Canon EOS R7 and R10 have released...

[PannySVHS]

I see a S1H, S1, S5 or GH5/6 as a cinema camera such as those from blackmagic. Great image, ergonomics, built quality and battery.

Best AF in video for those who need it, no. Best image quality and codec, image stabilisation and camera bodies, yes, Panasonic. S5 going for only 300eur higher than a R7, offering a true cinema image and best in class low light latitude. Plus pixel to pixel S35 4K 24-60p, besides full frame downsampled 4k 24-30p.

For Canon AF fans with 10bit love and good 4k up to 30p, the R7 looks fine.

[MrSMW]

9 hours ago, IronFilm said:

Unfortunately that can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Yes indeed and when that happens, is it the sellers fault, or that of the marketplace?

I tend to be think the blame lies with the seller because if anything is desirable enough, it tends to sell itself.

Panasonic have a perhaps critical issue…but of course we don’t know what is going on behind the scenes.

And then not to be racist, but there is a certain Japanese approach to business that can sometimes hurt their image/sales, - resistance to do anything but a certain way.

I suspect…or at least hope, there is going to be a next gen S line and perhaps something if not available, at least announced later this year.

Will it be enough to turn things around for them, specifically their image?

Depends on 2 factors: AF and to a slightly lesser degree, size and weight.

Many folks will tolerate the latter as we’re not talking anything that significant in reality, but the AF issue (or perceived AF issue or however you wish to phrase it) I reckon will make or break them.

Last Chance Saloon I’m pretty sure.

I guess we’ll see some time in the future…

[MrSMW]

Double post

[herein2020]

12 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Assuming there's not too much of a difference between adapted EF and native RF lenses, I'd probably end up using adapted lenses anyway on the R7, so I don't think it's a huge deal that the lens selection is limited right now. I'd maybe even get full frame lenses anyway, mostly primes, in the event I upgraded to a full frame camera in the future. 

I imagine the Sigma 18-35mm will be a popular lens on the R7, for example. 

Its funny you mention that lens, I actually have that lens and completely forgot about it. I got it for my C200 and have barely used it since. That would actually be a great lens for the R7 with the EF adapter.

[Kisaha]

On 6/25/2022 at 11:01 PM, ntblowz said:

 

 

I found a pre-ordered R7 that stayed 2 days in the shop and the owner seems reluctant to go get it (maybe he has Fuji glass!)..if that be the case for tomorrow, I may have it at the end of the week..

The adapter is included as a gift from Canon, ordered the 16mm as well and an extra battery..

The lenses are not an issue if someone has EF glass, and we all know what EF glass means for the industry, everyone has some, and I am certain there will be a lot of RF-S releases in the future and additional RF ones..

I will be starting slowly with the system and I will see where it gets me. The thing is, Canon is now relevant, which wasn't 3-4 years ago..well done Canon!

[hyalinejim]

@Kisaha Well done, good luck and post your results!

[herein2020]

2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

 

I found a pre-ordered R7 that stayed 2 days in the shop and the owner seems reluctant to go get it (maybe he has Fuji glass!)..if that be the case for tomorrow, I may have it at the end of the week..

The adapter is included as a gift from Canon, ordered the 16mm as well and an extra battery..

The lenses are not an issue if someone has EF glass, and we all know what EF glass means for the industry, everyone has some, and I am certain there will be a lot of RF-S releases in the future and additional RF ones..

I will be starting slowly with the system and I will see where it gets me. The thing is, Canon is now relevant, which wasn't 3-4 years ago..well done Canon!

That's great news, would love to see your thoughts on body, build quality, and low light.

[Kisaha]

Thank you guys, if that guy shows up tomorrow though..I am going to be put on a really big list!

I was lucky today go in there, seeing the box, asked specifically for that box at the back of the counter (big box also..), and I tried for the kill!.

Hope have the same luck tomorrow!

[Kisaha]

No such thing as a good luck..they just got it..next delivery unknown..this camera will be the hit of the summer!

[Avenger 2.0]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agTLsPoIYis

The low light performance looks really nice 😎

[Avenger 2.0]

Did some pro/cons for myself after watching some video's as I'm thinking of getting the R7 for photo/video combo.

