RED Files Lawsuit Against Nikon

[BTM_Pix]

I mentioned in the other thread that I might download the v2.0 internal RAW firmware update for the Z9 even though I don't own the camera yet in case RED sued them.......

RED have today filed a lawsuit against Nikon for patent infringement.

https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/California_Central_District_Court/8--22-cv-01048/Red.com_LLC_v._Nikon_Corporation_et_al/1/

I'm guessing we are all Larry David hearing of this in no way entirely predictable turn of events 🙂 

 

Z9 firmware update here if you want to get there before the lawyers.

https://downloadcenter.nikonimglib.com/en/download/fw/444.html

[PannySVHS]

Holy cow! Is it the internal Prores Raw or the Nikon Raw or both, these are the questions.

Will people sell their Z9 beauties now for the price of a used Canon 1DC? Hold it, Canon.. Komodo. I smell a plot here.

[M_Williams]

1 hour ago, PannySVHS said:

Holy cow! Is it the internal Prores Raw or the Nikon Raw or both, these are the questions.

It's the N-RAW.

[webrunner5]

Pro Res Raw, that is an Apple thing, not Red thing. I would imagine Nikon is paying Apple a license fee to use it?

[newfoundmass]

My guess is RED is probably trying to force them into "license" the technology, presumably like they did with Apple. 

Is there any benefit to using N-RAW over ProRes RAW? 

[M_Williams]

29 minutes ago, newfoundmass said:

My guess is RED is probably trying to force them into "license" the technology, presumably like they did with Apple. 

Is there any benefit to using N-RAW over ProRes RAW? 

You can only shoot ProRes RAW up to like 4.1K (or thereabouts, I can't remember exactly). N-RAW allows up to 8.3K.

[webrunner5]

1 hour ago, newfoundmass said:

My guess is RED is probably trying to force them into "license" the technology, presumably like they did with Apple. 

Is there any benefit to using N-RAW over ProRes RAW? 

I am not sure Red has ever let anyone do their thing. There sort of locked in Redraw by patenting every kind of compression known to mankind and then some.

[sanveer]

Patent and IP Corruption in the United Stated is just monumental. Disney has been drinking the blood of customers since forever. And thanks to the rampant bribery, many of these corporations are more powerful than Senators and Governors. 

[D Verco]

3 hours ago, newfoundmass said:

Is there any benefit to using N-RAW over ProRes RAW? 

Much smaller file size

[Andrew Reid]

TicoRAW is the basis of N-RAW.

So we are talking very similar compression ratios to RED, up to 16:1

Could it be possible they will keep N-RAW but just switch off the compression?

https://www.eoshd.com/raw-video/what-are-the-details-of-nikons-new-cinema-8k-4k-raw-codec-on-the-z9/

By the way the early Z9 bodies with 2.0 firmware have the potential to go to sky high prices so if you want one and find one in stock don't hesitate! I already can't find one for less than £6700 on eBay.

[ND64]

Its like Russian invasion of Ukraine in fear of NATO Expansion (RAW recording for all). Its an unwinnable war for Ukraine, but I hope they win.

 

[Nikkor]

Red....

[webrunner5]

Oh I think Ukraine has already won the war. Putin Really screwed up on this bone headed decision. Not sure Russia will ever recover from it, and Russia has lost the false narrative that their Army was strong and advanced. There will be more and more countries join NATO down the road and Russia will be boxed in forever. Putin has thrown all the people in Russia under the bus I am afraid.

I think down the road Russia will even loose what it already had in Ukraine. They will be driven out.

[HurtinMinorKey]

12 hours ago, sanveer said:

Patent and IP Corruption in the United Stated is just monumental. Disney has been drinking the blood of customers since forever. And thanks to the rampant bribery, many of these corporations are more powerful than Senators and Governors. 

A few things. RED isn't a troll, they are an innovator who actually commercializes the patents they claim,  and they should be able to benefit from spending the time/resources to make those inventions (assuming the patents are valid).  That's not to say trolls aren't a problem in other areas, but more so this isn't one of those cases. It's not always the case, but trolls are typically non-practicing entities (they don't practice the technology they are claiming is patented).  

Also, Disney exploits copyrights, which is a whole other beast. Patents expire after ~20 years, which seems like a reasonable amount of time to benefit from an innovation (and thus to incentivize new innovations).  Copyrights now last ~100 years, which is utterly insane, and completely detached from any notion of rewarding artists for their work (to incentivize the creation of new works).  It's also sick that Disney seems to be able to get copyrights extended any time any of their main IP approaches the public domain (and in this light, I  agree with your point about the corruption, or at least complicity, of public officials). 

 

[Andrew Reid]

Indeed RED were a pioneer with REDcode. Graeme Nattress did what the Japanese camera companies like Sony didn't bother with or even attempt.

They should be rewarded and there are other solutions like BRAW that avoid the patent infringement.

So why doesn't Nikon implement BRAW or license a similar technology and call it N-RAW?

In other words why doesn't Nikon get a clue?

Or is their intent to purposefully infringe RED's patent before countersuing as they know they have a bargaining chip and that RED have infringed their patents on sensor design or whatever?

I know it's shit for us and it doesn't generate much good will for RED in the industry and with customers.

A middle ground should be reached at this point, it's gone on long enough.

RED should license the technology and Nikon should pay up for it.

[Nikkor]

The great innovation is "using common image compression algorithms before debayering"?, the world should worship RED forever.

[Andrew Reid]

They were first to do it though weren't they, whilst the big corporations snoozed!

[ND64]

31 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

They were first to do it though weren't they, whilst the big corporations snoozed!

Big corporations couldn't even imagine someone would patent the idea of saving RAW file.

[Nikkor]

39 minutes ago, Andrew Reid said:

They were first to do it though weren't they, whilst the big corporations snoozed!

24 times per second?

[RawZion]

Thank you so much for posting that firmware.  I've been wanting the Z9, but have held back as I get by fine with my Z6.  If I become much more prosperous in the future however, I would love to record raw internally in it (I have an Atomos NinjaV for my Z6 and it's just a terrible experience trying to get the HDMI cable to stay locked in, plus there are delays and crops and limits on frame rates)