Canon EOS R7 and R10 have released...

[FHDcrew]

1 minute ago, BTM_Pix said:

I had it on my P4K over two years ago.

The first two examples are regular in frame face detect AF but the third is what I call "Wide AF" where the detection happens outside of the host camera's field of view.

It also does all of the other things on your list and may well come to other people's cameras soon....

 

You mean you might bring back the AFX?  And could it be made to work with the Panasonic S5 or a GH5?  Any chance it will be available on Amazon or B&H?

[BTM_Pix]

It will be an add on to the AFX and a standalone.

It already works with any camera or lens with the addition of a €100 motor and a €5 gear ring on the lens.

Panasonic's external wifi control protocol is not granular enough or fast enough for the precision required for the AFX.

We might consider Amazon if Bezos uses the margin he would take off us to build some toilets for his employees who currently have to piss in a bottle.

 

[StephanieP]

Would you call a R10 a sideways improvement or an out right to upgrade to either the T7i or T8i or would one have to get R7 in order for it to be an upgrade? I think that both the T7i and T8i are great DSLRs. I had  an T8i for several years before got an RP but would consider getting either the R10 or the R7.

[Avenger 2.0]

Actually the R7 4k crop mode has an advantage, the Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 would become a ff eq. 28-100mm lens 😎

[webrunner5]

That would be a pretty dope walk around lens for sure.

[herein2020]

On 5/25/2022 at 1:32 PM, MrSMW said:

Actually I agree to an extent re. some of Canon’s stuff…

In fact if I wasn’t shooting what I am using, as I have said elsewhere, it would probably be a pair of R6’s and an R5.

 

I wouldn't trust a pair of R6's for a wedding unless you are shooting photography only with them. The R6 does not have any modes where it does not overheat and they still have the 30min recording limit.

That's why the R7 is so interesting to me, no recording limit and so far overheating seems to be somewhat under control.  Now that I have moved back to the Canon ecosystem (not that I ever really left due to my collection of EF glass),  I am thinking about picking up the R7 as an all-in-one travel photo/video camera and for personal use. Currently I use a Canon T6s for things like timelapses and when I travel for personal use. I pair the T6 with the FF Canon 24-105 F4.0 L lens but I never shot video with it since it only shoots in 1080p and is pretty terrible in low light.

I have some trips coming up and I've been asked to shoot some travel content but don't feel like lugging around the R5 or the C70. The R7 might be the camera I was waiting for.

I still don't understand Canon's decision to use 4:2:2 color sampling instead of 4:2:0 or why their cameras switch to H.265 when shooting in CLOG3. The combination of 4:2:2 and H.265 is impossible to HW accelerate on my editing workstation and I dislike making proxies (wastes time and no one mentions the power bill from leaving your editing workstation running all night). Based on the R7's detailed specs, this holds true for the R7 as well. The footage out of my C70 on the other hand is effortless to edit.

I am also concerned about the quality of the camera body. I was very disappointed in the R6, my R5 still doesn't come close to the workhorse build of my 5DIV, so I can only imagine what the body of the R7 will feel like. Panasonic of course is still cranking out magnesium bodies like the S5 but even that felt like a step down from the GH5.

According to the chart below, the R7 does have an uncropped 4K60FPS shooting mode, as long as that mode does not overheat, pairing this camera with a 24-105mm lens would give me a big upgrade over the Canon T6s for both photograhy and video.

[MrSMW]

2 hours ago, herein2020 said:

I wouldn't trust a pair of R6's for a wedding unless you are shooting photography only with them. The R6 does not have any modes where it does not overheat and they still have the 30min recording limit.

If I was…and I am not going to be any time soon, or ever, it would be:

Static video up to 30 mins max one R6.

Second R6, handheld, 10 second clips.

R5 exclusively stills.

But from what I understand, would probably switch out that first R6 now for an R7.

But none of it is compelling enough to switch from Panny other than the AF factor which is not that big a deal for me!

[Avenger 2.0]

4 hours ago, herein2020 said:

I am also concerned about the quality of the camera body. I was very disappointed in the R6, my R5 still doesn't come close to the workhorse build of my 5DIV, so I can only imagine what the body of the R7 will feel like. Panasonic of course is still cranking out magnesium bodies like the S5 but even that felt like a step down from the GH5.

