Glenn. They are interesting cameras at an interesting price. Full Hdmi? 😉

My friend has a GH5, I've shot with it on a number of occasions. It's a fine camera. Fun to shoot with. 5 years ago I chose the 5D3/ML Raw over the GH5... 5 years later... I'd make the same decision.

But I'm not the normal customer... I have my 5D3 and a BMMCC that I RARELY use. I was hoping for the rumored XC20 with RawLite would be released and I would have bought it to fulfill my desire for a CineCorder. Shooting Raw on my 5D3 has spoiled me for most cameras. The FP is kinda good, but an R5C, R3 or 1DX3 would make a lot more sense but they're way out of my price range. So I soldier on with my trusty old 5D3.

[Django]

R7 is a true APS-C hybrid: 32MP stills camera & 7K supersampled 10-bit 4K Clog3. With the best AF in the game.

XT4 is currently its only competitor and $300 more expensive with less MP/resolution and not as sophisticated AF.

XH2S should be announced next week with some big video features expected (6K / 4K120p) but will run you $2500 and its expected to require an external active cooling kit (similar to the Tilta one for R5) to not overheat. 

So stay tuned for more APS-C announcements..

 

[newfoundmass]

Canon deserves every bit of criticism it gets, but people are being a little too critical here. If the 4K Fine mode overheats and makes the camera inoperable like it did with the R5 and R6 I'll change my tune, but an hour of 7K downsampled to 4K 24/30p with dual pixel autofocus for $1500 seems reasonable. If you shoot HD or absolutely need 60P then this camera isn't for you, which is a bummer, but that's how it is sometimes. 

These definitely aren't cameras for my kind of work, but neither are the Sony or Fuji APS-C offerings. It doesn't mean they're awful, it just means they're not for me.

[newfoundmass]

4 minutes ago, Django said:

Panasonic users just love to plug their cameras in every Canon thread. 

The funniest is they usually conveniently leave out any mention of AF.

I mean, autofocus doesn't really matter if a camera can't be used due to overheating. I think these are decent offerings, but you don't have to be too positive or too negative, it's okay to be neutral and take a wait and see approach.

[mercer]

Panasonic deserves a ton of credit for what they offer at the $2000 and under price point for filmmakers. Blackmagic as well. Canon and Sony, and especially Nikon, would be smart to get into that market.

If they'd only realize that there is a good little market for a $2000 raw video camera that shoots 3K, they could hook aspiring filmmakers into their ecosystem.

[newfoundmass]

The only real thing holding Panasonic back is the autofocus. It's what the market demands, whether us Panny users care about it or not. If they had comparable autofocus to Sony or Canon I think they'd have lured a lot of people away. They are superior video cameras in every other way.

[mercer]

Idk, there's something soulless about shooting with a Panasonic. It feels like a machine in some ways. I started shooting film stills and although the camera is almost unimportant when you shoot film, certain cameras feel like an extension of your arm. I never felt that with any Panasonic camera. But I have with every Canon, Nikon and even Olympus I've ever owned/shot with. Perhaps it's the longer history those companies have in the camera industry... I don't know, but it's quickly evident.