Canon EOS R7 and R10 have released...

[webrunner5]

I don't know of any Sony or Nilon FF camera that crops. Red has always cheated on their cameras. Overstating everything including DR. Nah Canon is just the only FF one doing it on mirrorless cameras. 

Sure, I can sort of see it when using digital stabilization.

[newfoundmass]

Tony Northrup said that he got 47 minutes before overheating indoors with air conditioning on fine mode. We'll see what others get. That's probably enough for a lot of folks, but not for me.

 

[herein2020]

5 hours ago, ntblowz said:

I think the R5 is also line skipping 4k60p? For music videos and general content it is totally fine, only when shooting real estate with some textured furniture you can see the pixel edges.  That's the only time I can see the inferior 4k60p.

 

And we only shoot RAW on one project, most of the time it's ipb or ipb light since editing ALL-I on Nas drive is totally no go.. it just make us all laggy (that is with 10gb ethernet and ssd priority drive) with 3 editors using at same time.

That's why I don't understand the people that are disappointed in a camera not having ALL-I. ALL-I has higher data rates than Canon Raw Lite but without the RAW benefits so I have never used it; there is no image quality improvements and the one time I tested it, it still was harder to edit than RAW footage so I've always found ALL-I to be pointless.

 

5 hours ago, ntblowz said:

 

I still think a R6C (or with R3 sensor) is actually the most sense for most people than R5C or even R7C. It will be like the A7S of Canon but with oversampled 4k and better lowlight than most Canon offering on video, battery life should better since the chip doesn't have to work very hard on 8K data, and RAW is not ridiculous large since it is only 5K for people like shooting RAW.

 

This is why I say I think Canon accidentally created the perfect hybrid camera.  The R6C would only be 20MP so trying to crop in or change the orientation of the image would greatly degrade it. Also, the "C" versions have a fan which is annoying for photography, makes the camera too bulky, shortens the battery life, and affects the weather sealing. 

If the R7 doesn't overheat, and the line skipped 4K60FPS is "good enough" then the R7 is very interesting for hybrid work. I always think of what would be the perfect run and gun travel camera and until now that for me was the S5, but if I had a trip tomorrow and could only bring one camera and needed photos and video it would be the R7.

The lowlight tests I've see for the R7 are plenty good enough for me, the only real question remaining is overheating. Even if it does overheat after say 40min or so of continuous recording, that would still work for me because for the long form work I would use the C70, for photography the R5, and for short clips or candid photos the R7. For events I would probably lock down the C70 for the main event and use the R7 for quick b-roll, detail shots, etc and candid crowd shots or when someone wanted a quick couples shot while I am filming video (that happens all the time).

 

5 hours ago, ntblowz said:

I recently finished a multicam project that shoot on 4k25/50p with 2 Panna and 2 Canon (500gb data), edit it on the cheapest mba m1 7gpu with 8gb and 256gb ssd and 2tb external ssd. I really pushed very hard on this little Mac lol. I didn't use proxy at all.

That's impressive results with the M1, I can't believe that NVIDIA's top GPU still cannot accelerate H.265 10bit 4:2:2 footage. I will not buy another GPU until one is released that can do this. 

[newfoundmass]

1 hour ago, herein2020 said:

That's impressive results with the M1, I can't believe that NVIDIA's top GPU still cannot accelerate H.265 10bit 4:2:2 footage. I will not buy another GPU until one is released that can do this. 

My M1 Pro 14inch MacBook Pro runs through everything, no problem at all. They're incredibly powerful machines. Editing 4 camera multicams with all angles color corrected and tweaked is a breeze. I've never been able to do that without proxies before, at least not 4K. I went with a modest build, too. 

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, herein2020 said:

If the R7 doesn't overheat, and the line skipped 4K60FPS is "good enough" then the R7 is very interesting for hybrid work. I always think of what would be the perfect run and gun travel camera and until now that for me was the S5, but if I had a trip tomorrow and could only bring one camera and needed photos and video it would be the R7.

I think if I was shopping today for a new system for my needs, I would also go for the R7 over the S5, purely for the much better AF.

But then, I'd probably go for the Fuji XH2s over the R7 because despite not seeing any direct head to head comparisons between these two (yet), I think as a former Fuji user for 10 years, that ecosystem would suit me better.

Other than the AF, all 3 would make for a great three way head to head, S5 vs R7 vs XH2s.

Even better, I think I'd stick the Sony A7iv in that mix for a 4way, being that it's compact and the 'same size' as the 3 others and crops it's 4k 60p.