The build quality will indeed be a downgrade when you compare Canon mirrorless to DSLR. While not as bad as Sony, Panasonic has certainly a better and more quality feel. Somehow all Canon mirrorless feel like Rebel series now 😆

[herein2020]

3 hours ago, Avenger 2.0 said:

The build quality will indeed be a downgrade when you compare Canon mirrorless to DSLR. While not as bad as Sony, Panasonic has certainly a better and more quality feel. Somehow all Canon mirrorless feel like Rebel series now 😆

 

I don't get it, its like when the electric cars first came out.....they were hideous so most people associated electric cars with a prerequisite to be hideous. I feel the same way about Canon's mirrorless; there seems to be a prerequisite to be the cheapest body possible just because it is mirrorless. My C70 is a big step down in body quality from my C200 and the R5 is an equally big step down in quality from my 5DIV.

[Django]

9 hours ago, herein2020 said:

I wouldn't trust a pair of R6's for a wedding unless you are shooting photography only with them. The R6 does not have any modes where it does not overheat and they still have the 30min recording limit.

R6 overheats less than R5 and when it happens there is a mode that'll let you keep shooting: FHD. 

Not ideal of course but the FHD is actually quite good. Obviously if money is no object: R5C is the way to go.

That said if FF isn't an absolute requirement the R7 could be a better choice than R6 as far as overheating.

9 hours ago, herein2020 said:

I still don't understand Canon's decision to use 4:2:2 color sampling instead of 4:2:0 or why their cameras switch to H.265 when shooting in CLOG3. The combination of 4:2:2 and H.265 is impossible to HW accelerate on my editing workstation and I dislike making proxies (wastes time and no one mentions the power bill from leaving your editing workstation running all night). Based on the R7's detailed specs, this holds true for the R7 as well. The footage out of my C70 on the other hand is effortless to edit.

Well I think the decision makes sense in that CLOG is much more useful in 10-bit 422 than any lower quality setting.

With any recent Mac (+M1) it edits perfectly fine. Definitely a problem though for older machines, you'll need to upgrade.

Interesting that your C70 footage doesn't behave the same. I wonder why that is? is it not also 10-bit 4:2:2 h265?

9 hours ago, herein2020 said:

I am also concerned about the quality of the camera body. I was very disappointed in the R6, my R5 still doesn't come close to the workhorse build of my 5DIV, so I can only imagine what the body of the R7 will feel like.

While I agree with you, there simply aren't many mirrorless systems out there that rival with the good old magnesium pro DSLRs. And obviously the cheaper the model, the cheaper the camera build.

That said, I've had zero issues with my R6. It handles well, is responsive, and despite a lighter feel it is solid, has survived being knocked over tripods and it's been brought into pretty extreme/harsh conditions shooting with firemen, snow, seawater etc. FWIW I've had camera failures with Nikon, Fuji & Sony. Never Canon. 

Obviously I'd feel much much more comfortable with an R3/1DX3 for those types of shoots but then again the R6 keeps on ticking for me so I keep pushing back the upgrade path (which is always good because new cameras keep coming out).

I haven't held an R7 but it appears somewhat on par with the rest of the lower/mid R range. I don't like the thumbwheel around the joystick.. but hey if you're upgrading from a Rebel T6 then it should def be a step up. 

[herein2020]

3 hours ago, Django said:

R6 overheats less than R5 and when it happens there is a mode that'll let you keep shooting: FHD. 

I thought all modes used the full sensor readout so even FHD would overheat; it must be all 4K modes then.

3 hours ago, Django said:

Not ideal of course but the FHD is actually quite good. Obviously if money is no object: R5C is the way to go.

That said if FF isn't an absolute requirement the R7 could be a better choice than R6 as far as overheating.

Well I think the decision makes sense in that CLOG is much more useful in 10-bit 422 than any lower quality setting.

With any recent Mac (+M1) it edits perfectly fine. Definitely a problem though for older machines, you'll need to upgrade.

I think if money is no object the C70 is the way to go over the R5C (in fact I made this exact decision when buying the C70). Obviously if you need a hybrid camera then yes the R5C would be the proper pick as long as you can carry a backpack full of batteries or come up with a USB-C PD setup.