Pro:
- 32 MP sensor and good low light for an APS-C
- Dual SD (backup recording also for video), R3 level autofocus
- Multi-function Hotshoe (Tascam CA-XLR2d, etc)
- Canon/Viltrox speedbooster (0,71x) & VND adapter works

Cons:
- No ALL-I, but only IPB / IPB-light
- No battery grip possible (as body is smaller then 2 batteries)
- Only 2 control wheels, not 3 like R5/R6, no top LCD
- Build quality / weather sealing not like 7D-series, more like XXD-series

[herein2020]

17 hours ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agTLsPoIYis

The low light performance looks really nice 😎

 

Now that is impressive, I had a sneaking suspicion that the R7 would be good in lowlight, it looks about on par with the C70 in low light.

 

5 hours ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

Did some pro/cons for myself after watching some video's as I'm thinking of getting the R7 for photo/video combo.

Pro:
- 32 MP sensor and good low light for an APS-C
- Dual SD (backup recording also for video), R3 level autofocus
- Multi-function Hotshoe (Tascam CA-XLR2d, etc)
- Canon/Viltrox speedbooster (0,71x) & VND adapter works

Cons:
- No ALL-I, but only IPB / IPB-light
- No battery grip possible (as body is smaller then 2 batteries)
- Only 2 control wheels, not 3 like R5/R6, no top LCD
- Build quality / weather sealing not like 7D-series, more like XXD-series

 

The Pro list might be longer than you think:

Pro:
- 32 MP sensor and good low light for an APS-C
- Dual SD (backup recording also for video), R3 level autofocus
- Multi-function Hotshoe (Tascam CA-XLR2d, etc)
- Canon/Viltrox speedbooster (0,71x) & VND adapter works

• Cheap Media - SD Cards vs CFExpress
• Batteries - Same as the R5, R6, 5DIV, etc....if you have Canon DSLR batteries laying around they will work for the R7
• Lens - Massive lens ecosystem from day one (RF, RF-S, EF, EF-S) with full AF capabilities
• Price - IMO very good price for what you get
• Overheating - So far overheating seems to be well controlled
• AF - Looks like R3's AF capabilities and even includes auto leveling which I don't think even the R3 has
• Battery Life - No battery grip but 2.5hrs recording video with 50% battery remaining is quite impressive to me

I have a few more cons as well

Cons:
- No ALL-I, but only IPB / IPB-light
- No battery grip possible (as body is smaller then 2 batteries)
- Only 2 control wheels, not 3 like R5/R6, no top LCD
- Build quality / weather sealing not like 7D-series, more like XXD-series

• USB-PD - Requires a USB-PD power source, not just a USB-C power source
• Crop - Like with any crop sensor you will always have to work around the crop
• Speedbooster - The Canon C70 speedbooster is $700USD, almost as expensive as the camera and it is unknown at this time if it is fully compatible with the R7. 
• Codecs - No XF-AVC so unless you have an M1 Mac, that footage will be hard to edit without proxies

For me no ALL-I is not a big deal, I never use ALL-I due to the data rates and storage requirements. All ALL-I does is makes it easier to edit, no real increase in image quality. 

I can only imagine how poor the body quality will be, for this reason alone I would almost rather wait and test it out in a store before buying it. My built like a tank DSLRs really got me used to that level of body quality.

[ade towell]

A big pro for me is no 30 minute limit recording

Biggest con is the lower quality 4k50p unless you take a big crop

Solid camera though for 4k25p

[herein2020]

2 hours ago, ade towell said:

A big pro for me is no 30 minute limit recording

Biggest con is the lower quality 4k50p unless you take a big crop

Solid camera though for 4k25p

I forgot about that 4K60FPS and additional crop. You would almost need a fisheye to work with that crop. Maybe the line skipping looks so bad because its side by side with the cropped version. Maybe in the real world the line skipping is fine for weddings and social media content work.