Every single one of them would tick all my boxes for my needs except in two areas; the (tracking) AF of the S5 and the flip out screens that they all have. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaargh, I hate flip out screens on so many levels...

Right now, the flippy screen 'issue' aside, I think I'd have to go Fuji because as a hybrid shooter, one thing annoys me with my current set up and that is shooting FF stills alongside cropped video.

My next system, whatever it is, I would like the focal length to be the same when flipping between stills and video.

Right now, I'm mostly shooting Lumix S1R's as my hybrid units, with 35mm f2 on one and 65mm f2 on the other.

For stills, great. For video, great. But because I'm shooting pixel-pixel mode (no other viable option with the S1R's for my video work), then my 35mm is more like 50-55mm and my 65mm, something just over 100mm.

I don't mind/actually like these longer video focal lengths, but would rather I had parity between stills and video when shooting hybrid on the same camera.

My next system has 3 principal requirements:

1: Parity of focal length stills and video.

2: Tilt not flippy screen.

3: 3x identical bodies.

4: Good tracking AF.

I could compromise on a single element, but not planning on switching anything from my current set up until a system that ticks at minimum 3 of my 4 requirements exists.

As things stand, only the Fuji XH2s actually ticks the above box. If it only had a tilt screen...

[ntblowz]

I think R7 does pretty good fight on HQ 4K vs R5C, they both look equally sharp?

[kye]

13 hours ago, webrunner5 said:

I don't know of any Sony or Nilon FF camera that crops. Red has always cheated on their cameras. Overstating everything including DR. Nah Canon is just the only FF one doing it on mirrorless cameras. 

Sure, I can sort of see it when using digital stabilization.

A quick google for "Sony crop 60p" revealed this as the top hit, which lists a crop on both the A7S3 and the A74:

https://www.4kshooters.net/2022/03/04/shooting-full-frame-4k-60p-video-on-the-sony-a7-iv-no-crop/

Quote

A common limitation with newer (and generally more affordable) cameras is that higher frame rates require a crop mode. Sometimes this is minor, like how the a7S III crops in 10% for getting 4K at 120 fps, and other times it’s a significant change, like the a7 IV featured here which requires Super 35mm for 4K at 60 fps. There just might be a solution for the a7 IV’s crop.

If you search for Nikon instead you get this:

https://www.engadget.com/nikons-latest-z-6-ii-firmware-unlocks-4-k-60-fps-recording-110552464.html

Quote

One of the key new firmware features applies to the Z6 II only, however. You can now shoot 4K UHD video at up to 60 fps, rather than 30 fps as before. Nikon promised 4K 60p when the camera was launched (it's already available in the Z7 II), and it brings the Z6 II up to par with rival cameras like the Canon EOS R6. That setting will let you shoot 60p or 24/30p slo-mo with full autofocus, though the sensor will be cropped to a DX (roughly APS-C) size.

I'd recommend fact-checking your posts before you post them, rather than leaving others to do it, or to leave the people that don't do it to walk away with false information.

[webrunner5]

It's a 10% crop on the Sony, big deal. Ok the Nikon is a 1.5 crop. Also no big deal, nobody buys a Nikon anyways. Heck of a lot better than a 1.8, 1.7 crop on a Canon all the time.

 

[herein2020]

11 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I think if I was shopping today for a new system for my needs, I would also go for the R7 over the S5, purely for the much better AF.

But then, I'd probably go for the Fuji XH2s over the R7 because despite not seeing any direct head to head comparisons between these two (yet), I think as a former Fuji user for 10 years, that ecosystem would suit me better.

Other than the AF, all 3 would make for a great three way head to head, S5 vs R7 vs XH2s.

Even better, I think I'd stick the Sony A7iv in that mix for a 4way, being that it's compact and the 'same size' as the 3 others and crops it's 4k 60p.

Every single one of them would tick all my boxes for my needs except in two areas; the (tracking) AF of the S5 and the flip out screens that they all have. Aaaaaaaaaaaaaargh, I hate flip out screens on so many levels...

I am surprised you don't like tilt/flip screens, because they are so flimsy? I wasn't a fan either, especially for photography until I got the R5. I got in a few situations with my 5DIV where it was difficult to see the screen. When shooting real estate the camera needs to be placed in some really tight spaces sometimes and for those times I had to compromise the composition at times because I had no way to see the screen. I have also had to do very low product shots in the past and a flip screen would have been nice vs laying on the ground.

I do agree, the tilt flip seems very flimsy when it is out and turned, but I shot for yrs with the GH5 and S5 and got used to it. The R5 will be my first workhorse photography body with a tilt/flip screen, so far it has not bothered me. 