I get that 10-bit 422 will offer some miniscule amount of quality improvement, but I thought the image out of the S5 was perfect and it shot in VLOG with 420. Canon has to have seen the feedback that 422 cannot be edited on older Macs and most if not all Intel/NVIDIA/AMD GPUs. I have an RTX2080Ti in my editing workstation and it cannot accelerate 422 H265. So all I am saying is that it would be great if Canon offered a 4K H.265 4:2:0 option as well; I would rather be able to easily edit the footage vs a miniscule increase in quality which would be impossible to even see on YouTube or cell phones.

The C70 XF-AVC footage edits perfectly on my workstation, no idea what is different about it vs non XF-AVC footage when it comes to HW acceleration.

My workstation is an Intel workstation so there is still no GPU video card upgrade option that will support H.265 10 bit 4:2:2 HW acceleration.

 

 

3 hours ago, Django said:

That said, I've had zero issues with my R6. It handles well, is responsive, and despite a lighter feel it is solid, has survived being knocked over tripods and it's been brought into pretty extreme/harsh conditions shooting with firemen, snow, seawater etc. FWIW I've had camera failures with Nikon, Fuji & Sony. Never Canon. 

Obviously I'd feel much much more comfortable with an R3/1DX3 for those types of shoots but then again the R6 keeps on ticking for me so I keep pushing back the upgrade path (which is always good because new cameras keep coming out).

I haven't held an R7 but it appears somewhat on par with the rest of the lower/mid R range. I don't like the thumbwheel around the joystick.. but hey if you're upgrading from a Rebel T6 then it should def be a step up. 

That is good to hear that you haven't had any issues with your R6.  The R7 would definitely be an upgrade from a Rebel T6, but I can't imagine a cheaper body than even the T6 and even the T6 had a top screen not that I ever use it. It is worth next to nothing so I might as well keep it as a timelapse camera. I am not a fan of the thumbwheel either, but still not as bad as that fn bar for the EOS R.

[newfoundmass]

1 hour ago, herein2020 said:

I get that 10-bit 422 will offer some miniscule amount of quality improvement, but I thought the image out of the S5 was perfect and it shot in VLOG with 420. Canon has to have seen the feedback that 422 cannot be edited on older Macs and most if not all Intel/NVIDIA/AMD GPUs. I have an RTX2080Ti in my editing workstation and it cannot accelerate 422 H265. So all I am saying is that it would be great if Canon offered a 4K H.265 4:2:0 option as well; I would rather be able to easily edit the footage vs a miniscule increase in quality which would be impossible to even see on YouTube or cell phones.

That's the thing that I kinda hate about camera companies focusing on 10-bit 422. That was absolutely one of the things that got me to go with the GH5, but I don't need it for EVERY project. 420 is fine for a lot of my work. Heck, I don't mind 8-bit for the jobs where I don't need to do much, if any, color grading.

The more options the better, IMO.

[herein2020]

6 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

That's the thing that I kinda hate about camera companies focusing on 10-bit 422. That was absolutely one of the things that got me to go with the GH5, but I don't need it for EVERY project. 420 is fine for a lot of my work. Heck, I don't mind 8-bit for the jobs where I don't need to do much, if any, color grading.

The more options the better, IMO.

I think only Canon forces you to use 422 for all of their 10bit modes and you are right, it is annoying to say the least. It is like the 8K in the R5....no one asked for 422 or 8K but that's what Canon went for and the result was endless overheating problems and footage that can't be edited on most computers.

I shot with 8bit and the GH5 for years, never had a problem as long as the WB was perfect and skin tones were properly lit. If I do end up traveling with the R5 I'll probably just shoot in 8bit so that I can actually edit the footage when I return.

[Avenger 2.0]

Quote

In the standard profiles, the R7 encodes video in 4:2:0 8-bit using H.264, but it also supports C-Log 3 and HDR-PQ which encode in 4:2:2 10 bit using H.265 HEVC and at slightly higher bit rates.

So if I understand correctly, you can still do 8-bit 4:2:0 using h.264 in all modes except when you enable C-Log 3 or HDR-PQ. While it is nice to have 10-bit 4:2:2 using h.265, will definitely need a new laptop/desktop with hardware support before I'll be using it.

[Emanuel]

On 6/18/2022 at 6:53 PM, herein2020 said:

 

 

 

Where have you extracted this from? :- )

[herein2020]

23 minutes ago, Emanuel said:

Where have you extracted this from? :- )

I got it from Pugent Systems, my favorite Davinci Resolve HW reference site. If you are into NVIDIA GPUs, a more complete list is here, but as you will see from that table, not a single NVIDIA GPU will accelerate H.265 10 bit 4:2:2.