[webrunner5]

What the hell is the deal with Canon and their damn crops in 4K. Do they really want to screw everyone that doesn't have a clue about it? They have turned into a whore company out to F everybody that is dumb enough to buy their cheap crap, and by cheap I mean under like 2500 bucks. The CEO needs to have his balls cut off.

[hyalinejim]

14 minutes ago, webrunner5 said:

They have turned into a whore company out to F everybody that is dumb enough to buy their cheap crap

And their expensive crap!

Yes, I agree with you. They weren't always like this.

[Kisaha]

I read a rumour today that Canon is planning an R7C for 2023!!

That rumour made me pause. I have an R7 on pre order, but I am in no big hurry for another camera..but of course it's just a rumour..I am split at the moment.

I can live with most of the cons, it is a middle priced camera after all, but the codec could be problematic, and I do not usually work with proxies.

There are cheaper Chinese speedboosters around. The Canon vND adapter is quite bad for 500€, so I have lost faith in their accessories.

 

[ntblowz]

5 hours ago, herein2020 said:

I forgot about that 4K60FPS and additional crop. You would almost need a fisheye to work with that crop. Maybe the line skipping looks so bad because its side by side with the cropped version. Maybe in the real world the line skipping is fine for weddings and social media content work.

I think the R5 is also line skipping 4k60p? For music videos and general content it is totally fine, only when shooting real estate with some textured furniture you can see the pixel edges.  That's the only time I can see the inferior 4k60p.

 

And we only shoot RAW on one project, most of the time it's ipb or ipb light since editing ALL-I on Nas drive is totally no go.. it just make us all laggy (that is with 10gb ethernet and ssd priority drive) with 3 editors using at same time.

[ntblowz]

2 hours ago, Kisaha said:

I read a rumour today that Canon is planning an R7C for 2023!!

That rumour made me pause. I have an R7 on pre order, but I am in no big hurry for another camera..but of course it's just a rumour..I am split at the moment.

I can live with most of the cons, it is a middle priced camera after all, but the codec could be problematic, and I do not usually work with proxies.

There are cheaper Chinese speedboosters around. The Canon vND adapter is quite bad for 500€, so I have lost faith in their accessories.

 

 

I still think a R6C (or with R3 sensor) is actually the most sense for most people than R5C or even R7C. It will be like the A7S of Canon but with oversampled 4k and better lowlight than most Canon offering on video, battery life should better since the chip doesn't have to work very hard on 8K data, and RAW is not ridiculous large since it is only 5K for people like shooting RAW.

 

I recently finished a multicam project that shoot on 4k25/50p with 2 Panna and 2 Canon (500gb data), edit it on the cheapest mba m1 7gpu with 8gb and 256gb ssd and 2tb external ssd. I really pushed very hard on this little Mac lol. I didn't use proxy at all.

[kye]

6 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

What the hell is the deal with Canon and their damn crops in 4K. Do they really want to screw everyone that doesn't have a clue about it? They have turned into a whore company out to F everybody that is dumb enough to buy their cheap crap, and by cheap I mean under like 2500 bucks. The CEO needs to have his balls cut off.

This is a common thing (having crops for faster frame rates) - just look at the RED cameras like the Komodo.  I also understand it's a common thing for larger sensors and higher resolutions as they have longer readout speeds.

There are two ways to build a camera image pipeline:

The first is where you read the whole sensor, then downsample that to the target resolution, then compress it.
This requires significant processing power.

The second is where you read the target resolution off the sensor, either by cropping into it, or by skipping / binning pixels on the sensor.  This skips the downsampling stage.

The other optimisation is to compress the image to a less processor-intensive codec, or to not compress it at all (RAW).

Canon cameras (and RED) employ various elements of the above, including the crop / skip and the non/low-compression.  The compression is one reason that Canon cinema cameras and their higher costing cameras have an advantage as Canon put a second DIGIC processor in there to do this processing in-camera.

Meanwhile, Panasonic in the GH5 reads the whole sensor, downscales the whole sensor, and compresses the image beautifully, up to 60p and potentially up to 180p (above 60p it's 1080 output so not sure if it still downscales the whole image).

You talk about how FF is the way to go and small sensors are no good, you hating on Canon for doing this is literally just the consequences of the larger sensor.