Now for video I feel the tilt flip screen is essential. I shoot a lot of runway shows and the photographers pit is very crowded, so I'm usually inches away from my video camera while it is free running while I also shoot photos, in those cases I flip the screen to the side and can check the camera and stop and start recording without moving. There is no room for an external monitor because it would block someone's view.

 

11 hours ago, MrSMW said:

I don't mind/actually like these longer video focal lengths, but would rather I had parity between stills and video when shooting hybrid on the same camera.

My next system has 3 principal requirements:

1: Parity of focal length stills and video.

2: Tilt not flippy screen.

3: 3x identical bodies.

4: Good tracking AF.

I could compromise on a single element, but not planning on switching anything from my current set up until a system that ticks at minimum 3 of my 4 requirements exists.

As things stand, only the Fuji XH2s actually ticks the above box. If it only had a tilt screen...

 

I don't think many vendors are going to meet your tilt only screen requirements. But I do think the R7 could meet the rest of them. Also, there's a rumor that an R7C could be released next year, personally I think the R7 as it is now is already good enough for the type of hybrid work that I do as long as it is paired with the C70.

I would be surprised though if you switch systems anytime soon, you have a pretty substantial Panasonic investment right now even the lenses if I recall correctly. For me switching back was easy because I kept all of my EF glass, but if I had lenses for any other mount I probably would have stuck with that system. Even for me now, I'm playing the EF adapter and speedbooster game, native RF glass would be just as expensive as switching systems.

[herein2020]

@MrSMW BTW, in case you haven't seen a runway show's photographers pit, here is a pretty good picture of one. Words can't really describe it until you have experienced it. Every sq inch counts and I'm already on everyone's bad list when I show up with both a video camera, video tripod, and a photography camera with a Canon EF 70-200 on it.

So yes, for video, the tilt/flip screen is essential for me.

 

[MrSMW]

Tilt screen, 100% yes.

It’s the flip out to the side I am not keen on.

But, flip out to the side is still better than no tilt at all such as with all Leica bodies and the Sigma FP.

I couldn’t switch camera system mid season, which is where I am right now and yes, do not actually that want to right now (but enjoy the hypothetical speculation!).

I’m hoping that any future changes to my set up will be within the L Mount Alliance for the smoothest transition, but as above, any change has to tick min 3/4 of my criteria because at the moment, I am only checking 1/4 🤔🤪

There are more than 4 requirements however and my current system checks all my needs, so the above are just ‘future’ requirements.

[Kisaha]

I am for tilt up/down too. It is the way I shoot too, I am always behind the camera, not in the sides, and when not, or stationary I use a Focus. When you are completely behind the camera can have a proper body stance that is easy to keep for a long time without your arm/shoulders do all the heavy lifting. Also, you do not use more space than your body already occupies, and is difficult for someone to knock/push/touch your camera while shooting.

The R7C will try to cut some of the GH6 and XH2S sales, and whatever other non full frame sensored camera will be outhere soon; as simple as that.

I am still considering if I buy my pre-ordered R7, I wish there wasn't a rumour, and I am not sure why to have that information leaked, when you haven't even sell properly the R7 yet. I am puzzled.

It seems that "smaller" sensors are trending again, and as a big fun of the convenience they bring, I am glad to see all these new options and solutions. E.g weight and size plays a big part in my decisions (lens's wise).

[gt3rs]

Tilt is useless on gimbal. I much prefer swivel for this reason and for remote camera as in many cases I cannot go behind the camera.

[kye]

On 7/2/2022 at 11:35 PM, webrunner5 said:

It's a 10% crop on the Sony, big deal. Ok the Nikon is a 1.5 crop. Also no big deal, nobody buys a Nikon anyways. Heck of a lot better than a 1.8, 1.7 crop on a Canon all the time.

....and a 1.5 crop on the Sony A7iv too...  I literally underlined and bolded it.

In terms of dealing with crops I'm totally with you, the last thing I want is for the fps to modify my entire lens collection.  I'd genuinely be interested in the Komodo if it wasn't for the horrific cropping it does.  I like to own the exact focal lengths I know that I like to use and so because I'm not buying the whole set I can buy really nice copies of those models - something that a series of crops just throws out the window.

But, like I've said, it seems like almost every manufacturer does it.

[kye]

@MrSMW @Kisaha What are your thoughts on the tilt only + flippy screens combinations, like the GH6 and S1H have?  They're bigger and chunkier, but do give the option for both.