 

 

[Kisaha]

This seems like an interesting release, and in my opinion Canon is back at the top right now, covering most needs of most people, like they used to do.

Does anyone have an opinion about ISO performance?

Also, do you believe you can zoom in while shooting video to check focus?

I like the GH6 release too, but I would like to re-introduce myself to Canon, after so many years.

Also, what is the EF - RF adapters situation?

Sorry for the too many questions, I was a bit out of the video equipment game for a little while as I was working on sound, and mainly as an assistant director for a TV series this last couple of years (so, many pens and stabilos!).

The Pocket 4K did well for the few projects I needed a camera, but I do not feel the same for the Pocket 6K, and I have to replace the myriad Samsungs I have with something more modern! (Still producing when needed though!).

[hyalinejim]

57 minutes ago, Kisaha said:

do you believe you can zoom in while shooting video to check focus

I too would love to be back shooting Canon, probably for sentimental reasons. But I highly doubt you'd be able to do this. Useful basic features, if present at all, like histogram and audio meters will probably also disappear as soon as you hit record 😂

Honestly, they should just change their name to "Cannot" and be done with it!

[Kisaha]

I found locally the EF to RF ND adapter for 430€, are there any other brands offering something similar? Isn't that too much?!

I have decided I will go to RF soon, maybe crop (sweet spot for me), maybe full frame (I am not a huge fun). I have a lot of EF glass too, and maybe a couple of the cheap primes will do for now..

[herein2020]

4 hours ago, Kisaha said:

This seems like an interesting release, and in my opinion Canon is back at the top right now, covering most needs of most people, like they used to do.

Does anyone have an opinion about ISO performance?

Also, do you believe you can zoom in while shooting video to check focus?

I like the GH6 release too, but I would like to re-introduce myself to Canon, after so many years.

Also, what is the EF - RF adapters situation?

Sorry for the too many questions, I was a bit out of the video equipment game for a little while as I was working on sound, and mainly as an assistant director for a TV series this last couple of years (so, many pens and stabilos!).

The Pocket 4K did well for the few projects I needed a camera, but I do not feel the same for the Pocket 6K, and I have to replace the myriad Samsungs I have with something more modern! (Still producing when needed though!).

 

I agree with you, I went to Panasonic and the GH5 then the S5 for the past few years because Canon was so disappointing. Well now I'm back in force with the C70 and R5. I had too much EF glass to go far, and Panasonic with adapted EF lenses destroyed what little AF they had to start with.

I have the C70 with the speedbooster and it is fantastic especially with the extra stop of light. For the R5 I have the EF to RF straight through adapter; the ND filter version was insanely expensive and I mainly got the R5 for photography anyway to replace my 5DIV. Plus with photography, I typically just need a 2 stop or 4 stop which takes seconds to screw onto the lens one time.

As far as ISO performance, I feel like any modern camera will do just fine in lowlight for social media content; noise is invisible on cell phones at 480P which is how most people will view most social media content. Obviously if you are looking for something for larger productions then a different camera would be a better fit. Only us videographer types really care about things like noise and DR and lowlight performance.

TBH, I know I'm going to sound like a total Canon fanboy here for a second, but the AF with the R5 and even the C70 is so good (light years above anything I had with the GH5 and S5) that I don't need to punch in to check focus while filming. The R5 with eye tracking AF has completely changed the way I shoot photography (no more focusing then recomposing and hoping the subject doesn't fall into the edge distortion territory of the lens), and the R7 supposedly has even better AF than the R5 (taken from the R3). Also, their proprietary focus peaking system with the 3 little triangles really helps more than focus peaking highlights ever did for me with the Panasonic bodies.

Of course its not all perfect, Panasonic is way better about giving you an easier color subsampling option (420) that can be HW accelerated, and Panasonic gives you a WFM, the electronic level stays visible while filming, the XLR audio module is reasonably priced (and native), and the body quality ahead of Canon's current cameras. 

Even with the R5 every useful filming tool disappears when you press record, the body quality is disappointing compared to my 5D4, no WFM, and no multi-function shoe for higher quality audio (the R7 does have the multi-function shoe but the Tascam adapter is pretty expensive).