Personally, I loved the tilt-only screen on the XC10 because it's so compact and linear with the camera but I also really appreciated the flippy screen on the GH5 for many moments where I wasn't able to be behind the camera and could use the camera from the side etc.

[herein2020]

6 hours ago, gt3rs said:

Tilt is useless on gimbal. I much prefer swivel for this reason and for remote camera as in many cases I cannot go behind the camera.

Exactly my experience as well, even with the Ronin RS2 where the rear servo motor is not blocking the screen, I still need tilt flip screens for complex gimbal movements such as low shots where the rear arms and servo motors would block the rear of the camera and crane movements where the final camera angle is overhead. 

Also, I find holding the camera much more stable and you can get the camera closer to your body when holding handheld if the screen is off to the side instead of between you and the camera. 

Also, my V-Mount battery goes directly behind the camera body for all long form content, without a flip screen the battery would have to sit farther back throwing off the balance of the rig, and last but not least, sometimes you need to twist and turn the screen until you find an angle where the sun is not glaring off of it.

But hey, to each their own. the good news is there's currently something for everyone. @MrSMW I will admit, there are times where I feel too many people are moving around too much or too close to the camera to feel comfortable with flipping it out, in those cases I just keep it flat against the rear of the camera. I would imagine at weddings with kids (and towards the end of the night drunks) it would be a little nerve wracking to have that screen flipped out.

Below is an example of my long form setup; parts of the screen would be very difficult to access if it did not flip out to the side. I was having trouble with my adapter plate in the picture below but usually the camera is nearly flush against the V-Mount battery which is the proper balance for the rig. Outdoors the glare from the sun is usually a good reason to flip it out and twist it in different directions.

 

[MrSMW]

5 hours ago, kye said:

 

@MrSMW @Kisaha What are your thoughts on the tilt only + flippy screens combinations, like the GH6 and S1H have?  They're bigger and chunkier, but do give the option for both.

 

The pinnacle of rear LCD design.

They can be left flat against the camera body and that would suit Leica users for whom the contraptions would be alien.

They can be used in tilt form only which is how I like to work 95% of the time.

They can be turned out 90 degrees sideways which I sometimes use if on a tripod backed hard up to a wall in a confined space, ie, I cannot get behind the camera.

They can be fully flipped out and forward facing for the vloggers and narcissists of the world.

They can also be flipped out sideways and used for no reason known to man in that manner.

As the band Hot Chocolate sang, everyone’s a winner baby.

The S1H is close to being ‘The Perfect Camera’. If it was just 10% lighter and had better AF tracking, it would take and wear that crown…factoring in used prices.

So much so that if old Pannyboy doesn’t pop out a next gen replacement before my next season next year, I will probably trade my pair of S1R’s and single S5 for another pair of S1H’s and run 3 of the things.

The S1R is an absolute steal (used prices) right now, but larger sensor aside, S1H edges it on the ergo side of things.

But I could equally make a Sony or Canon or Fuji based system work so it comes down to personal choice and where you want to make your compromise.

Flip out side only rear LCD’s are not a dealbreaker for me, - I’d just rather avoid them if I could because they do not really suit my way of working and to use a system that only had this style of screen, such as the S5, R5/6/7, Fuji XT4/XH2, would be a compromise for me.

[kye]

21 minutes ago, MrSMW said:

They can also be flipped out sideways and used for no reason known to man in that manner.

I use that mode to shoot around corners.  A common use is shots like this:

Personally, I find that trying to stand directly behind the camera in such situations to be quite problematic!

It's also good for shooting at a 90 degree angle when you can only just reach to put the camera around the corner, and can't stand any closer.  Sometimes good shots can be had in historic places by putting the camera and your arms through the bars of a locked gate or barred window etc and holding the camera ahead of you to shoot at an angle.  I've gotten some great high-angle shots by using this trick from tall buildings or pedestrian walk-ways that are fitted with bars to prevent people jumping or climbing where they shouldn't be.

[hyalinejim]

7 hours ago, kye said:

What are your thoughts on the tilt only + flippy screens combinations, like the GH6 and S1H have?

The GH6 screen only tilts up a tiny bit. It doesn't even get to 45 degrees. It's like a token gesture tilt!

[kye]

1 hour ago, hyalinejim said:

The GH6 screen only tilts up a tiny bit. It doesn't even get to 45 degrees. It's like a token gesture tilt!

Hmm, that's not what I would hope for.  How far does it tilt down?

Oh, and how far does it tilt up and down when also flipped out to the side?  I shoot high and low angles frequently and am looking at the camera from almost directly above or underneath.